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Israel: We Are At War

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Leeea said:
Qatar is even more vulnerable then Iran.

Israel can just play hardball with Qatar, no need for violence. Just the threat of it would be enough.

Soft power states like Qatar are fine are a good way to influence the world stage, but when they start meddling with terrorist networks they need to understand the possibly of hard power consequences.
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Qatar is far from israel, any threat would be just be sabre rattling given the distance.

And about my opinion that some kibboutz looked like battlefields it seems that there s some witnesses that corroborate this observation, we ll know more once there s inquiries but given what this survivor is saying this add some fuel about the israeli army being overestimated as far as we re talking of professionalism :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1713952156594618723
 
Leeea said:
Qatar is even more vulnerable then Iran.

Israel can just play hardball with Qatar, no need for violence. Just the threat of it would be enough.

Soft power states like Qatar are fine are a good way to influence the world stage, but when they start meddling with terrorist networks they need to understand the possibly of hard power consequences.
Click to expand...
Qatar is a valuable US ally. Its home to the main US base in the middle-east. Israel is pretty limited in what they can do towards Qatar.

The Al Udeid Air Base is a military base located west of Doha Qatar and is owned by the Qatar Emiri Air Force. It is home to the headquarters of United States Central Command (USCC) and United State Air Force Central Command (USAFCC). The Al Udeid Air Base Qatar is also a home to the 379th Air Expeditionary Wing of the USAF and to the No. 83 Expeditionary Air Group RAF...

militarybases.com

Al Udeid Air Force Base in Doha, Qatar | Military Bases

Al Udeid Air Base is a military base located west of Doha Qatar and is owned by the Qatar Emiri Air Force. Learn more about Al Udeid Air Force Base.
militarybases.com militarybases.com
 
amenx said:
Qatar is a valuable US ally. Its home to the main US base in the middle-east. Israel is pretty limited in what they can do towards Qatar.

The Al Udeid Air Base is a military base located west of Doha Qatar and is owned by the Qatar Emiri Air Force. It is home to the headquarters of United States Central Command (USCC) and United State Air Force Central Command (USAFCC). The Al Udeid Air Base Qatar is also a home to the 379th Air Expeditionary Wing of the USAF and to the No. 83 Expeditionary Air Group RAF...

https://militarybases.com/overseas/qatar/al-udeid/
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And what side do you think the US is going to take in that dispute?

How familiar are you with US domestic politics?
 
Leeea said:
And what side do you think the US is going to take in that dispute?

How familiar are you with US domestic politics?
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Yes we all know how powerful the Israel lobby is, but things involving vital US strategic interests top everything and even Israel knows that and wont push it. Everything has limits. The US will not close down their base on account of an Israeli squabble with Qatar.
 
amenx said:
The Illuminati are not a Jewish group or conspiracy involving Jews or associated with Jews! Do your f'ing homework before commenting on crap you know little about.
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Actually, a Jewish/Illuminati/Freemason connection/conspiracy has been around for at least a century. Nesta Webster, 1920’s ring a bell? Eustace Mullins?

How about something “fresher”….Pat Robertson’s 1991 book “A New World Order”, in which he writes the Illuminati was taken over by Jews via Freemasonry beginning in 1752 or some such nonsense.

Short answer, there’s been a Jewish/Illuminati mashup for over 100 years.

Just an FYI so you can stop looking like an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
 
amenx said:
Yes we all know how powerful the Israel lobby is, but things involving vital US strategic interests top everything and even Israel knows that and wont push it. Everything has limits. The US will not close down their base on account of an Israeli squabble with Qatar.
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it is not just a lobby

its a religious thing.

god's chosen people thing with apocalyptic overtones.

push comes to shove the response will be non-rational.
 
Meghan54 said:
Actually, a Jewish/Illuminati/Freemason connection/conspiracy has been around for at least a century. Nesta Webster, 1920’s ring a bell? Eustace Mullins?

How about something “fresher”….Pat Robertson’s 1991 book “A New World Order”, in which he writes the Illuminati was taken over by Jews via Freemasonry beginning in 1752 or some such nonsense.

Short answer, there’s been a Jewish/Illuminati mashup for over 100 years.

Just an FYI so you can stop looking like an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Click to expand...

en.wikipedia.org

Illuminati - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Meghan54 said:
Actually, a Jewish/Illuminati/Freemason connection/conspiracy has been around for at least a century. Nesta Webster, 1920’s ring a bell? Eustace Mullins?

How about something “fresher”….Pat Robertson’s 1991 book “A New World Order”, in which he writes the Illuminati was taken over by Jews via Freemasonry beginning in 1752 or some such nonsense.

