israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

[SamurAchzar]

Israeli officials were asked, why haven't you disabled the ships mid-sea. They said that they didn't want to deal with the humanitarian crisis that would ensue, being that dragging them to port from 130 miles away would have taken lots of time. So Israel handled this in the most reasonable way possible, and it is still condemned.
The recordings show that long after the mob attacked the commandos, their chief ordered to move to live fire. Together with the face that no one got scratched on the other ships, it just shows that Israel tried to defuse the situation in the most humane and gentle way possible.

As opposed to the PR carnage some claimed will ensue, I see many unusual faces in P&N supporting the Israeli action. I think the footage from IDF made all the difference, together with the understanding that the operation was perfectly legal. The main outcome is the recognition of the self-proclaimed "peace activists" that took part in this flotilla as Jihadist animals, and liars to boot.

Originally Posted by ayabe

In reality things are never as black and white as they seem, yet it's the for us or against us mentality your team. When Israel crosses the line they should be held accountable and I believe the same applies to the US. When we don't stand up for the rule of law we lose credibility with the rest of the world. Anyone lamenting the reduced political power of the US in the world ought to be catching on to this by now, it's not because Obama bows or occasionally apologizes when we've fucked up, it's because we are the biggest hypocrites in the world and aren't worth listening to anymore.

At least be fair and admit that the raid was conducted in compliance with international law. It might or might not have been necessary, or perhaps not well executed, but there was no foul play here.

The situation regarding the Gaza strip is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Israel can not allow Hamas, which is an ideological sister to the Taliban, free reign. Fatah yes, Hamas no. However it does nothing to affect the chain of events this time around.

 

[SamurAchzar]

For shits and giggles, the knives found on board the Marmara:

They probably made tons of salad on that vessel :hmm:

 

[Narmer]

wasn't able to turn up any verification of it via google.

http://www.economist.com/world/middle-east/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15913000

Israel’s prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, once a fierce advocate of hitting back as hard as possible, has slightly eased the siege, while not promising to lift it altogether. This month he opened the crossings to trucks of glass, wood and aluminium. Held up in containers in the Israeli port of Ashdod since 2007, the first batch of shoes and clothes, most of them soiled, finally began to arrive in the strip.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Probe reveals flotilla lynchers have ties to Global Jihad
(Video) Interrogation of Gaza aid sail detainees reveals some of passengers recruited specifically to attack Israeli soldiers. Suspects found to be carrying multiple weapons, cash. Meanwhile, Navy launches its own inquiry into raid
Ron Ben-Yishai
Latest Update: 06.02.10, 00:45 / Israel News
VIDEO - The ongoing interrogation of passengers who were aboard the Marmara – the Gaza aid flotilla's flagship – revealed that the majority of those who attacked the Israeli Naval Commandos boarding the ship have direct and indirect Global Jihad ties.

Israel's investigation has revealed some 100 people infiltrated the peace and humanitarian aid activists making their way to Gaza, with the explicit design to attack Israeli soldiers using cold arms.

The majority of suspects are Turks, but some are Yemenites and Indonesian. One Yemenite Islamist was photographed with a dagger in his belt prior to the raid.

The suspects are not cooperating with investigators. Most of them have no identification papers, and Israeli authorities are still trying to ascertain their identity.

Nevertheless, it is clear that the majority were recruited by the same IHH handler who organized the flotilla.

IHH is a Turkish humanitarian relief fund with a radical Islamic anti-Western orientation.

Some of the suspects were found to be carrying large sums of money. Others had Kevlar vests and gas masks; and all were found to be carrying weapons such as knives, metal clubs and slingshots.

Several of the suspected were wounded by IDF fire.

Investigators have already concluded that this was the group that planned the violent resistance, which centered on the Marmara's top deck.

Meanwhile, the Israel Navy has launched its own inquiry into the raid. Senior officers told yet events probably went awry when the commandos lost the element of surprise – especially in regards to the people waiting on the top deck.

A senior IDF official said Tuesday night that "everything should be done in order to gather all the factual data and prove that the humanitarian sail had a semi-military body with a completely different goal."

