Israel: We Are At War

[APU_Fusion]

I'm not sure I understand your question. What did they achieve with suicide bombing and shootings inside of Israel? What did they achieve launching rockets for years into the cities of Israel? This is how the conflict looks like, and it's no different than what happened 100 years ago.

1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

this timed they filmed for the world to see their reckless slaughter of innocent women and children, they will be annihilated. The delusions and historical ignorance os some on these forums is astounding. Saudi Arabia is a shithole county who citizens took part in 911. We would come to their aid if Iran attacked them. Does no one know how the real world works here?

Terrorist act? Or rising up against their oppressors

rising up against their oppressors by slaughtering innocent women and children while gleefully recording It? Yeah, fuck you. Israel is an ally. They do shitty things. I believe in two state solution but when hamas is indiscriminately killing children they are terrorists.

 

[dank69]

this timed they filmed for the world to see their reckless slaughter of innocent women and children, they will be annihilated. The delusions and historical ignorance os some on these forums is astounding. Saudi Arabia is a shithole county who citizens took part in 911. We would come to their aid if Iran attacked them. Does no one know how the real world works here?

rising up against their oppressors by slaughtering innocent women and children while gleefully recording It? Yeah, fuck you. Israel is an ally. They do shitty things. I believe in two state solution but when hamas is indiscriminately killing children they are terrorists.

But the Isrealis are not terrorists when they kill Palestinian women and children. Yes, we get it.

 

[IronWing]

But the Isrealis are not terrorists when they kill Palestinian women and children. Yes, we get it.

That’s different. US weapons manufacturers make money when Israelis do the killing. If you buy your weapons from the US, you’re an ally, otherwise you’re a terrorist.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ More truth in that than most will ever accept.

 

[Perknose]

^^^ More truth in that than most will ever accept.

Sadly true. The right wing Jewish settlers steadily stealing Palestinian land are violent religious fundamentalists with less reason for their depredations than Hamas. Ugly, ugly, ugly all around.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Lest we forget the likes of Yahu's lap dog Boehner of Ohio and the many others in US Government that have enabled and defended the tyranny.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well what makes a revolutionary any different from a terrorist?
If you say cause, which side of the cause are you looking at?

I mean, killing non combatants, including children, usually pushes you over that edge.

 

[cytg111]

I'm not sure I understand your question. What did they achieve with suicide bombing and shootings inside of Israel? What did they achieve launching rockets for years into the cities of Israel? This is how the conflict looks like, and it's no different than what happened 100 years ago.

1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mmmhmm.
Except this is the MAD button except you are the only one getting wiped off the earth. So why the fuck would you press that button? Skirmishes and a “status quo” in the established power positions, ok, that makes sense I guess… But this is suicide.

 

[Leeea]

Terrorist act? Or rising up against their oppressors?

thing is, they didn't kill their oppressors.

They just killed civilians. People who have no power to decisions regarding anything. Some were tourists. They weren't even settlers. Just normal people.

Most of the people at the rave probably even agreed with the Palestinian cause, well, before they were murdered. Lots of Europeans their.


It is over now. The Palestinian cause in Gaza is dead. They are now religious extremists, terrorists. There is no negotiation. No co-existence.


I had hoped that Israel would take the high road and filter the civilians out before hand, and their are ways for civilians to flee:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/09/israel-gaza-war-hamas/

The crossing from Gaza into Egypt remained partially open Monday and was overwhelmed with people trying to flee.

But there is no way enough are going to escape.


Looks like 20,000 are sheltering in UN buildings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/08/gaza-israel-airstrikes-palestinians/

Many are seeking refuge at schools run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the U.N. body charged with supporting Palestinians.
By early evening Saturday, more than 20,000 internally displaced people, some carrying mattresses and other belongings, were sheltering at UNRWA schools in Gaza, the agency said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/thousands-of-gazans-flee-homes-as-israel-promises-to-press-the-fight/2014/07/13/d37eed04-0ac6-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html

Tens of thousands of panicked residents fled their homes in the northern Gaza Strip on Sunday after the Israeli military dropped leaflets from the sky warning those who stayed behind that they were risking their lives because a large, intense operation was imminent.

Also looks like civilians are just being pushed around the strip itself.

Looks like Israel will just slowly push them up into a pile on the Egyptian border.

