Israel spying on the United States

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
great article on Alternet today about the history of Israel spying in the US.

but first, some comments.

in 1993 i put an ad in the computer section of the SF phone book, which kind of made it look like i had an entire GE engineering lab in my apartment-full-of-tech.

this resulted in 2 very interesting job interviews - the second of which took place at 150 Montgomery Street in October 1994 - Pacific Bell corporate headquarters.

and a few blocks from the closet-full of NSA spy-tech referred to in this article @ Alternet.

during the first interview, my interviewees put me through the paces on some CG stuff, "draw this, draw that". for me it was fun; i later realized that they were trying to see how i responded to pressure.

towards the end of the interview, the older of the 2 interviewers pretended to get a phone call and stood in my foyer, which gave him a chance to look at all the books in my library at the time. the other interviewer was a young woman.

the older guy then came back in and we had the "tell me about yourself" part of the interview. he told me that he had spent his career fighting communism "from the Baltic to the Aegean", and said he noticed my book about the JFK assassination (written by district attorney James Garrison). i said, "you guys did it, didn't you ?"

he didn't exactly smile, and they left my apartment pretty quickly.

then invited me back for a second interview.

at the second interview, there were more references to government intelligence agencies, and a top to bottom tour of the network at Pac Bell corporate headquarters. it was an interview that most hard-core AT'ers would have flipped over. in 1994, Pac Bell HQ was all managers, IT equipment, and contractors - no employees.

part of that interview involved a live video teleconference with their facility in SoCal. which, i subsequently realized, gave them a chance to video-tape me for subsequent review.

in other words, they had a Skype-video-like set-up - in 1994.

the rest, as they say, is history. i have no doubt that i was interviewing with the crew that was involved with the larger operation unveiled in Mark Klein's subsequent lawsuit - also referred to in the article below.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

article, Israel's Spying Activities in the United States

"Breaking the Taboo on Israel's Spying Efforts on the United States

By Christopher Ketcham, AlterNet. Posted March 10, 2009.

Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S., yet public discussion about it is almost nil. "


"Scratch a counterintelligence officer in the U.S. government and they'll tell you that Israel is not a friend to the United States.

This is because Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S.. The fact of Israeli penetration into the country is not a subject oft-discussed in the media or in the circles of governance, due to the extreme sensitivity of the U.S.-Israel relationship coupled with the burden of the Israel lobby, which punishes legislators who dare to criticize the Jewish state. "


"Israel's spying on the U.S., however, is a matter of public record, and neither conspiracy nor theory is needed to present the evidence. When the FBI produces its annual report to Congress concerning "Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage," Israel and its intelligence services often feature prominently as a threat second only to China. In 2005 the FBI noted, for example, that Israel maintains "an active program to gather proprietary information within the United States." A key Israeli method, said the FBI report, is computer intrusion. In 1996, the Defense Intelligence Service, a branch of the Pentagon, issued a warning that "the collection of scientific intelligence in the United States [is] the third highest priority of Israeli Intelligence after information on its Arab neighbors and information on secret U.S. policies or decisions relating to Israel." In 1979, the Central Intelligence Agency produced a scathing survey of Israeli intelligence activities that targeted the U.S. government."


"Other deep cover operations included the penetration of a U.S. company that provided weapons-grade uranium to the Department of Defense during the 1960s; Israeli agents eventually spirited home an estimated 200 pounds of uranium as the bulwark in Israel?s secret nuclear weapons program."


"By the mid-1990s, Israeli wiretap firms would arrive in the U.S. in a big way. The key to the kingdom was the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), which was Congress? solution for wiretapping in the digital age. Gone are the days when wiretaps were conducted through on-site tinkering with copper switches. CALEA mandated that telephonic surveillance operate through computers linked directly into the routers and hubs of telecom companies -- a spyware apparatus matched in real-time, all the time, to American telephones and modems. CALEA effectively made spy equipment an inextricable ligature in telephonic life. Without CALEA, the NSA in its spectacular surveillance exploits could not have succeeded.

