Israel, the U.S. and the West Bank Settlements

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
TruePaige makes two incongruent statements.


"If Israel feels it has its back against the wall due to an embargo it will fight to obtain what it needs. It will not roll over and let the biased world dictate to it."

" In fact, if anyone launched a nuclear attack against Israel they would be wiped off the map by their allies. I don't know what Lemon Law was thinking suggesting that anyone would fire nuclear missiles at Israel."

And how can Israel take what it wants in the event of an world wide embargo, without resorting to nukes? And while I do not suggest anyone would make a preemptive nuclear strike against Israel, you can bet your sweet bippie that there are a large set of nations would nuke Israel, if they made a nuclear strike against anyone first.

And at the end of the day, the larger unbiased world is coming to the realization that a biased Israel is the entity that prevents a larger mid-east peace. And as the USA comes to the realization that its blank checks to Israel prevents such a peace, it leaves Israel forced to change or Israel will not have a single ally left in the world.

Face the facts, after 61 years, the Israeli policy has failed to bring any peace, and Israeli, even if they are a regional military power, can't hope as pure aggressor to take what it want. Them days are NOW OVER.

Actually that first quote was Common Courtesy.

But to respond to the quote that was mine, do you have any proof that Israel's allies would turn on it? You seem to have conjecture without a basis.

I don't appreciate your weird 2nd person personal attacks either.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ah therein lies the JS80 denial, as he says, "The irony is there would be no more terrorism and there would finally be peace in Israel if they did act like Nazis."

Maybe that is the Israeli mistake, they can't be true Nazis if they do not start up the gas ovens and kill all 3-4 millions Palestinians, but Israel simply does everything the Nazis did to loot land and possessions, and transport them to concentration camps, but fail in not having a final solution of gas ovens to wipe them off the face of the earth. Otherwise, sadly, Israel is and remains a Nazi state in almost every other way.

IMHO, the formation of the State of Israel was a correct decision, and Israel, given very wrong attacks by Arab States had some original justifications, those times are now past, and there is no longer any justification for Israel to continue to be a apartheid Nazi state. Down that road lies an end doom for Israel, and the time is rapidly running out.

Loot land and possessions? The greatest lie ever spread by the palestinians is that they got their land stolen. Sans the land won in war, Jews have been purchasing land to achieve Zionism since before WW2.

But not acting like Nazis is exactly what makes them, and the US, morally superior to these Islamofacists. If we did what it truly took to "achieve peace" we would be no better than them. We do have the military might to round up all muslims including innocents and gas them in the oven. And guess what? There would be no more Islamic terrorism.

Instead we drop some bombs and pour water down some worthless piece of shits. Boo fucking hoo.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ah therein lies the JS80 denial, as he says, "The irony is there would be no more terrorism and there would finally be peace in Israel if they did act like Nazis."

Maybe that is the Israeli mistake, they can't be true Nazis if they do not start up the gas ovens and kill all 3-4 millions Palestinians, but Israel simply does everything the Nazis did to loot land and possessions, and transport them to concentration camps, but fail in not having a final solution of gas ovens to wipe them off the face of the earth. Otherwise, sadly, Israel is and remains a Nazi state in almost every other way.

IMHO, the formation of the State of Israel was a correct decision, and Israel, given very wrong attacks by Arab States had some original justifications, those times are now past, and there is no longer any justification for Israel to continue to be a apartheid Nazi state. Down that road lies an end doom for Israel, and the time is rapidly running out.

Loot land and possessions? The greatest lie ever spread by the palestinians is that they got their land stolen. Sans the land won in war, Jews have been purchasing land to achieve Zionism since before WW2.

But not acting like Nazis is exactly what makes them, and the US, morally superior to these Islamofacists. If we did what it truly took to "achieve peace" we would be no better than them. We do have the military might to round up all muslims including innocents and gas them in the oven. And guess what? There would be no more Islamic terrorism.

Instead we drop some bombs and pour water down some worthless piece of shits. Boo fucking hoo.