 

[IronWing]

There hasn’t been coexistence since the British betrayed the Arab revolt against the Ottomans and gave away land that belonged to someone else. Since then, it’s been a long, slow grind of ethnic cleansing against the Arab population.

 

[cytg111]

The only thing that makes sense is that they’re throwing their own bodies, civilians, at the Israelis in hopes that it will destabilize the current peace talks that Israel is negotiating across the ME the past couple years.

 

[APU_Fusion]

But the Isrealis are not terrorists when they kill Palestinian women and children. Yes, we get it.

lol, sure you get it. Done on camera was dumb. iget is you loser

 

[KMFJD]

From a Haaretz Op-Ed

Fifteen years have passed since Netanyahu promised to topple the Hamas government. In those years he’s managed to successfully topple Israeli society, military deterrence and orderly governance – and Hamas became a trained army. No government in the world can escape unscathed from such an event. This is a historic failure, a total collapse of all systems.After the Second Lebanon War, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert managed to survive for two years, but he moved around like a zombie prime minister. This will also be Netanyahu’s fate. At least Olmert had a normal government, without the gang of evildoers and thugs who have been making our lives miserable for the last nine months. This meritless cabinet is the most extremist, shallow and alarming one we’ve ever had.

 

[APU_Fusion]

Mmmhmm.
Except this is the MAD button except you are the only one getting wiped off the earth. So why the fuck would you press that button? Skirmishes and a “status quo” in the established power positions, ok, that makes sense I guess… But this is suicide.

It is astonishing the ignorance on this forum. No understanding of geopolitical reality or the suicicde of Hamas by recording these atrocities with gleeful abandon. Israel is a shit country but Hamas crossed a rubicon by this very televised terrorist attack. that peo-le are trying to justify this murderimg of women and children (with glee!) is astounding. Nine innocent Americans are dead. If you are American and can condone this you are a traitor.

 

[akugami]

Are you certain of this?
What is an appropriate response after said terrorist act?
Given the situation, it is going to be a disproportionate response in terms of losses. It will be horrible. Can you deem that as necessary? Or do terrorists get a pass when using human shields?
I am looking for anything short of comparing atrocities, but their methods don't exactly leave an alternative. Free pass, or terrible losses.

I am absolutely not for violence and oppression. You can look up my post history.

I will not, and never will, support an action from a terrorist organization such as Hamas.

However, with that said, there is a contingent here who write as if Israel has never done anything wrong. Look at one of my past posts here and I write that my feelings on the nation of Israel is not aimed at any particular Israeli citizen, but at the government and those in its government. I pointed out that the United Nations has found that Israel perpetuated a system of apartheid. That's very damning. And one can argue that an organization such as Hamas may never have come to be if not for the oppressiveness of the Israeli government.

I am condemning both Hamas for their actions. Inexcusable. At the same time I am saying that the Israeli government is not innocent either.

 

[Leeea]

The only thing that makes sense is that they’re throwing their own bodies, civilians, at the Israelis in hopes that it will destabilize the current peace talks that Israel is negotiating across the ME the past couple years.

If they had hit Israeli military targets, police, politicians, kept it civilized, yea, that would have worked.


Instead they filmed themselves hunting down and committing atrocities on civilians in mass, in an organized manner, and then posted that online. There is no taking that back. There no excusing that. There is no pretending that is ok.

Its over.


They shocked us. They showed us who they really are. Now they die.

 

[dank69]

lol, sure you get it. Done on camera was dumb. iget is you loser

Godzilla had a stronk trying to read this and died.

It is astonishing the ignorance on this forum. No understanding of geopolitical reality or the suicicde of Hamas by recording these atrocities with gleeful abandon. Israel is a shit country but Hamas crossed a rubicon by this very televised terrorist attack. that peo-le are trying to justify this murderimg of women and children (with glee!) is astounding. Nine innocent Americans are dead. If you are American and can condone this you are a traitor.

Nobody is condoning or justifying Hamas. We're just done with selective outrage. You're the one justifying atrocities by saying it's better when they're done "off camera."

 

[akugami]

Just on this. Palestinians never had a country so its wrong to say that 'it was stolen from the Palestinians'. The Ottoman Empire controlled this area for ~500 years before the British took over the land. Before the Ottoman's the Egyptian Mamluk's controlled the area.

Palestinian nationalism is relatively recent. Much more at the link below;

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Opened, I'll read when I have time. Just note that I'm not the biggest history fan. It may put me to sleep.