The officer added that the army was "working on it vigorously. We understand the importance not just for the Navy but for all of us."

Addressing the foreign detainees suspected of beating up Navy fighters during the raid, the officer said, "If we manage to create a criminal case against some people, we should act against them in a proper legal manner."


He denied reports that the IDF did not provide medical aid to the injured foreign activists.

As for the next ship making its way to Gaza, the official said that the method of action would be determined after the lessons of the recent incident are drawn.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897667,00.html

Nice to see the Jihadists and the people who support them through "peaceful activism" converge.

 

[Narmer]

For shits and giggles, the knives found on board the Marmara:

They probably made tons of salad on that vessel :hmm:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm

Speaking as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket, Mr Paech, a member of a German opposition party, said Israel's operation "was not an act of self-defence".

"Personally I saw two-and-a-half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Israeli propaganda vs. activist propaganda. I'm not sure who to believe but I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[SamurAchzar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm



Israeli propaganda vs. activist propaganda. I'm not sure who to believe but I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Look at the IDF video and count the sticks waved in the air. There was another footage (shot by Al Jazeera, no less) showing an activist stabbing a commando.

 

[Perknose]

For shits and giggles, the knives found on board the Marmara:

They probably made tons of salad on that vessel :hmm:

Yeah, preparing food for 600 plus people on a sea voyage wouldn't require any cutlery at all, would it?

But, HEY, that rusty saw looks particularly vicious. 🙄

I can hear the attack cry now, "Please place your head in this vise and allow me to clamp it tightly, Jewish Dog, my saw is not well maintained and this will take a while, praise Allah, ulululululululullululululu!"

If THAT was all the "armament" they could come up with, it doesn't make much of a case for any pre-planned attempt at violence, does it?

 

[PJABBER]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897667,00.html

Nice to see the Jihadists and the people who support them through "peaceful activism" converge.

I will bet that the large majority of the people on that boat that have thus far failed to identify themselves are no "peace" activists, but are active members of jihadist organizations.

If the Israelis can identify the specific persons that attacked the soldiers that were fast-roping in, they will find that all of them are not "peace" activists at all.

They should post their photos, names, home countries and the organizations they come from. And then identify what those organizations are all about and who funds them.

All in the name of full and truthful exposure, of course.

 

[PJABBER]

Yeah, preparing food for 600 plus people on a sea voyage wouldn't require any cutlery at all, would it?

But, HEY, that rusty saw looks particularly vicious. 🙄

I can hear the attack cry now, "Please place your head in this vise and allow me to clamp it tightly, Jewish Dog, my saw is not well maintained and this will take a while, praise Allah, ulululululululullululululu!"

If THAT was all the "armament" they could come up with, it doesn't make much of a case for any pre-planned attempt at violence, does it?

Hey, about a dozen men with BOX CUTTERS were able to take down three airliners on 9/11.

I invite anyone on this board to take at least one solid, full force whack on an arm or a leg or a skull with a four foot length of steel pipe or some rebar and figure out if that would fit into the category of being a lethal weapon.

Now imagine having ten men hitting you over and over again with such innocuous objects. Feelin' fine yet?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Yeah, preparing food for 600 plus people on a sea voyage wouldn't require any cutlery at all, would it?

But, HEY, that rusty saw looks particularly vicious. 🙄

I can hear the attack cry now, "Please place your head in this vise and allow me to clamp it tightly, Jewish Dog, my saw is not well maintained and this will take a while, praise Allah, ulululululululullululululu!"

If THAT was all the "armament" they could come up with, it doesn't make much of a case for any pre-planned attempt at violence, does it?

Perhaps the traditional kitchen of La La Land necessitates the use of daggers to make food - certainly it is not very widely used in the culinary I know.

 

[yllus]

I can hear the attack cry now, "Please place your head in this vise and allow me to clamp it tightly, Jewish Dog, my saw is not well maintained and this will take a while, praise Allah, ulululululululullululululu!"

