Israel will not extend settlement freeze.

[Lemon law]

George Mitchell left Israel without getting even a one or two month extension of the settlement freeze.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/world/middleeast/02mideast.html?ref=middleeas

Now the world waits for Abbas to consult the PLO and the Arab league before making a decision on continuing what may be a Israeli farce of peace talks. Should Abbas withdraw, the question is will various powers finally be ready to do something effective against Israel or not.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I might actually have to make a macro on my keyboard to write the this:

LL, Stop making new threads every time an issue with israel comes up and/or you realize you have lost an argument completely in another thread. Every time you put these new threads up, you are simply going to get humiliated repeatably

Edit: ah hell, made it because I know u

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

George Mitchell left Israel without getting even a one or two month extension of the settlement freeze.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/world/middleeast/02mideast.html?ref=middleeas

Now the world waits for Abbas to consult the PLO and the Arab league before making a decision on continuing what may be a Israeli farce of peace talks. Should Abbas withdraw, the question is will various powers finally be ready to do something effective against Israel or not.

I don't get what the peace talks could possibly lead to anywoay since Abbas isn't the elected leader of Palestine.

There was a democratic election, let's see the democratic leaders come to a meeting, if for no other reason to arrest them like we would any other leader of a terrorist organisation.

In short, this doesn't matter, at all, if the Palestinians can't and won't lay their weapons down, real peace talks can never be had. PLO did it, it's time for Hamas and their branches to do the same because their actions only lead to Palestinians dying.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I don't get what the peace talks could possibly lead to anywoay since Abbas isn't the elected leader of Palestine.

There was a democratic election, let's see the democratic leaders come to a meeting, if for no other reason to arrest them like we would any other leader of a terrorist organisation.

In short, this doesn't matter, at all, if the Palestinians can't and won't lay their weapons down, real peace talks can never be had. PLO did it, it's time for Hamas and their branches to do the same because their actions only lead to Palestinians dying.

Hamas will never put its arms down because it is a proxy of Iran which gives it funds to survive.

Hezbollah wouldnt exist either if Iran didnt fund it.

No Iran, though, then Israel can have peace, since syria or lebanon wont be clinging to iran's axis.

and i am pretty sure Saudi Arabia doesnt want to lose the US's money or weapons

 

[JEDIYoda]

Now the world waits -- earth to Lemon Law -- the world does not wait!! maybe 80% of the world does NOT care! for Abbas to consult the PLO and the Arab league before making a decision on continuing what may be a Israeli farce of peace talks. Keep dreaming!! In your make believe world you honestly believe that hamas wants anything to do with a truce???Should Abbas withdraw, the question is will various powers finally be ready to do something effective against Israel or not. let`s pretend that Abbas does withdraw -- THE WORLD WILL DO NOTHING!! Nobody is going to step up to the plate and Police that portion of the world!!

As Freshgeardude stated -- you get totally abused by the true facts! We called you on your lying about the UN Charter!! We called you on your inaccurate use of the word "genocide"........it is sad to see that the only thing you can do now is sit back and continue to be humiliated!! Even your supporters have grown tired of the lies and mis-information!

 

[Lemon law]

Hamas will never put its arms down because it is a proxy of Iran which gives it funds to survive. ( Hamas are not part of the talks)

Hezbollah wouldnt exist either if Iran didnt fund it.( Hezbollah are not part of the Talks )

No Iran, though, then Israel can have peace, since syria or lebanon wont be clinging to iran's axis. ( Iran, Syria, and Lebanon are not part of the talks)

and i am pretty sure Saudi Arabia doesnt want to lose the US's money or weapons

( Saudi Arabia is not part of the talks, but I believe Saudi Arabia is part of the Arab League who will have a part in Abbas's decision. And your other assumption may be wrong, if the USA does not back Israel to the hilt, Saudi Arabia risks no oil money and weapons. Egypt has already weighed in saying that if the the Israelis do not extend
the settlement freeze and the talks collapse, the onus will be on Israel.