Nevertheless, I frown upon taking land that has belonged to a particular group, whether they are officially a sovereign state or not, and ceding it to someone else. I also understand that it is all water under the bridge at this point. There is no taking back the land from Israel. That is impossible. Much like how there is no giving back the land that was stolen from native Americans at this point. What we can do is recognize such behavior should not happen, and ask what we can do better.

 

[cytg111]

It is astonishing the ignorance on this forum. No understanding of geopolitical reality or the suicicde of Hamas by recording these atrocities with gleeful abandon. Israel is a shit country but Hamas crossed a rubicon by this very televised terrorist attack. that peo-le are trying to justify this murderimg of women and children (with glee!) is astounding. Nine innocent Americans are dead. If you are American and can condone this you are a traitor.

The geopolitical reality will play out in realtime the coming days with reactions throughout the ME.
I get it dude, but you gotta dial back the emotions.

 

[Leeea]

I think the worse thing here is the damage Hamas did to all Palestinians.



They greatly eroded Israeli democracy and eliminated any real chance of reform toward Palestine.

They played right into the hands of Israel's sadistically evil prime minister, who will use this to light the fire of hatred and inflict far greater suffering and abuse to all Palestinian people for decades to come. They cemented his power and the destruction of the judicial branch in Israel, permanently harming democracy and any real chance of change of the Palestinian situation. They hunted down and murdered the "love and peace" festival rave with its European attendance. The shock waves just off of that will end many support among former sympathizers. Friends coming back with horror stories, others coming back in body bags.


This was the worse thing they could do. They set the Palestinian cause back a generation.

 

[HomerJS]

Because terrorism is a label pretty much used only to describe killing of whites.

That why we can't get a strong law on domestic terrorism passed in this country. Our intel agencies have already told us the #1 domestic terror threat yet in Republican circles they support and associate with them.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

thing is, they didn't kill their oppressors.

They just killed civilians. People who have no power to decisions regarding anything. Some were tourists. They weren't even settlers. Just normal people.

In Israel, there are no civilians. Everyone is conscripted and required to do military service and may be called back in some cases. All are IDF. IDF is all.

As I pointed out earlier, one 'tourist' from America was a violent far right Jewish extremist who attacked art at a museum. How many other 'tourists' had similar ideals?

 

[IronWing]

I think the worse thing here is the damage Hamas did to all Palestinians.



They greatly eroded Israeli democracy and eliminated any real chance of reform toward Palestinian.

They played right into the hands of Israel's sadistically evil prime minister, who will use this to light the fire of hatred and inflict far greater suffering and abuse to all Palestinian people for decades to come. They cemented his power and the destruction of the judicial branch in Israel, permanently harming democracy and any real chance of change of the Palestinian situation. They hunted down and murdered the "love and peace" festival rave with its European attendance. The shock waves just off of that will end many support among former sympathizers. Friends coming back with horror stories, others coming back in body bags.


This was the worse thing they could do. They set the Palestinian cause back a generation.

The Israeli voters have agency and used that agency to elect Netanyahu. The Palestinians didn't "make" the Israeli voters do anything. Netanyahu had already been elected so his election couldn't have a been a response to this latest violence.

 

[HomerJS]

I think the worse thing here is the damage Hamas did to all Palestinians.



They greatly eroded Israeli democracy and eliminated any real chance of reform toward Palestinian.

They played right into the hands of Israel's sadistically evil prime minister, who will use this to light the fire of hatred and inflict far greater suffering and abuse to all Palestinian people for decades to come. They cemented his power and the destruction of the judicial branch in Israel, permanently harming democracy and any real chance of change of the Palestinian situation. They hunted down and murdered the "love and peace" festival rave with its European attendance. The shock waves just off of that will end many support among former sympathizers. Friends coming back with horror stories, others coming back in body bags.


This was the worse thing they could do. They set the Palestinian cause back a generation.

It's like what Trump and Republicans do with our immigration problem. They find one crime run it on a 24x7 loop to scare the shit out of people. They then use that fear to justify their authoritarian takeover.

Unfortunately Hamas has given Netanyahu a real reason to turn Gaza into glass and go full right wing dictator. I wonder if this is their version of death by cop?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

As far as European tourists, who goes to a music festival in occupied Gaza that isn't Israeli?