Israel: We Are At War

[GodisanAtheist]

Israeli civilians recently broke through an IDF checkpoint into Gaza likely intent on doing bad things. The Israeli government is paralyzed. To call this a shit show is an insult to shit shows.

This is some Apocalypse Now shit right here

It was the way we had over here of living with ourselves. We'd cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a Band-Aid. It was a lie—and the more I saw of them, the more I hated lies.

 

[MrSquished]

Israel fires on crowd of Palestinians crowding around to get aid. They admit they fired, but claim the deaths were all cause by a stampede and aid trucks running over them. Sure, ok. The gunfire didn't get anyone. Fucking monsters

Israeli troops fire on crowd seeking food from aid convoy, killing more than 100 Palestinians

Israel has vowed to continue the war until it destroys Hamas’ military and governing capabilities and returns the over 100 hostages still held by the group.

apnews.com

 

[Racan]

-

 

[trenchfoot]

It seems to me the actual cause of the massacre of Palestinians (and who knows how many Hamas instigators were in the mix) was having the aid trucks driving in willy nilly and not having any means for crowd control. You couldn't ask for a better way to create a riot over who gets food and who does not. What happened was much like throwing raw meat into a pack of penned up starving dogs.

 

[brycejones]

It seems to me the actual cause of the massacre of Palestinians (and who knows how many Hamas instigators were in the mix) was having the aid trucks driving in willy nilly and not having any means for crowd control. You couldn't ask for a better way to create a riot over who gets food and who does not. What happened was much like throwing raw meat into a pack of penned up starving dogs.

That's a weird way to say the cause was the IDF shooting at civilians.

 

[trenchfoot]

That's a weird way to say the cause was the IDF shooting at civilians.

I'm thinking the shootings wouldn't have ever occurred if an organized method of distributing food was set up prior to the tragedy unfolding. Keeping in mind that anything can happen when you have thousands of starving people acting on their base instincts for survival while being exploited by two opposing forces who are directly in the mix of things, the only thing I could come up with as a long shot way of feeding the needy was what I previously mentioned.

I can see where the Israelis interest is to deny the Hamas fighters any aid meant for the Palestinians, however if there's not a relatively safe and organized method of aid distribution as best as possible, what happened then is bound to happen again.

 

[brycejones]

I'm thinking the shootings wouldn't have ever occurred if an organized method of distributing food was set up prior to the tragedy unfolding. Keeping in mind that anything can happen when you have thousands of starving people acting on their base instincts for survival while being exploited by two opposing forces who are directly in the mix of things, the only thing I could come up with as a long shot way of feeding the needy was what I previously mentioned.

I can see where the Israelis interest is to deny the Hamas fighters any aid meant for the Palestinians, however if there's not a relatively safe and organized method of aid distribution as possible, what happened then is bound to happen again.

You come off as blaming the victims here…. Is that your intent?

 

[trenchfoot]

You come off as blaming the victims here…. Is that your intent?

Not at all. It's the folks who are in charge of distributing the aid that's responsible.

 

[repoman0]

It seems to me the actual cause of the massacre of Palestinians (and who knows how many Hamas instigators were in the mix) was having the aid trucks driving in willy nilly and not having any means for crowd control. You couldn't ask for a better way to create a riot over who gets food and who does not. What happened was much like throwing raw meat into a pack of penned up starving dogs.

Classic crowd and riot control method, death by mass shooting.

 

[trenchfoot]

Classic crowd and riot control method, death by mass shooting.

Like I previously mentioned, the way the aid was carelessly set up for distribution it was inevitable to end up that way.

 

[IronWing]

Like I previously mentioned, the way the aid was carelessly set up for distribution it was inevitable to end up that way.

No. Those soldiers chose to murder those civilians that day. It was not inevitable. The soldiers have agency.

 

[brycejones]

Like I previously mentioned, the way the aid was carelessly set up for distribution it was inevitable to end up that way.

So who was accountable for organizing it in your opinion?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not at all. It's the folks who are in charge of distributing the aid that's responsible.

Makes sense, what choice did the soldiers have but to fire? They're not human after all.