Short answer, there’s been a Jewish/Illuminati mashup for over 100 years.

Just an FYI so you can stop looking like an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Click to expand...
"At least 100 years" is putting it mildly. There have been conspiracy theories involving Jews and various shadowy groups, real and fictional, since medieval Europe. So far as Illuminati in particular, IIRC it goes back to 18th century Germany, so that's probably also how long "the Jews" have allegedly been connected to it.
 
Abwx said:
Qatar is far from israel, any threat would be just be sabre rattling given the distance.

And about my opinion that some kibboutz looked like battlefields it seems that there s some witnesses that corroborate this observation, we ll know more once there s inquiries but given what this survivor is saying this add some fuel about the israeli army being overestimated as far as we re talking of professionalism :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1713952156594618723
Click to expand...

You do know that 10%-15% of casualties in warfare are from friendly fire, right? And while these kibbutzniks weren't soldiers, some had guns that they were fighting the terrorists with, and it would have been difficult to distinguish them. I wouldn't draw any conclusions about professionalism on the part of the IDF if this happened. I'd be surprised if it didn't.
 
HomerJS said:
Think Hamas are the only murderous thugs? Six year old boy stabbed to death because he is Muslim. Mother stabbed as well. Certain people in this country will now start taking their hate on anyone of color from the Middle East. At least Bush after 9/11 gave a speech to the idiots who would take out their hate on any Muslim.
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Stabbed 26 times. Wife of suspect says he was into right wing talk radio.
 
amenx said:
This is sick.

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Generally agree. What Hamas did is horrendous and needs swift action taken against it, but they are essentially a terrorist group whilst Israel is a country. Israel is behaving like they have a blank check to commit atrocities and war crimes. In many ways, they are dehumanizing palestinians most of whom had nothing to do with this.

Leeea said:
I don't know if you noticed, but the USA and the entirety of Europe is not letting them in either.


Yep. Curious that at the end of the day the only people who actually care about them are the Israelis.

Everyone else is just hot air.
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I think its a bit more complicated for the US and Europe to take in these refugees than it is for nearby Arab states.
 
2000 US Marines are being sent to Israel right now. The White House says they will not be involved in a hot war between Israel and Hamas. They will provide "logistical and medical support." Analysis suggests that the primary purpose is to deter Hezbollah, Iran or anyone else in the region from getting involved, turning it into a wider conflict. I think it's a smart move. It's nice when you can actually deploy your troops in a manner more likely to reduce human casualties than to increase them.

 
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mikeymikec said:
An Illuminati logo, a bunch of guys with caricature Jewish characteristics around a table with a stack of money in the middle, with the table stacked on top of the backs of the less fortunate? It's an explicit reference to the conspiracy theory that Jewish people run the world.

If you want to play dumb that's your business, but it's not a respectable argument position.
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I'm undecided about Corbyn, there seems to be evidence both ways, but that mural was _obviously_ anti-Semitic, it seemed clear to me the moment I first saw it (though I only saw a picture of it _after_ it had been removed). It was glaringly obvious, but it's not clear if Corbyn ever even saw it before defending it - which is sloppy and careless of him but not quite as bad as if he'd defended it knowing what it was.

(Curiously, it was created by a Hispanic artist from the US, and removed on the orders of a Muslim mayor.)
 
Israel has murdered close to twice the number of children in Gaza than Russia has in Ukraine (all in less than 10 days)

Take a bow Israel, job well done, you'll surely kill every Hamas terrorist if you keep this up
 
pmv said:
I'm undecided about Corbyn, there seems to be evidence both ways, but that mural was _obviously_ anti-Semitic, it seemed clear to me the moment I first saw it (though I only saw a picture of it _after_ it had been removed). It was glaringly obvious, but it's not clear if Corbyn ever even saw it before defending it - which is sloppy and careless of him but not quite as bad as if he'd defended it knowing what it was.

(Curiously, it was created by a Hispanic artist from the US, and removed on the orders of a Muslim mayor.)
Click to expand...

I think one side-effect of for example the Israel - Palestine conflict is that many/most people feel the urge to take a side and in doing so also introduce a bias into their reasoning that encourages them to excuse behaviour by 'their' side and focus on the evils of the other side's actions. One of the things I have respected about Corbyn is his record of sympathising with the side that's often getting the thin end of the wedge, the 'unpopular' side, and he doesn't try to apologise for it like a typical politician wanting to distance themselves from a past opinion that might lose votes for them. Another example - IMO it's absolutely fucking crazy that the UK almost without hesitation invested what will be >£100bn in updating our nuclear weapons stockpile and so did he, even on live TV while getting hammered by the audience for it. It might well be that updating our nuclear weapons program is the right thing to do, but I would want to hear that debate with informed and honest reasoning with regard to the threats the UK faces in this era and how nuclear weapons are relevant in our defence.