LOL, top notch material Perk. 😀

 

[Perknose]

Hey, about a dozen men with BOX CUTTERS were able to take down three airliners on 9/11.

Box cutters trumped surprised and unarmed civilian passengers on a plane. Decidedly NOT the weapon of choice to face Israeli commandos.

Just saying. 404 Evidence of pre-planned violent resistance not yet found.

 

[Narmer]

If Israel keeps this up, they can forget about ever stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons and, like Israel to South Africa, selling it to Syria later on. I mean, attacking humanitarian ships in order to continue to starve the Palestinians in Gaza into giving up the captured soldier or start an uprising against Hamas is just par for the course for Israel: focusing on its short-term interest at the expense of its long term interest, which is extremely stupid. The situation in the West Bank is slightly better, but with all the choking road-blocks, that's a very relative term.

Finally, I cannot name names but I know of a few people in the U.S. Government that would love to see Iran getting a nuclear weapon so it can justify American presence in the region and the selling of American military equipment to those weak Arabs who will become ever more reliant on us. It's a win for the United States but a huge danger for Israel, which cannot afford the spreading of nukes in such a volatile region. But her actions in the Palestinian territories undermine her interests in preventing this very dangerous future and she does not give her rational supporters in America much reason to prevent that.

 

[JSt0rm]

i dont see pre-planned violence but I see retarded stupid people caught up in the moment of hating these soldiers. You dont beat on somebody who has a gun. Muslim, jew, christian, Buddhist (well maybe you could beat on a Buddhist with a gun) does not matter

 

[JS80]

If Israel keeps this up, they can forget about ever stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons and, like Israel to South Africa, selling it to Syria later on. I mean, attacking humanitarian ships in order to continue to starve the Palestinians in Gaza into giving up the captured soldier or start an uprising against Hamas is just par for the course for Israel: focusing on its short-term interest at the expense of its long term interest, which is extremely stupid. The situation in the West Bank is slightly better, but with all the choking road-blocks, that's a very relative term.

Finally, I cannot name names but I know of a few people in the U.S. Government that would love to see Iran getting a nuclear weapon so it can justify American presence in the region and the selling of American military equipment to those weak Arabs who will become ever more reliant on us. It's a win for the United States but a huge danger for Israel, which cannot afford the spreading of nukes in such a volatile region. But her actions in the Palestinian territories undermine her interests in preventing this very dangerous future and she does not give her rational supporters in America much reason to prevent that.

You sound like you're rooting for Iran to develop and sell nukes so they can complete their final solution of wiping Israel off the map.

But to the point, Iran will attempt to develop nukes whether Israel decides to bend over and take it up the ass or not.

 

[SamurAchzar]

If Israel keeps this up, they can forget about ever stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons and, like Israel to South Africa, selling it to Syria later on. I mean, attacking humanitarian ships in order to continue to starve the Palestinians in Gaza into giving up the captured soldier or start an uprising against Hamas is just par for the course for Israel: focusing on its short-term interest at the expense of its long term interest, which is extremely stupid. The situation in the West Bank is slightly better, but with all the choking road-blocks, that's a very relative term.

It could all be true had a nuclear Iran been the exclusive problem of Israel. Right now, it worries Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states even more than it worries Israel (it's just that they can't express themselves as fiercely as Israel does). The last thing Dubai, Qatar and the rest want right now is to get under the Iranian sphere of influence. IMHO Israelis have been too vocal about this issue.

Anyway, even if Iran has nukes, the day-to-day damage it would inflict on Israel is pretty small compared to what a well-armed Hamas can cause.

 

[JS80]

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=related

Close up footage of the first soldier landing and then getting tossed. Yea, peaceful activists, right?

It amazes me how people can argue so long about the facts. The fact of the matter is that Israel has the legal right to defend itself, it boarded the ship legally with nothing but paintball guns and handguns, and then "peaceful activists" funded by and funding terrorist and Jihaadist organizations strike back with force--some are killed.

Why should this feed anti-Israel feelings?