In short FGD, the subsequent events will be driven by the Israeli refusal to extend the freeze. How those events play out remain to be seen. But ole Lieberman really dealt a blow to Israeli credibility on 9/29.

 

[Freshgeardude]

( Saudi Arabia is not part of the talks, but I believe Saudi Arabia is part of the Arab League who will have a part in Abbas's decision. And your other assumption may be wrong, if the USA does not back Israel to the hilt, Saudi Arabia risks no oil money and weapons. Egypt has already weighed in saying that if the the Israelis do not extend
the settlement freeze and the talks collapse, the onus will be on Israel.

In short FGD, the subsequent events will be driven by the Israeli refusal to extend the freeze. How those events play out remain to be seen. But ole Lieberman really dealt a blow to Israeli credibility on 9/29.

I was talking about the greater picture.

peace in the region.

Lebanon without hezbollah has, in recent years, not been hateful of israel, AND was (if i recall correctly) a few days or weeks away from signing a peace agreement between the two before the syrians assassinated the lebanese leader.

syria, with backing of the US, turkey, jordan, and egypt, while breaking ties from iran can make peace with israel.



Oh please, egypt isnt about to jump ship on its treaty with israel over this issue.



stop living in a dream world.


LL, stop making new threads every time an issue with israel comes up and/or you realize you have lost an argument completely in another thread. Every time you put these new threads up, you are simply going to get humiliated repeatably

LL, stop making new threads every time an issue with israel comes up and/or you realize you have lost an argument completely in another thread. Every time you put these new threads up, you are simply going to get humiliated repeatably

LL, stop making new threads every time an issue with israel comes up and/or you realize you have lost an argument completely in another thread. Every time you put these new threads up, you are simply going to get humiliated repeatably

 

[JEDIYoda]

( Saudi Arabia is not part of the talks, but I believe Saudi Arabia is part of the Arab League who will have a part in Abbas's decision. The Arab league does NOT care about the talks....I am sure if the Arab league cares about the talks you can provide a link stating they care?? Or is it just your wishful thinking??
And your other assumption may be wrong, if the USA does not back Israel to the hilt, Saudi Arabia risks no oil money and weapons. Egypt has already weighed in saying that if the the Israelis do not extend. -- Egypt will not throw out there peace agreement with Israel! More wishful thinking on your part...
the settlement freeze and the talks collapse, the onus will be on Israel.-- as usual the Palestinians can do no wrong..lolol
In short FGD, the subsequent events will be driven by the Israeli refusal to extend the freeze. How those events play out remain to be seen. But ole Lieberman really dealt a blow to Israeli credibility on 9/29.

More wishful thinking!! This is comedic gold!! Not bad reading in the morning with a cup of coffee!!

 

[EagleKeeper]

And why should the Arab league have any input on the Palestinians wanting peace?
They initially provided a framework that would benefit the Arab/Pals as a publicity stunt.
the PAls did not take it and press forward; they sat back and did nothing. Now they need to talk to the Arab league - about what? Approval - who is trying for peace - the Arabs or the Pals?

Unless they are admitting that they are puppets that can not stand on their own and still are not ready to make their own decisions.

Israel put a freeze on the settlements for 10 months in order to get the Pals to come to the table. The Pals waited until the last moment to show and then want Israel to continue the freeze as a condition for even being there. Where were they for the first 8 months? And why did it take so long to get to the table? A long walk across the street?

Detour to avoid the world embargo on Israel?

 

[Lemon law]

To Common Courtesy who asks a number of different questions,

The main thing the world is worried about NOW regarding mid-east peace is that Israel talks and talks and stalls and stalls while building settlement on land its does not own. And as we see in the 9/29 Lieberman speech to the UN, these settled land will not be given back as Israel will demand retaining them. In short, as long as settlements continue, its advantage for Israel to talk and stall. If settlements are frozen, neither side gains an advantage by stalling.