I side with Palestine because my understanding is that they're fighting for their lives whereas Israel is fighting for more stuff. I've caught myself barely giving a shit about what Palestine does to Israel largely because of that and partly because of my belief that the winning side of virtually any conflict should bear the greater scrutiny of their tactics. IMO Israel has been fanning the flames of this conflict by cruelly subjugating the Palestinians because it fuels the propaganda for their cause.

I still respect Jeremy Corbyn for the reasons already stated even though I believe he holds anti-Semitic views though if he doubled-down on such nonsense rather than STFU I would be forced to reconsider. As far as I'm concerned everyone makes mistakes because of the bias I mentioned; it's how one reacts to being faced with the effects of that bias is a useful measure of a person.

- edit - I'm going to give further thought to my conclusion because normally I regard not admitting fault as a cowardly way out.
 
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KMFJD said:
Israel has murdered close to twice the number of children in Gaza than Russia has in Ukraine (all in less than 10 days)

Take a bow Israel, job well done, you'll surely kill every Hamas terrorist if you keep this up
Click to expand...
considering Russia has racked up a few 100,000 dead and kidnapped, that seems difficult to believe.

and being kidnapped into Russia is a fate likely worse then death.
 
mikeymikec said:
I think one side-effect of for example the Israel - Palestine conflict is that many/most people feel the urge to take a side and in doing so also introduce a bias into their reasoning that encourages them to excuse behaviour by 'their' side and focus on the evils of the other side's actions. One of the things I have respected about Corbyn is his record of sympathising with the side that's often getting the thin end of the wedge, the 'unpopular' side, and he doesn't try to apologise for it like a typical politician wanting to distance themselves from a past opinion that might lose votes for them. Another example - IMO it's absolutely fucking crazy that the UK almost without hesitation invested what will be >£100bn in updating our nuclear weapons stockpile and so did he, even on live TV while getting hammered by the audience for it. It might well be that updating our nuclear weapons program is the right thing to do, but I would want to hear that debate with informed and honest reasoning with regard to the threats the UK faces in this era and how nuclear weapons are relevant in our defence.

I side with Palestine because my understanding is that they're fighting for their lives whereas Israel is fighting for more stuff. I've caught myself barely giving a shit about what Palestine does to Israel largely because of that and partly because of my belief that the winning side of virtually any conflict should bear the greater scrutiny of their tactics. IMO Israel has been fanning the flames of this conflict by cruelly subjugating the Palestinians because it fuels the propaganda for their cause.

I still respect Jeremy Corbyn for the reasons already stated even though I believe he holds anti-Semitic views though if he doubled-down on such nonsense rather than STFU I would be forced to reconsider. As far as I'm concerned everyone makes mistakes because of the bias I mentioned; it's how one reacts to being faced with the effects of that bias is a useful measure of a person.

- edit - I'm going to give further thought to my conclusion because normally I regard not admitting fault as a cowardly way out.
Click to expand...

I think one problem with Corbyn is that he was always quite a marginal figure, even on the left, and ended up in that job by accident, because he was the only '80s leftist still around. And he spent most of his career on 'internationalist' issues, opposing 'imperialism' (rather than on economic domestic issues). That's not really much of an asset when you need to get votes from British people, who are often quite nationalistic. As American liberal friends have pointed out when I complain about Biden's American nationalism, you _have_ to buy into that stuff or nobody will vote for you. Corbyn never did, which meant he wasn't a great choice for leader.

I have no idea if he is personally anti-Semitic, there was not much evidence of it, but there is the fact he came from an upper-class background and went to an elite English school, and anti-Semitism is common in that world. And his brother is downright weird (climate-change denier and conspiracy-theorist anti-vaxxer), which makes one wonder about JC by association. And he just never got a grip on the influx of crazy people into the Labour Party under his leadership. Which suggests maybe he just didn't take anti-Semitism seriously enough - but on the other hand there seems to be some evidence that the Labour Right was working hard to ensure the problem didn't get fixed, because it undermined Corbyn.

I don't know what I think about Israel/Palestine. Cowardly on my part, I guess, but it seems to me any opinion I have will be that of a dilettante with no real stake in the issue, when it's a matter of life-and-death for people whose very identity means they are heavily invested on either side (and I know many people, even within my own family, who are fervently supportive of one side or the other - people who tend to get into arguments about it if ever in the same room together).
 
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