Hahaha, riiiiiiiiight. Just like the actual Nazis had the military might to destroy the French and Russian partisans. Just like the Soviets had the military might to crush the Afghans. You vastly overestimate.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ah therein lies the JS80 denial, as he says, "The irony is there would be no more terrorism and there would finally be peace in Israel if they did act like Nazis."

Maybe that is the Israeli mistake, they can't be true Nazis if they do not start up the gas ovens and kill all 3-4 millions Palestinians, but Israel simply does everything the Nazis did to loot land and possessions, and transport them to concentration camps, but fail in not having a final solution of gas ovens to wipe them off the face of the earth. Otherwise, sadly, Israel is and remains a Nazi state in almost every other way.

IMHO, the formation of the State of Israel was a correct decision, and Israel, given very wrong attacks by Arab States had some original justifications, those times are now past, and there is no longer any justification for Israel to continue to be a apartheid Nazi state. Down that road lies an end doom for Israel, and the time is rapidly running out.

Loot land and possessions? The greatest lie ever spread by the palestinians is that they got their land stolen. Sans the land won in war, Jews have been purchasing land to achieve Zionism since before WW2.

But not acting like Nazis is exactly what makes them, and the US, morally superior to these Islamofacists. If we did what it truly took to "achieve peace" we would be no better than them. We do have the military might to round up all muslims including innocents and gas them in the oven. And guess what? There would be no more Islamic terrorism.

Instead we drop some bombs and pour water down some worthless piece of shits. Boo fucking hoo.

Of course you're too stupid to see that genocide like that would be against Israel's interests because the world would turn against them. Instead they use 'convenient' excuses to kill off Palestinians the old fashioned way. Why use gas when you can use conventional military weapons to commit genocide funded by the gold ol' USA?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ah therein lies the JS80 denial, as he says, "The irony is there would be no more terrorism and there would finally be peace in Israel if they did act like Nazis."

Maybe that is the Israeli mistake, they can't be true Nazis if they do not start up the gas ovens and kill all 3-4 millions Palestinians, but Israel simply does everything the Nazis did to loot land and possessions, and transport them to concentration camps, but fail in not having a final solution of gas ovens to wipe them off the face of the earth. Otherwise, sadly, Israel is and remains a Nazi state in almost every other way.

IMHO, the formation of the State of Israel was a correct decision, and Israel, given very wrong attacks by Arab States had some original justifications, those times are now past, and there is no longer any justification for Israel to continue to be a apartheid Nazi state. Down that road lies an end doom for Israel, and the time is rapidly running out.

Loot land and possessions? The greatest lie ever spread by the palestinians is that they got their land stolen. Sans the land won in war, Jews have been purchasing land to achieve Zionism since before WW2.

But not acting like Nazis is exactly what makes them, and the US, morally superior to these Islamofacists. If we did what it truly took to "achieve peace" we would be no better than them. We do have the military might to round up all muslims including innocents and gas them in the oven. And guess what? There would be no more Islamic terrorism.

Instead we drop some bombs and pour water down some worthless piece of shits. Boo fucking hoo.

Of course you're too stupid to see that genocide like that would be against Israel's interests because the world would turn against them. Instead they use 'convenient' excuses to kill off Palestinians the old fashioned way. Why use gas when you can use conventional military weapons to commit genocide funded by the gold ol' USA?

I'm sure you'd be happy if Israel just tried to give big hugs to the Palestinian Militants shooting rockets at them.

Israel is defending themselves against terrorist attacks, nothing more.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JS80
Loot land and possessions? The greatest lie ever spread by the palestinians is that they got their land stolen. Sans the land won in war, Jews have been purchasing land to achieve Zionism since before WW2.

You are the one who has been mislead here, as I've mentioned to you before. As I explained a bit later in that thread, around a third of Israeli settlements in the West Bank are built on land owned by Palestinian individuals, taken under force of occupation. Furthermore, back in '47-'48 Zionist militias and terrorist groups depopulated hundreds of villages.

Beyond that, Jewish land ownership in Palestine shortly prior to the partition was less than a measly 6%, as accounted by British mandate records. Put simply, Zionists have quite literally been making out like bandits in Palestine.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I'm sure you'd be happy if Israel just tried to give big hugs to the Palestinian Militants shooting rockets at them.