AT&T and Verizon, which together manage as much as 90 percent of the nation?s communications traffic, contracted with Israeli firms in order to comply with CALEA. AT&T employed the services of Narus Inc., which was founded in Israel in 1997. It was Narus technology that AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein, a 22-year technician with the company, famously unveiled in a 2006 affidavit that described the operations in AT&T?s secret tapping room at its San Francisco facilities. (Klein?s affidavit formed the gravamen of a lawsuit against AT&T mounted by the Electronic Freedom Foundation, but the lawsuit died when Congress passed the telecom immunity bill last year.) According to Klein, the Narus supercomputer, the STA 6400, was "known to be used particularly by government intelligence agencies because of its ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed targets." The Narus system, which was maintained by Narus technicans, also provided a real-time mirror image of all data streaming through AT&T routers, an image to be rerouted into the computers of the NSA."
 

andapplepie

Banned
Feb 14, 2008
5
0
0
Originally posted by: wwswimming
at the second interview, there were more references to government intelligence agencies, and a top to bottom tour of the network at Pac Bell corporate headquarters. it was an interview that most hard-core AT'ers would have flipped over. in 1994, Pac Bell HQ was all managers, IT equipment, and contractors - no employees.

part of that interview involved a live video teleconference with their facility in SoCal. which, i subsequently realized, gave them a chance to video-tape me for subsequent review.

in other words, they had a Skype-video-like set-up - in 1994.

the rest, as they say, is history. i have no doubt that i was interviewing with the crew that was involved with the larger operation unveiled in Mark Klein's subsequent lawsuit - also referred to in the article below.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

AT&T and Verizon, which together manage as much as 90 percent of the nation?s communications traffic, contracted with Israeli firms in order to comply with CALEA. AT&T employed the services of Narus Inc., which was founded in Israel in 1997. It was Narus technology that AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein, a 22-year technician with the company, famously unveiled in a 2006 affidavit that described the operations in AT&T?s secret tapping room at its San Francisco facilities. (Klein?s affidavit formed the gravamen of a lawsuit against AT&T mounted by the Electronic Freedom Foundation, but the lawsuit died when Congress passed the telecom immunity bill last year.) According to Klein, the Narus supercomputer, the STA 6400, was "known to be used particularly by government intelligence agencies because of its ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed targets." The Narus system, which was maintained by Narus technicans, also provided a real-time mirror image of all data streaming through AT&T routers, an image to be rerouted into the computers of the NSA."

That's quite the introduction to Anandtech.

I like San Francisco - it's not so liberal anymore.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: andapplepie
Originally posted by: wwswimming
at the second interview, there were more references to government intelligence agencies, and a top to bottom tour of the network at Pac Bell corporate headquarters. it was an interview that most hard-core AT'ers would have flipped over. in 1994, Pac Bell HQ was all managers, IT equipment, and contractors - no employees.

part of that interview involved a live video teleconference with their facility in SoCal. which, i subsequently realized, gave them a chance to video-tape me for subsequent review.

in other words, they had a Skype-video-like set-up - in 1994.

the rest, as they say, is history. i have no doubt that i was interviewing with the crew that was involved with the larger operation unveiled in Mark Klein's subsequent lawsuit - also referred to in the article below.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

AT&T and Verizon, which together manage as much as 90 percent of the nation?s communications traffic, contracted with Israeli firms in order to comply with CALEA. AT&T employed the services of Narus Inc., which was founded in Israel in 1997. It was Narus technology that AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein, a 22-year technician with the company, famously unveiled in a 2006 affidavit that described the operations in AT&T?s secret tapping room at its San Francisco facilities. (Klein?s affidavit formed the gravamen of a lawsuit against AT&T mounted by the Electronic Freedom Foundation, but the lawsuit died when Congress passed the telecom immunity bill last year.) According to Klein, the Narus supercomputer, the STA 6400, was "known to be used particularly by government intelligence agencies because of its ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed targets." The Narus system, which was maintained by Narus technicans, also provided a real-time mirror image of all data streaming through AT&T routers, an image to be rerouted into the computers of the NSA."

That's quite the introduction to Anandtech.

I like San Francisco - it's not so liberal anymore.

Welcome, Applepie.

:)
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
It is a well known fact that the Israel spys on us. So does our "Special relationship" partner Britian. We also spy on all of them.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: wwswimming
great article on Alternet today about the history of Israel spying in the US.

but first, some comments.

in 1993 i put an ad in the computer section of the SF phone book, which kind of made it look like i had an entire GE engineering lab in my apartment-full-of-tech.

this resulted in 2 very interesting job interviews - the second of which took place at 150 Montgomery Street in October 1994 - Pacific Bell corporate headquarters.

and a few blocks from the closet-full of NSA spy-tech referred to in this article @ Alternet.

during the first interview, my interviewees put me through the paces on some CG stuff, "draw this, draw that". for me it was fun; i later realized that they were trying to see how i responded to pressure.