Israel really showed it was two faced at Annapolis, and now that settlements have resumed, I am not going to try to justify things, because now the ball is on the Palestinian side of the net, and if the talks collapse, then the ball will be in the UN, US, the EU, and Russian side of the net.

And since Israel has already rudely rebuffed the settlement freeze request of those for entities, it then become time to see what those four entities do to ramp up the pressure on Israel.

Point granted, the above four may decline dope slapping Israel, but Israel is betting the farm on that no dope slap and Israel may lose the bet.

I will let events decide, Israel did not extend the settlement freeze and now the time for action starts.

 

[EagleKeeper]

To Common Courtesy who asks a number of different questions,

The main thing the world is worried about NOW regarding mid-east peace is that Israel talks and talks and stalls and stalls while building settlement on land its does not own. And as we see in the 9/29 Lieberman speech to the UN, these settled land will not be given back as Israel will demand retaining them. In short, as long as settlements continue, its advantage for Israel to talk and stall. If settlements are frozen, neither side gains an advantage by stalling.

Israel really showed it was two faced at Annapolis, and now that settlements have resumed, I am not going to try to justify things, because now the ball is on the Palestinian side of the net, and if the talks collapse, then the ball will be in the UN, US, the EU, and Russian side of the net.

And since Israel has already rudely rebuffed the settlement freeze request of those for entities, it then become time to see what those four entities do to ramp up the pressure on Israel.

Point granted, the above four may decline dope slapping Israel, but Israel is betting the farm on that no dope slap and Israel may lose the bet.

I will let events decide, Israel did not extend the settlement freeze and now the time for action starts.

Israel froze the settlements for 10 months. The Pals stalled for 8 months on the talks. Where were the four then. What were the Pals doing then? did anyone critize the PAls for not showing up?

The Pals gained an advantage by having the settlements frozen. It demonstrated that they were able to demand conditions from Israel and not offer anything in return. Your big four have realized this - the Pals may not have been serious.

Now, that advantage has been removed by Israel and the Pals will have to come up with something inventive to come to the peace table with.

One can not blame Israel fo rthe Pals walking out. Israel opened the door; the Pals may be determined to close it.

 

[Lemon law]

First of all, the Pals wanted a permanent settlement freeze and not a closed end settlement freeze rather than being suckered for the 10'th time. Nor have the Pals gained any advantage while waiting. But now under world pressure they resumed talks without a promise of any Israeli settlement freeze. And because Israel then refused the settlement freeze extension, all Israel did is prove the Palestinians correct in distrusting the Israelis.

But Common Courtesy maybe asks the crucial question by saying, "One can not blame Israel fo rthe Pals walking out. Israel opened the door; the Pals may be determined to close it. " Because it remains to be seen who the ENTIRE world will blame for closing the door.

Bozo Netanyuhu may discover he overplayed his hand and Israel catches the blame finally. After all, Obama does not have to dope slap Israel, Obama can let everyone else dope slap Israel with impunity.

 

[EagleKeeper]

First of all, the Pals wanted a permanent settlement freeze and not a closed end settlement freeze rather than being suckered for the 10'th time. Nor have the Pals gained any advantage while waiting. But now under world pressure they resumed talks without a promise of any Israeli settlement freeze. And because Israel then refused the settlement freeze extension, all Israel did is prove the Palestinians correct in distrusting the Israelis.

But Common Courtesy maybe asks the crucial question by saying, "One can not blame Israel fo rthe Pals walking out. Israel opened the door; the Pals may be determined to close it. " Because it remains to be seen who the ENTIRE world will blame for closing the door.

Bozo Netanyuhu may discover he overplayed his hand and Israel catches the blame finally. After all, Obama does not have to dope slap Israel, Obama can let everyone else dope slap Israel with impunity.

Israel put the freeze in place as an inducement for the Pals to come to the table. They were not forced to.
The Pals did not show up for 8 months. which you like to forget. They only showed because of world pressure that the Pals would seem to not want peace.
If Israel continued the freeze; it shows that the Pals are able to dictate the rules of the game. They acted like spoiled children in the beginning; when embarressed, they showed up and demanded that Israel play by their rules or they would take the ball and go home.