Straw man.

Israel is defending themselves against terrorist attacks, nothing more.

And lies.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I'm sure you'd be happy if Israel just tried to give big hugs to the Palestinian Militants shooting rockets at them.

Straw man.

Israel is defending themselves against terrorist attacks, nothing more.

And lies.

:laugh:

I think you need to learn what a straw man is. I didn't misrepresent your position, you want Israel to NOT attack the Palestinian terrorists who are killing innocents.

Also, not a lie. I'm not going to be a terrorist sympathizer just to make you happy.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Phokus makes the interesting quote, " Ehud Olmert, then Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, commented in April 2004 that; "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated, two-state solution, because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one. From a struggle against 'occupation,' in their parlance, to a struggle for one-man-one-vote. That is, of course, a much cleaner struggle, a much more popular struggle - and ultimately a much more powerful one. For us, it would mean the end of the Jewish state."[31] Olmert made a similar remark in November 2007: "If the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then the State of Israel is finished."[32][33]"

But the real question is, in such a one man one vote situation, would the State of Israel be finished or have a new beginning? Not every Nation can be lucky enough to come up with a Nelson Meddella, and all too frequently, we get a real rascal instead.

One interesting to note is how Americans are all for 'secular states' and agianst a state based on religion - except for Israel.

Many are happy to oppose Israel merely guaranteeing the rights of a Jewish minority with constitutional protections for all religions, and insist the nation be a Jewish nation.

On the other hand, they'd cheer the conversion of Muslim states to secular states with constituional protections for all religions.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Phokus makes the interesting quote, " Ehud Olmert, then Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, commented in April 2004 that; "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated, two-state solution, because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one. From a struggle against 'occupation,' in their parlance, to a struggle for one-man-one-vote. That is, of course, a much cleaner struggle, a much more popular struggle - and ultimately a much more powerful one. For us, it would mean the end of the Jewish state."[31] Olmert made a similar remark in November 2007: "If the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then the State of Israel is finished."[32][33]"

But the real question is, in such a one man one vote situation, would the State of Israel be finished or have a new beginning? Not every Nation can be lucky enough to come up with a Nelson Meddella, and all too frequently, we get a real rascal instead.

One interesting to note is how Americans are all for 'secular states' and agianst a state based on religion - except for Israel.

Many are happy to oppose Israel merely guaranteeing the rights of a Jewish minority with constitutional protections for all religions, and insist the nation be a Jewish nation.

On the other hand, they'd cheer the conversion of Muslim states to secular states with constituional protections for all religions.

Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

Hey, big difference here, pay close attention. If you disobey the Jewish law, you don't get STONED AND IMPRISONED. I know, hard concept for you to grasp.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I'm sure you'd be happy if Israel just tried to give big hugs to the Palestinian Militants shooting rockets at them.

Straw man.

Israel is defending themselves against terrorist attacks, nothing more.

And lies.

:laugh:

I think you need to learn what a straw man is.

That's because you are clueless when confronted with the accurate use of the phrase.

A straw man is when you argue against one argument by misrepresenting it as a different and weaker argument you can defeat. The metaphor is that instead of fighitng the man, you make a phony man filled with straw who you can stab and stab, because it doesn't hit back.

I didn't misrepresent your position, you want Israel to NOT attack the Palestinian terrorists who are killing innocents.

First, it was not my position you had attacked, it was Phokus'.

Second, you are not honest again. You say his position is for Israel to "give big hugs" to their attackers - and then you deny that you misrepresented his position.

That's far from his position - it's a straw man you can attack, since you don't care to honestly respond to the issue.

Where did Phokus oppose effective measures to stop the attacks that include justice for the Palestinians, where did he oppose the truce that nearly eliminated the attacks?

The fact you deny the phrase "give big hugs" is a straw man discredits you utterly.

Also, not a lie. I'm not going to be a terrorist sympathizer just to make you happy.