Good post by PJ, but what people don't get is that most Palestinians are manipulated and bullied by organizations like Hamas and the Ba'ath party. These organizations don't want peace, they want to dominate, like they did in the old days when women were sex slaves (although leftist feminists conveniently forget that bit) and people were held in line by force, not through a social contract engineered in Western Civilization.

Wait, the paintball gun thing was literal? WTF are they doing with paintball guns?

 

[Narmer]

You sound like you're rooting for Iran to develop and sell nukes so they can complete their final solution of wiping Israel off the map.

But to the point, Iran will attempt to develop nukes whether Israel decides to bend over and take it up the ass or not.

Coming from you, I'm not surprised at your interpretation. All I'm saying is that some people see an opportunity in every crisis, even if that means an ally is put in a very dangerous and precarious position. At the same time, our ally is not helping matter by resolving a situation that can put it in a position of true power.

 

[JSt0rm]

Wait, the paintball gun thing was literal? WTF are they doing with paintball guns?

THey probably shoot those pepperball things that sting.

 

[werepossum]

Interesting post, but here is the problem... who in this world is really held accountable for crossing the line? How many Arab nations are held accountable for when they cross the line? How many European nations are held accountable when they cross the line. What about African countries... the only nation I see people frantically lobbying against is Israel. Why is that? Does Israel cross the line more than say Syria? or Russia, or Saudi Arabia?... Why is it we are so focused on criticizing Israel for every minute mistake... and yet so blissfully unaware of the continuous human rights violations of China? The hypocrisy in that absolutely boggles my mind.

As for the USA... We really aren't the biggest hypocrites in the world... we're just the biggest influence in the world... and we're no more or less hypocritical than everyone else.

Very good points.

 

[Narmer]

It could all be true had a nuclear Iran been the exclusive problem of Israel. Right now, it worries Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states even more than it worries Israel (it's just that they can't express themselves as fiercely as Israel does). The last thing Dubai, Qatar and the rest want right now is to get under the Iranian sphere of influence. IMHO Israelis have been too vocal about this issue.

Anyway, even if Iran has nukes, the day-to-day damage it would inflict on Israel is pretty small compared to what a well-armed Hamas can cause.

Thanks for proving my point. You readily admit that an Iranian bomb will frighten our allies and would bring them closer to us. You also focus on Hamas as if it isn't a transitory force that was born out of the intifada (at Israel's blessing in 1987-8 which supports my point of Israel choosing short-termism over long term interests, a stupid mistake). Hamas can go away if the Palestinians wanted it to just as Al Qaeda in Iraq mostly went away in the Sunni Triangle when the Arabs there rised up against it.

You also downplay the threat of a nuclear holocaust (pun intended) in the Middle East and what having one's fate determined by someone else does to the psyche of the nation of Israel. Like I said, par for the course.

 

[jpeyton]

Wow. This story just gets bigger and bigger, like an avalanche rolling down a mountain. Over 11,000 articles on Google News, many hundreds of replies on forum discussions.

I think we can safely say, the flotilla accomplished their mission. The Gaza blockade went from a back-page blurb to a front-page Israeli blunder.

 

[Lemon law]

Tell me all about it, Israel has an inalienable human right to be jack booted thugs. Extra Extra read all about it, on newspapers all over the world.

And while we can all understand that various Israeli fan clubbers will rally around the right of Israel to be jack booted thugs, its not exactly how this story has played out world wide.

If Israel has no regard for Palestinian human rights, the rest of the world is now simply saying its time for the rest of the world to make up for that Israeli deficit.

 

[theeedude]

For shits and giggles, the knives found on board the Marmara:

They probably made tons of salad on that vessel :hmm:

Clearly those were weapons smuggled into Gaza to be thrown over the fence at Israel. 😀

 

[SamurAchzar]

Wow. This story just gets bigger and bigger, like an avalanche rolling down a mountain. Over 11,000 articles on Google News, many hundreds of replies on forum discussions.

I think we can safely say, the flotilla accomplished their mission. The Gaza blockade went from a back-page blurb to a front-page Israeli blunder.

So it all comes down to gloating, regardless of whether Israel's actions were legal and justifiable?