 

[trenchfoot]

Well I can see all points mentioned above and actually agree with the sentiments being mentioned, so let me be absolutely clear on this issue; I am not in any way defending the Israelis firing into the crowd no matter what they say their justification was/is. All I'm specifically referring to is the way the aid was being distributed. The tragic consequences that followed, including what the Israelis are responsible for was not germane to the point I was making. My total focus was and is the thoughtless method that the aid was distributed and how that possibly played a part in what happened thereafter.

 

[brycejones]

Well I can see all points mentioned above and actually agree with the sentiments being mentioned, so let me be absolutely clear on this issue; I am in no way defending the Israelis firing into the crowd no matter what they say their justification was/is. All I'm specifically referring to is the way the aid was being distributed. The tragic consequences that followed, including what the Israelis are responsible for was not germane to the point I was making. My total focus was and is the thoughtless method that the aid was distributed and how that possibly played a part in what happened thereafter.

So who was accountable for ensuring an effective way to distribute aid was in place in your opinion?

 

[trenchfoot]

So who was accountable for ensuring an effective way to distribute aid was in place in your opinion?

Well I thought I answered that in a previous post. If it's a specific organization that you're wanting me to pin the problem on, (hold on while I look that up)....it's the World Food Programme that's the umbrella entity. As to who actually provided the logistics and the actual individuals that organized the delivery on the ground that day I'll never know, although I'm thinking those people have conveniently disappeared from the picture , especially the truck drivers.

As things normally go, it seems to me the parent organization should be the one on the grill over this specific part of what ended up being a massacre of innocents.

 

[brycejones]

Well I thought I answered that in a previous post. If it's a specific organization that you're wanting me to pin the problem on, (hold on while I look that up)....it's the World Food Programme that's the umbrella entity. As to who actually provided the logistics and the actual individuals that organized the delivery on the ground that day I'll never know, although I'm thinking those people have conveniently disappeared from the picture , especially the truck drivers.

As things normally go, it seems to me the parent organization should be the one on the grill over this specific part of what ended up being a massacre of innocents.

So the IDF doesn't have authority?

 

[trenchfoot]

So the IDF doesn't have authority?

Good question that needs to be answered. It does seem that the IDF would have a say as far as allaying their concerns over protecting their troops go, although I have absolutely no idea why they were there to begin with other than possibly providing force projection for preventing Hamas fighters from taking over the delivery.

 

[MrSquished]

Well I thought I answered that in a previous post. If it's a specific organization that you're wanting me to pin the problem on, (hold on while I look that up)....it's the World Food Programme that's the umbrella entity. As to who actually provided the logistics and the actual individuals that organized the delivery on the ground that day I'll never know, although I'm thinking those people have conveniently disappeared from the picture , especially the truck drivers.

As things normally go, it seems to me the parent organization should be the one on the grill over this specific part of what ended up being a massacre of innocents.

As far as I can see, the Israelis have the control of what happens anywhere in Gaza at this point, save for a few parts of Rafah. They block aid, they let aid in when they feel like it. They control the resources these aid parties have to distribute their food. Israel has also caused the mass starvation and water shortages in Gaza, this is all their creation and under their control. It's pretty clear as IDF soldiers can just hang out there, that is a specific spot that Israel has control over. This seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think you should put the blame where it lies here, and it's quite evident that is Israel.

 

[brycejones]

Good question that needs to be answered. It does seem that the IDF would have a say as far as allaying their concerns over protecting their troops go, although I have absolutely no idea why they were there to begin with other than possibly providing force projection for preventing Hamas fighters from taking over the delivery.

The IDF has effectively destroyed the civil administration of Gaza. They are in charge at this point. Pretending otherwise seems to be ignoring the facts on the ground.

 

[KMFJD]

IOF had been firing on Gaza police forces that had been previously escorting the aid convoys

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/24/gaza-humanitarian-aid-israel-hamas-police-biden

 

[trenchfoot]

As far as I can see, the Israelis have the control of what happens anywhere in Gaza at this point, save for a few parts of Rafah. They block aid, they let aid in when they feel like it. They control the resources these aid parties have to distribute their food. Israel has also caused the mass starvation and water shortages in Gaza, this is all their creation and under their control. It's pretty clear as IDF soldiers can just hang out there, that is a specific spot that Israel has control over. This seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think you should put the blame where it lies here, and it's quite evident that is Israel.