And another straw man. You are a liar for saying that Israel is doing *nothing but* defending themselves against terrorist attacks. Right, like Russia did nothing but defend themselves against Chechnyan terrorist attacks - Israel has never done anything to repress Palestenians other than to go after the rocket launchers. It's clearly a lie, so you lie about the lie and claim you did not say that, rather you simply 'refuse to be a terrorist sympahthizer'. You lie like other people breath.

You are clearly incapable of any honest discussion at this time, merely acting as an advocate for one side without much if any regard for the truth.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

You are reading that chart wrong, it says 40.6% of the world Jewish population is in Israel. Granted, they are counting Israeli settlers the West Bank in that figure. As for the the percentage of Israelis who are Jewish, that is about 80%, though most only ethnically rather than religiously so.

But you are correct that Israel isn't a religious state, it is ethnic nationalist state, and while Jewish ethnicity is based in religion, the state itself is secular.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige
I'm sure you'd be happy if Israel just tried to give big hugs to the Palestinian Militants shooting rockets at them.

Straw man.

Israel is defending themselves against terrorist attacks, nothing more.

And lies.

:laugh:

I think you need to learn what a straw man is.

That's because you are clueless when confronted with the accurate use of the phrase.

A straw man is when you argue against one argument by misrepresenting it as a different and weaker argument you can defeat. The metaphor is that instead of fighitng the man, you make a phony man filled with straw who you can stab and stab, because it doesn't hit back.

I didn't misrepresent your position, you want Israel to NOT attack the Palestinian terrorists who are killing innocents.

First, it was not my position you had attacked, it was Phokus'.

Second, you are not honest again. You say his position is for Israel to "give big hugs" to their attackers - and then you deny that you misrepresented his position.

That's far from his position - it's a straw man you can attack, since you don't care to honestly respond to the issue.

Where did Phokus oppose effective measures to stop the attacks that include justice for the Palestinians, where did he oppose the truce that nearly eliminated the attacks?

The fact you deny the phrase "give big hugs" is a straw man discredits you utterly.

Also, not a lie. I'm not going to be a terrorist sympathizer just to make you happy.

And another straw man. You are a liar for saying that Israel is doing *nothing but* defending themselves against terrorist attacks. Right, like Russia did nothing but defend themselves against Chechnyan terrorist attacks - Israel has never done anything to repress Palestenians other than to go after the rocket launchers. It's clearly a lie, so you lie about the lie and claim you did not say that, rather you simply 'refuse to be a terrorist sympahthizer'. You lie like other people breath.

You are clearly incapable of any honest discussion at this time, merely acting as an advocate for one side without much if any regard for the truth.

Listen, you are about as smart as a "phony man stuffed with straw", because I replied to you, and addressed you directly. Trying to divert to avoid showing your blatant ignorance is not helping your case.

Israel has done nothing but defend itself against Palestinian terrorists. They had to push in to stop supply lines and attack terrorist bases.

Thank goodness you are not in charge of a country. You'd think anything not sitting right in front of you is not a threat.

If you want to try and protect your ridiculous claims and give them credence, you could stop going after me like a five year old "You're stupid! You lie!". It's embarrassing.

As it is you've put throughout these threads several facts I've refuted. I've shown without a doubt that the PLO and Hamas are out to kill innocent civilians and Israel is protecting their country men. In fact, Israeli's die every day to keep from harming Palestinian civilians during the fight against the terrorists you defend.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

You are reading that chart wrong, it says 40.6% of the world Jewish population is in Israel. Granted, they are counting Israeli settlers the West Bank in that figure. As for the the percentage of Israelis who are Jewish, that is about 80%, though most only ethnically rather than religiously so.

But you are correct that Israel isn't a religious state, it is ethnic nationalist state, and while Jewish ethnicity is based in religion, the state itself is secular.

Opps, I thought that sounded off. Should of looked closer.

The main point still stands that unlike many Arab nations the Muslim religion hasn't been built in to the laws, it is a fair system.