towards the end of the interview, the older of the 2 interviewers pretended to get a phone call and stood in my foyer, which gave him a chance to look at all the books in my library at the time. the other interviewer was a young woman.

the older guy then came back in and we had the "tell me about yourself" part of the interview. he told me that he had spent his career fighting communism "from the Baltic to the Aegean", and said he noticed my book about the JFK assassination (written by district attorney James Garrison). i said, "you guys did it, didn't you ?"

he didn't exactly smile, and they left my apartment pretty quickly.

then invited me back for a second interview.

at the second interview, there were more references to government intelligence agencies, and a top to bottom tour of the network at Pac Bell corporate headquarters. it was an interview that most hard-core AT'ers would have flipped over. in 1994, Pac Bell HQ was all managers, IT equipment, and contractors - no employees.

part of that interview involved a live video teleconference with their facility in SoCal. which, i subsequently realized, gave them a chance to video-tape me for subsequent review.

in other words, they had a Skype-video-like set-up - in 1994.

the rest, as they say, is history. i have no doubt that i was interviewing with the crew that was involved with the larger operation unveiled in Mark Klein's subsequent lawsuit - also referred to in the article below.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

article, Israel's Spying Activities in the United States

"Breaking the Taboo on Israel's Spying Efforts on the United States

By Christopher Ketcham, AlterNet. Posted March 10, 2009.

Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S., yet public discussion about it is almost nil. "


"Scratch a counterintelligence officer in the U.S. government and they'll tell you that Israel is not a friend to the United States.

This is because Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S.. The fact of Israeli penetration into the country is not a subject oft-discussed in the media or in the circles of governance, due to the extreme sensitivity of the U.S.-Israel relationship coupled with the burden of the Israel lobby, which punishes legislators who dare to criticize the Jewish state. "


"Israel's spying on the U.S., however, is a matter of public record, and neither conspiracy nor theory is needed to present the evidence. When the FBI produces its annual report to Congress concerning "Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage," Israel and its intelligence services often feature prominently as a threat second only to China. In 2005 the FBI noted, for example, that Israel maintains "an active program to gather proprietary information within the United States." A key Israeli method, said the FBI report, is computer intrusion. In 1996, the Defense Intelligence Service, a branch of the Pentagon, issued a warning that "the collection of scientific intelligence in the United States [is] the third highest priority of Israeli Intelligence after information on its Arab neighbors and information on secret U.S. policies or decisions relating to Israel." In 1979, the Central Intelligence Agency produced a scathing survey of Israeli intelligence activities that targeted the U.S. government."


"Other deep cover operations included the penetration of a U.S. company that provided weapons-grade uranium to the Department of Defense during the 1960s; Israeli agents eventually spirited home an estimated 200 pounds of uranium as the bulwark in Israel?s secret nuclear weapons program."


"By the mid-1990s, Israeli wiretap firms would arrive in the U.S. in a big way. The key to the kingdom was the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), which was Congress? solution for wiretapping in the digital age. Gone are the days when wiretaps were conducted through on-site tinkering with copper switches. CALEA mandated that telephonic surveillance operate through computers linked directly into the routers and hubs of telecom companies -- a spyware apparatus matched in real-time, all the time, to American telephones and modems. CALEA effectively made spy equipment an inextricable ligature in telephonic life. Without CALEA, the NSA in its spectacular surveillance exploits could not have succeeded.

AT&T and Verizon, which together manage as much as 90 percent of the nation?s communications traffic, contracted with Israeli firms in order to comply with CALEA. AT&T employed the services of Narus Inc., which was founded in Israel in 1997. It was Narus technology that AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein, a 22-year technician with the company, famously unveiled in a 2006 affidavit that described the operations in AT&T?s secret tapping room at its San Francisco facilities. (Klein?s affidavit formed the gravamen of a lawsuit against AT&T mounted by the Electronic Freedom Foundation, but the lawsuit died when Congress passed the telecom immunity bill last year.) According to Klein, the Narus supercomputer, the STA 6400, was "known to be used particularly by government intelligence agencies because of its ability to sift through large amounts of data looking for preprogrammed targets." The Narus system, which was maintained by Narus technicans, also provided a real-time mirror image of all data streaming through AT&T routers, an image to be rerouted into the computers of the NSA."

so your point is to point out that we all spy on each other....
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
It is a well known fact that the Israel spys on us. So does our "Special relationship" partner Britian. We also spy on all of them.

yes. my understanding is that for a period of time, the arrangement between the CIA/NSA/FBI (American intel. agencies) and MI6 (British intelligence agencies) was that "we spy on your people, you spy on our people - then we trade".

however, since 2001, the Patriot Act, etc. the laws that made that arrangement with MI6 practical have been lifted - so the US can spy on their own citizens, when need be.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.
 