How can Israel catch the blame if the Pals choose to pack it up and go home empty handed AGAIN. Everytime the Pals go to the table; they come back with a promise that they will not keep.

 

[Lemon law]

Jesus Christ on a crutch Common Courtesy, no one expects a totally pro Israeli biased person like you to see reality clearly.

Its the larger world that will decide, and not you and I. I too may be biased in your mind, but I think events will decide.

And if and when the larger world decides Israel is the biggest roadblock to a mid-east peace, its the world that is going to be the unstoppable bulldozer. That time to end the Israeli charade may be fast approaching, or it may take more time, but as I have said before, long term the Israeli position is long term untenable.

And when and if the world ACTS, you and I will have no problem seeing undeniable new realities.

 

[JS80]

Israel put the freeze in place as an inducement for the Pals to come to the table. They were not forced to.
The Pals did not show up for 8 months. which you like to forget. They only showed because of world pressure that the Pals would seem to not want peace.
If Israel continued the freeze; it shows that the Pals are able to dictate the rules of the game. They acted like spoiled children in the beginning; when embarressed, they showed up and demanded that Israel play by their rules or they would take the ball and go home.

How can Israel catch the blame if the Pals choose to pack it up and go home empty handed AGAIN. Everytime the Pals go to the table; they come back with a promise that they will not keep.

They're not my pals, buddy.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Jesus Christ on a crutch LL, no one expects a person like you to see reality clearly.

Fixed that for you.

LL, stop making new threads every time an issue with israel comes up and/or you realize you have lost an argument completely in another thread. Every time you put these new threads up, you are simply going to get humiliated repeatably

 

[Freshgeardude]

LL likes to beat around the bush that the Palis did not come to the table for 8 months and only came after immense pressure from the world.

Israel has offered direct talks for as long as the 10 month freeze was open, Palis insisted indirect, even though they literally are 10 minutes away from each other.

It is obvious to the world who doesnt want to be at the table, and as usual, I will be right on this issue, like every issue.

I dont even have to think about it. Just think OPPOSITE of what LL thinks, and I will be right.

 

[Lemon law]

Of course I will start new threads every time another event puts another nail into the Israeli lack of credibility coffin.

Your problem FGD may be two fold. (1) Few events are reducing Palestinian credibility, all events are seemingly working against Israeli credibility. Leaving you nothing to post to counter my posts. (2) The world is now a fixing to act, it won't be a matter of a few days, but probably the next few weeks will start to make things clearer. Point granted the world may do nothing, but you will know it if the world dope slaps Israel that is becoming more and more isolated.

 

[Jhhnn]

Israel put the freeze in place as an inducement for the Pals to come to the table.

They put the temporary freeze in place (not really a freeze anyway) as a way to stall because they were under pressure from the Obama Admin. Their announcement to build in a particular area adjacent to Jerusalem was issued while the vice-prez was visiting, doing a bit of shuttle diplomacy with the Pals. In yo' face, Joe Biden!

Ten months was the chosen length, to coincide with American midterm elections, when they knew the Admin wouldn't say shit when they ended it.

What's to talk about, anyway, if they won't quit taking from the Pals?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Psst, "the world" isn't going to do anything because as has been said before the would doesn't care and if you think Iraq or Afghanistan is a cluster you've seen nothing compared to resolving five thousand year old conflicts. Only the most deranged fool would even consider intervention.

 

[Freshgeardude]

They put the temporary freeze in place (not really a freeze anyway) as a way to stall because they were under pressure from the Obama Admin. Their announcement to build in a particular area adjacent to Jerusalem was issued while the vice-prez was visiting, doing a bit of shuttle diplomacy with the Pals. In yo' face, Joe Biden!

Ten months was the chosen length, to coincide with American midterm elections, when they knew the Admin wouldn't say shit when they ended it.