Thanks.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Phokus makes the interesting quote, " Ehud Olmert, then Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, commented in April 2004 that; "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated, two-state solution, because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one. From a struggle against 'occupation,' in their parlance, to a struggle for one-man-one-vote. That is, of course, a much cleaner struggle, a much more popular struggle - and ultimately a much more powerful one. For us, it would mean the end of the Jewish state."[31] Olmert made a similar remark in November 2007: "If the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then the State of Israel is finished."[32][33]"

But the real question is, in such a one man one vote situation, would the State of Israel be finished or have a new beginning? Not every Nation can be lucky enough to come up with a Nelson Meddella, and all too frequently, we get a real rascal instead.

One interesting to note is how Americans are all for 'secular states' and agianst a state based on religion - except for Israel.

Many are happy to oppose Israel merely guaranteeing the rights of a Jewish minority with constitutional protections for all religions, and insist the nation be a Jewish nation.

On the other hand, they'd cheer the conversion of Muslim states to secular states with constituional protections for all religions.

Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

Hey, big difference here, pay close attention. If you disobey the Jewish law, you don't get STONED AND IMPRISONED. I know, hard concept for you to grasp.

Wikipedia:

Israel was established as a homeland for the Jewish people and is often referred to as the Jewish state. The country's Law of Return grants all Jews and those of Jewish lineage the right to Israeli citizenship.[233] Just over three quarters, or 75.5%, of the population are Jews from a diversity of Jewish backgrounds. Approximately 68% of Israeli Jews are Israeli-born, 22% are immigrants from Europe and the Americas, and 10% are immigrants from Asia and Africa (including the Arab World).[234] The religious affiliation of Israeli Jews varies widely: 55% say they are "traditional," while 20% consider themselves "secular Jews," 17% define themselves as "Orthodox Jews"; the final 8% define themselves as "Haredi Jews."[235]

Shrine of the Báb in HaifaMaking up 16.2% of the population, Muslims constitute Israel's largest religious minority. About 2% of the population are Christian and 1.5% are Druze.[236] Members of many other religious groups, including Buddhists and Hindus, maintain a presence in Israel, albeit in small numbers.[237] The Christian population includes both Arab Christians and Messianic Jews.[238]

Israeli officials have regularly discussed the fact that they view the growing Palestinian population as a threat to their being a Jewish state and indicate they won't allow a non-Jewish majority to develop that changes the situation of Israel being a Jewish state. Do you need me to google that for you too, or can you do your own research this time?

You aren't just wrong, you are obnoxiously wrong. You can't read your own chart as being what it is - a list of the distribution of Jews aroung *the world* where Israel has 40% of the global Jewish population, which you mistakenly represented as Jews making 40% of the Israeli populaiton - you have to be insulting while doing so, 'are you high'. I'll stop wasting my time with the rest of your insulting errors, you have wasted the forum's time enough.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Listen, you are about as smart as a "phony man stuffed with straw", because I replied to you, and addressed you directly. Trying to divert to avoid showing your blatant ignorance is not helping your case.

Israel has done nothing but defend itself against Palestinian terrorists. They had to push in to stop supply lines and attack terrorist bases.

Thank goodness you are not in charge of a country. You'd think anything not sitting right in front of you is not a threat.

If you want to try and protect your ridiculous claims and give them credence, you could stop going after me like a five year old "You're stupid! You lie!". It's embarrassing.

As it is you've put throughout these threads several facts I've refuted. I've shown without a doubt that the PLO and Hamas are out to kill innocent civilians and Israel is protecting their country men. In fact, Israeli's die every day to keep from harming Palestinian civilians during the fight against the terrorists you defend.

Now, I"m not even reading your post the first sign of idiotic nonsense. My position:

I'll stop wasting my time with the rest of your insulting errors...

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Listen, you are about as smart as a "phony man stuffed with straw", because I replied to you, and addressed you directly. Trying to divert to avoid showing your blatant ignorance is not helping your case.

Israel has done nothing but defend itself against Palestinian terrorists. They had to push in to stop supply lines and attack terrorist bases.

Thank goodness you are not in charge of a country. You'd think anything not sitting right in front of you is not a threat.