Darthvoy

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,825
1
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.

You can criticise Israel. Your problem is your criticism is blatanntly biased and unfair.....
plus it`s no secret that you hate jews...
so what was your point??
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.

I've critized Israel actions before...

The problem is when you do it you are being an anti-semite.

What if I called the National Urban League Institute the "great person Lobby"

Would I appear racist?
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.

You can criticise Israel. Your problem is your criticism is blatanntly biased and unfair.....
plus it`s no secret that you hate jews...
so what was your point??

do you make this statement based on ESP, or can you provide the URL for a single thread where DarthVoy expresses anti-Jewish sentiments ?

i was initially surprised amazed at the extent to which Israel influences American politics.
 

cyclohexane

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2005
2,837
19
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.

why not?
 

brownzilla786

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
904
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.

I've critized Israel actions before...

The problem is when you do it you are being an anti-semite.

What if I called the National Urban League Institute the "great person Lobby"

Would I appear racist?

Yes you would. great person is a very demeaning and derogatory word used against black people. If he called it a beloved patriot lobby or something of that sort then your analogy would work.
 

brownzilla786

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
904
0
0
Originally posted by: cyclohexane
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.


why not?

Well, shit then. Practically everyone should be able to spy on us. I mean really, they are looking out for themselves when they spy on us right?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: brownzilla786
Originally posted by: cyclohexane
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.


why not?

Well, shit then. Practically everyone should be able to spy on us. I mean really, they are looking out for themselves when they spy on us right?

They do. It is called military attaches in their embassies.

The Chinese run rampant around Silicon Valley as well. Russia has more spys in the US right now than during the Cold War.

 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
I guess we should start bombing the shit out of em for terrorist activity. We can spy on whoever we want but if they spy on us.... Oh man!!!! Let the nukes fly!

 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
the US bends over backwards to accomodate Israeli spying on the US.

but when the US spies on Israel ...

"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a neutral United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 and wounded more than 170 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

"special relationship" - or especially ODD relationship ?!
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: wwswimming
the US bends over backwards to accomodate Israeli spying on the US.

but when the US spies on Israel ...

"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a neutral United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 and wounded more than 170 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

"special relationship" - or especially ODD relationship ?!

Yes, because 1967 is extremely relevant. I ship out of San Francisco tomorrow, and then on to Thailand, and then on to Saigon. Wish me luck against the NVA!
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: brownzilla786
Originally posted by: cyclohexane
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.


why not?

Well, shit then. Practically everyone should be able to spy on us. I mean really, they are looking out for themselves when they spy on us right?

They do. It is called military attaches in their embassies.

The Chinese run rampant around Silicon Valley as well. Russia has more spys in the US right now than during the Cold War.

There is a difference in having no problem with it, and trying to thwart it as you figure out who is doing the spying/what are they trying to get/ and how to stop it ASAP in each case.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I've always seen it as anti-semitic because it's entirely reasonable that they should be the first to know about a shift in the political winds in regards to the US's protection of Israel. IE, we are their only supporter. And, they certainly shouldn't just trust what we tell them considering the cost to them if we lie. So I'm not surprised, and don't really have a problem with them spying on us. They are just looking to protect their own skin.

You can say that about EVERY espionage effort in the history of the WORLD. What if protecting their skin costs us ours?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: RichardE
I've critized Israel actions before...

For being too soft on the Palestinians...

Actually no, a few times Israel has very well went over the line past self defense. I am still waiting your take on the ICC unless you realized how stupid of an idea that was.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: brownzilla786
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Originally posted by: ayabe
They don't need to spy, they've got AIPAC, which is much, much better.

yup, it is dusgusting that no one can criticize Israel without being labeled an anti-semite. I was also almost banned from here by reffering to AIPAC as the "jew lobby" some time ago.

I've critized Israel actions before...

The problem is when you do it you are being an anti-semite.

What if I called the National Urban League Institute the "great person Lobby"

Would I appear racist?

Yes you would. great person is a very demeaning and derogatory word used against black people. If he called it a beloved patriot lobby or something of that sort then your analogy would work.

great person and Jew can both be used as normal words, or depending on context as racial slurs.