What's to talk about, anyway, if they won't quit taking from the Pals?

while the date set for the settlement was probably planned as you said but bullshit on the freeze

the freeze was announced in november 2009.

biden was there in march 10.

This article will collaborate what I just said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/world/middleeast/10biden.html

After much haggling, in November the Israelis announced a 10-month partial freeze on new settlement building in the West Bank. But they exempted Jerusalem from the moratorium because Israel has annexed East Jerusalem and considers it part of its united capital, a position the rest of the world rejects.

By ETHAN BRONNER

Published: March 9, 2010

 

[Freshgeardude]

Of course I will start new threads every time another event puts another nail into the Israeli lack of credibility coffin.

Your problem FGD may be two fold. (1) Few events are reducing Palestinian credibility, all events are seemingly working against Israeli credibility. Leaving you nothing to post to counter my posts. (2) The world is now a fixing to act, it won't be a matter of a few days, but probably the next few weeks will start to make things clearer. Point granted the world may do nothing, but you will know it if the world dope slaps Israel that is becoming more and more isolated.

LOL I dont need to post new articles every time the palestians and the middle eastern countries fuck up. if I did, P&N would be overwhelmed.


Right now, everyone is looking at the palestians. They need to be the ones to stay at the table. they actions, errr... inactions over the last few months as well as how easily they want to jump ship from these talks, coupled with the fact abbas is ready to resign, and ontop of the fact that the palis are being the puppets of the arab league

ALL show to the world that the palestians are not interested in peace.

 

[Craig234]

The Pals gained an advantage by having the settlements frozen. It demonstrated that they were able to demand conditions from Israel and not offer anything in return.

Wrong. The settlements are wrong, period. It's like having trade negotiations with Canada where we launch rockets at them and say they 'gain advantage' if we stop.

There are legitimate 'bargaining chips' and not legitimate. Illegal settlements are not a legitimate bargaining chip.

If we're negotiating and I toss in 'give me this and I won't kill your family', nice deal for me - costs me nothing and gets a concession from you, but it's wrong.

It's no excuse to say 'but you have been stalling on the negotiations, you are holding them up and threatening your family gets you to cooperate'.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Wrong. The settlements are wrong, period. It's like having trade negotiations with Canada where we launch rockets at them and say they 'gain advantage' if we stop.

There are legitimate 'bargaining chips' and not legitimate. Illegal settlements are not a legitimate bargaining chip.

If we're negotiating and I toss in 'give me this and I won't kill your family', nice deal for me - costs me nothing and gets a concession from you, but it's wrong.

It's no excuse to say 'but you have been stalling on the negotiations, you are holding them up and threatening your family gets you to cooperate'.

so much fail in your post.

Israel doesnt launch rockets at the palestinains. it happens the other way.


The settlements are currently disputed with israel claiming it as gained land after 67 and the leaderless people claiming it as their own.
Egypt gave up claims to gaza after the peace agreement with israel which they could have taken as part of the sinai
jordan gave up claims to the west bank after their peace with israel.


Israel has been asking for direct talks for a while already.

 

[Craig234]

Israel put the freeze in place as an inducement for the Pals to come to the table. They were not forced to.
The Pals did not show up for 8 months. which you like to forget. They only showed because of world pressure that the Pals would seem to not want peace.
If Israel continued the freeze; it shows that the Pals are able to dictate the rules of the game. They acted like spoiled children in the beginning; when embarressed, they showed up and demanded that Israel play by their rules or they would take the ball and go home.

How can Israel catch the blame if the Pals choose to pack it up and go home empty handed AGAIN. Everytime the Pals go to the table; they come back with a promise that they will not keep.

So, Israel isn't the side who wins as time goes on in the status quo? They aren't the side who benefits from being a phony participant in peace talks?

Putting a 'freeze' on illegally harming the Palestinians makes Israel a 'good guy'? Not behaving illegally shows the occupied, oppressed Palestinians have too much power?