If you want to try and protect your ridiculous claims and give them credence, you could stop going after me like a five year old "You're stupid! You lie!". It's embarrassing.

As it is you've put throughout these threads several facts I've refuted. I've shown without a doubt that the PLO and Hamas are out to kill innocent civilians and Israel is protecting their country men. In fact, Israeli's die every day to keep from harming Palestinian civilians during the fight against the terrorists you defend.

Now, I"m not even reading your post the first sign of idiotic nonsense. My position:

I'll stop wasting my time with the rest of your insulting errors...

:laugh:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

You are reading that chart wrong, it says 40.6% of the world Jewish population is in Israel. Granted, they are counting Israeli settlers the West Bank in that figure. As for the the percentage of Israelis who are Jewish, that is about 80%, though most only ethnically rather than religiously so.

But you are correct that Israel isn't a religious state, it is ethnic nationalist state, and while Jewish ethnicity is based in religion, the state itself is secular.

Opps, I thought that sounded off.

Obviously, you thought that, or why would you have prefaced it with 'are you high?'

Should of looked closer.

Should have gotten a clue on a lot of things without the tone that makes you look bad.

The main point still stands that unlike many Arab nations the Muslim religion hasn't been built in to the laws, it is a fair system.

No one's defended the Muslim nations for their being religious states. Israel has a 'nudge nudge wink wink' status as a 'secular' state based on a Jewish majority as poliicy.

They don't shy away from being "THE Jewish state' and indeed have reportedly sough recognition as exactly that from their neighbors.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Israel has a 'nudge nudge wink wink' status as a 'secular' state based on a Jewish majority as poliicy.

They don't shy away from being "THE Jewish state' and indeed have reportedly sough recognition as exactly that from their neighbors.

Like I said, it is an ethnic nationalist state. It is much like the white supremacists in the US who bitch about being made into a minority, but the ethnic nationalism in Israel has far more support. Again, most Jews in Israel aren't religious anyway, and their government certainly isn't.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Are you high on something? Only 40% of Israel is comprised of Jews. It is not a "religious state".

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...ce/Judaism/jewpop.html

You are reading that chart wrong, it says 40.6% of the world Jewish population is in Israel. Granted, they are counting Israeli settlers the West Bank in that figure. As for the the percentage of Israelis who are Jewish, that is about 80%, though most only ethnically rather than religiously so.

But you are correct that Israel isn't a religious state, it is ethnic nationalist state, and while Jewish ethnicity is based in religion, the state itself is secular.

Opps, I thought that sounded off.

Obviously, you thought that, or why would you have prefaced it with 'are you high?'

Should of looked closer.

Should have gotten a clue on a lot of things without the tone that makes you look bad.

The main point still stands that unlike many Arab nations the Muslim religion hasn't been built in to the laws, it is a fair system.

No one's defended the Muslim nations for their being religious states. Israel has a 'nudge nudge wink wink' status as a 'secular' state based on a Jewish majority as poliicy.

They don't shy away from being "THE Jewish state' and indeed have reportedly sough recognition as exactly that from their neighbors.

Blah, blah. You are hurt that you have been proven wrong so much that you are just digging.

Why don't you try to talk without being a total ass? Your point was wrong, Israel is not a religious state (which you seem to condemn), yet the states that are you seem to praise.

Sorry, your point was muddled and made absolutely zero sense. Try again when you can have a discussion like a competent individual.

:laugh:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Craig234
Israel has a 'nudge nudge wink wink' status as a 'secular' state based on a Jewish majority as poliicy.

They don't shy away from being "THE Jewish state' and indeed have reportedly sough recognition as exactly that from their neighbors.

Like I said, it is an ethnic nationalist state. It is much like the white supremacists in the US who bitch about being made into a minority, but the ethnic nationalism in Israel has far more support. Again, most Jews in Israel aren't religious anyway, and their government certainly isn't.