From your wider point of view, I tend to agree. My original post dealt with a specific incident at a specific point in time and place where it seemed to me that having an orderly organized method of distributing aid might have prevented the tragedy from happening.

If the IDF was specifically in control of organizing and controlling the delivery of aid, well that's on them, they should answer for it. However, I'm assuming it was the WFP that was responsible for the way aid was being delivered. Thinking back on how previous deliveries were made, it looks as if the same method was employed. What happened in this particular delivery that turned it into a massacre only time and the mix of clashing agendas will tell.

 

[MrSquished]

From your wider point of view, I tend to agree. My original post dealt with a specific incident at a specific point in time and place where it seemed to me that having an orderly organized method of distributing aid might have prevented the tragedy from happening.

If the IDF was specifically in control of organizing and controlling the delivery of aid, well that's on them, they should answer for it. However, I'm assuming it was the WFP that was responsible for the way aid was being delivered. Thinking back on how previous deliveries were made, it looks as if the same method was employed. What happened in this particular delivery that turned it into a massacre only time and the mix of clashing agendas will tell.

Israel controls what aid and what resources they get to bring with them comes in. So ultimately, I'm pretty sure this is Israel's issue. I think ultimately, and they are telling us, aid groups want way more resources for Gaza, to give aid - that includes not just the physical stuff, but the ways to distribute it properly. It's pretty clear the IDF and the Israeli government and supporters think it's great to see Palestinians scuffle for food as they starve, like a stampede of bugs, because we have seen the Israeli's don't consider the Palestinians human, so that's why I use that word from THEIR perspective. Because Israel right now is pure evil.

 

[amenx]

NY Times is complicit in trying to justify Israel's genocide by promoting the Hamas sexual violence story:

Extraordinary charges of bias emerge against NYTimes reporter Anat Schwartz

New doubts are emerging about the New York Times’s coverage of sexual violence in the October 7 attack. The paper must explain why it broke its own rules by hiring a clearly biased writer who endorsed racist and violent rhetoric toward Palestinians.

mondoweiss.net

Now it is shown that the writer is a very racist person who is very anti-Palestinian. Why would they do this?

This writer liked a post about the 40 beheaded babies, which has been debunked.

Just one out of many in the MSM uncovered to be an IDF propagandist with no journalistic experience being part of her country's disinformation war. As some of us have noted earlier in the thread, Israel is perhaps the biggest spewer of outright lies and disinformation operating in the world today. They NEED to be to continue their wars and genocide unhindered.

The Story Behind the New York Times October 7 Exposé

“Screams Without Words,” the New York Times story about sexual violence by Jeffrey Gettleman, Adam Sella, and Anat Schwartz comes under fire.

theintercept.com

NYT ‘journalist’ who co-wrote ‘Hamas rape’ piece is IDF propagandist with ‘no journalism experience’

Anat Schwartz found to have liked racist and violent posts about Palestinians Image: Wikipedia A huge scandal has broken out in the US after the New York Times (NYT), one of the United States&#8217…

skwawkbox.org

The Intercept story is quite the deep dive into Anat Schwartz desperate efforts to dig out any evidence that may support her story and there was none.

 

[raildogg]

This Hamas rape story was debunked months ago. The sexual crimes, baby beheadings and other things were lies spread by Israelis so this can justify their war on Palestinian people. There was no proof because they felt that they are Israel and Israel needs no proof. And because Western media is so biased they basically believed these lies and so did American politicians. Hillary Clinton is still repeating these lies.

I also see that Biden is going to drop food and supplies on Gaza instead of bombs. What a great guy he is right?! After he basically destroyed the Gaza, killed more than 30,000 people and made life so hard for these people by supporting Israel, now he is going to drop food and supplies. This is just American foreign policy for you - they break countries, kill so many innocent people and then drop food on them. And you know what? Israel and America are the same at this point. Israel exists because of American weapons.

But this aid should have been done many months ago because people should assume that Israel was not going to let aid in. For many months they have blocked trucks so they can starve Palestinians. Only now America and the world cares? Ok.

Still no punishment for Andy Ogles for saying to kill all Palestinians? If Rashida Tlaib said something 5% as bad as that, she would have been removed by now. It shows that in America, Israeli lives matter much more than Palestinian lives. Not just Palestinian lives, but basically non-Western lives.