Well, it gets into the whole 'race vs. religion' issue of defining who Jews are - I agree with you that it's not the traditional 'religious state' in the way some Muslim states are with for example Sharia law being enshrined into the nation's laws as it was in Iraq, but it clearly has an identity as a 'Jewish state' that's stronger than simply being a secular atate that just happens to have a majority of Jewish citizens. And its culture is clearly largely dominated by the conflicts with Muslim neighbors that include the sort of conflicts that are between religious groups - though I've long said I think most 'religious wars' in the world are more about power between groups that religion happens to be the defining divide, than the actual religious beliefs themselves.

Of course, we're not much to talk in the US, insofar as we have clearly secular laws providing for equality of religions under the law, yet a Muslim would not have almost any chance to actually win the Presidency for reasons of cultural bias/bigotry. The bottom line is that the current culture and government of Israel seem to mostly view Israel as a 'Jewish state' and have a determination to protect Jewish control, religious or not.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Blah, blah. You are hurt that you have been proven wrong so much that you are just digging.

Zero times is not many. Check the mirror on that.

Why don't you try to talk without being a total ass?

Your mirror is going to get a lot of use.

Your point was wrong, Israel is not a religious state (which you seem to condemn), yet the states that are you seem to praise.

It is how I described it. You're back to your straw men *again*. And you are lying *again*, as I did not praise other 'religious states' for being religious states.

Sorry, your point was muddled and made absolutely zero sense.

The problem lies not in my post, but between your keyboard and your chair.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Blah, blah. You are hurt that you have been proven wrong so much that you are just digging.

Zero times is not many. Check the mirror on that.

Why don't you try to talk without being a total ass?

Your mirror is going to get a lot of use.

Your point was wrong, Israel is not a religious state (which you seem to condemn), yet the states that are you seem to praise.

It is how I described it. You're back to your straw men *again*. And you are lying *again*, as I did not praise other 'religious states' for being religious states.

Sorry, your point was muddled and made absolutely zero sense.

The problem lies not in my post, but between your keyboard and your chair.

Sorry you failed yet again to make a post that makes sense.

You've been proven wrong, and proof has been shown that Israel has not been the root aggressor.

Proof has been shown of the terror campaign waged by the Palestinians.

I just proved your most recent points wrong as well, and you couldn't rebuke them so you just replied with this mess of a post.

You are not capable of making a point that sticks, nothing between my keyboard and chair can help you with that.

:laugh:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Sorry you failed yet again to make a post that makes sense.

The problem lies not in my post, but between your keyboard and your chair.

You've been proven wrong, and proof has been shown that Israel has not been the root aggressor.

You've been 'proven wrong', you have made up straw men and proven them wrong.

Proof has been shown of the terror campaign waged by the Palestinians.

Nothing you 'proved' had been denied.

I just proved your most recent points wrong as well, and you couldn't rebuke them so you just replied with this mess of a post.

You've proven nothing wrong, not as well or otherwise.

You are not capable of making a point that sticks, nothing between my keyboard and chair can help you with that.

I can't make a point stick to an idiot, you are right. That's not a flaw in the point.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Well, it gets into the whole 'race vs. religion' issue of defining who Jews are...

Sure and Israel does so ethnically in their Law of Return, accepting as Jewish anyone who can prove recent Jewish ancestry regardless of what religious convictions they may or may not hold. Granted, the law also accepts those who don't have Jewish ancestry but have undergone full Orthodox conversion, but again the majority of the population is ethnically but not religiously Jewish. Furthermore, the vast majority of the Zionist movement was non-relgious, and at least until around the time of the Holocaust, the movement was contested by long standing Rabbinical consensus.

Originally posted by: Craig234
I agree with you that it's not the traditional 'religious state' in the way some Muslim states are with for example Sharia law being enshrined into the nation's laws as it was in Iraq...

Actually. Saddam abolished the Sharia courts and ran a secular government. That was one of the stated reasons our government supported him back in the day.

Originally posted by: Craig234
...but it clearly has an identity as a 'Jewish state' that's stronger than simply being a secular atate that just happens to have a majority of Jewish citizens.

Sure, it was quite intentional. As I said Israel is founded in ethnic nationalism, creating and maintaining a state with a strong majority of Jewish citizens was exactly the point of the Zionist movement from its beginning.