Israel rejects UN call for Gaza war crimes inquiry.

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In a word Freshgeardude, somethings are totally white and black, such as the use of white Phosphorous in populated areas. It becomes impossible to evade the war crimes charges when the use of such munitions in populated areas is a war crime in itself.

Somewhat the presence of all those building and people make it impossible for Israel to allege, gee we did not think we were shelling a populated areas with videos, pictures, chemical analysis, and the whole nine yards exposing the lie.

Get a clue, as much as you want to believe Israeli propaganda, The UN report is far more credible.

But cheer up, The UN reports did not buy Hamas propaganda either.

and in this case its not white and black.

I understand they used white phosporus, but not intentionally to target people. I believe they only used it for light. If you want to find 3 articles from 3 different, well known sites to prove it to me, i will believe you, but until then, nothing was wrong of them to use it.


secondly, the UN is more against israel than the palestinians, even from the start. I dont need to prove my point on this one.

secondly, I like how the article and you suggest that Israel needs to "fix the problem or go to internation courts"

I dont see the UN or any other nation enforcing Hamas to fix their problems.


I'd hate to divert from the main topic here, but Gilad Shalit is still a POW which im my books is still considered an act of war. How come the UN is trying to put any blame on israel when Gilad has been a prisoner that long.

The illegal kidnapping of Gilad Shalit ALONE constitutes a full on war where israel should do whatever it takes to get him back and the mere fact that israel hasnt shows that they arent bestial people like hamas. They should have destroyed the hell out of Gaza when they originally went in looking for him and not stopped until he was handed over, just to prove the strength and severity Israel can do well within their international rights

You need to forgive lemon law. He recently came out of the closet and admitted on these forums that everything is Israel`s fault.
He has always been against Israel and he sleeps with the Un and believes they are all powerful and totally unbiased.....

Every point you make Lemon law will try to refute and the ones he cannnot refute he will divert the subject by using thye dreaded "white phosporus divergence....not understand or able to admit that Israel used it to create light as you stated and not necessarily as a weapon!

Hang tough!!
Lemon Laws clan has not came to his rescue yet!!

 

[Doboji]

This is such old news... the UN condemns Israel every time they take any militarized action. It is absolutely impossible for Israel to take any defensive action against the Palestinians without crossing some "war crime" line the UN has defined in their little houses thousands of miles away from rocket fire. The whole Palestinian war effort is built to allow that to happen and make the most propaganda out of it when it does.

At then end of the day all the UN does is wear little blue hats and pretend to be useful while spending billions of the worlds money.

I hope Obama steps up to the plate here, and stands in support of Israel... it's one of the things about voting for him that made me the most nervous.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Doboji
This is such old news... the UN condemns Israel every time they take any militarized action. It is absolutely impossible for Israel to take any defensive action against the Palestinians without crossing some "war crime" line the UN has defined in their little houses thousands of miles away from rocket fire. The whole Palestinian war effort is built to allow that to happen and make the most propaganda out of it when it does.

At then end of the day all the UN does is wear little blue hats and pretend to be useful while spending billions of the worlds money.

I hope Obama steps up to the plate here, and stands in support of Israel... it's one of the things about voting for him that made me the most nervous.

Great post

minus voting for obama -_- you did know mccain is like 10 times more supportive of Israel than Obama is right?

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude

Originally posted by: Doboji
This is such old news... the UN condemns Israel every time they take any militarized action. It is absolutely impossible for Israel to take any defensive action against the Palestinians without crossing some "war crime" line the UN has defined in their little houses thousands of miles away from rocket fire. The whole Palestinian war effort is built to allow that to happen and make the most propaganda out of it when it does.

At then end of the day all the UN does is wear little blue hats and pretend to be useful while spending billions of the worlds money.

I hope Obama steps up to the plate here, and stands in support of Israel... it's one of the things about voting for him that made me the most nervous.

Great post

minus voting for obama -_- you did know mccain is like 10 times more supportive of Israel than Obama is right?

Yeah I do... and I was going to vote McCain all the way up until he picked that idiot Palin as his running mate.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude

Originally posted by: Doboji
This is such old news... the UN condemns Israel every time they take any militarized action. It is absolutely impossible for Israel to take any defensive action against the Palestinians without crossing some "war crime" line the UN has defined in their little houses thousands of miles away from rocket fire. The whole Palestinian war effort is built to allow that to happen and make the most propaganda out of it when it does.

At then end of the day all the UN does is wear little blue hats and pretend to be useful while spending billions of the worlds money.

I hope Obama steps up to the plate here, and stands in support of Israel... it's one of the things about voting for him that made me the most nervous.

Great post

minus voting for obama -_- you did know mccain is like 10 times more supportive of Israel than Obama is right?

Yeah I do... and I was going to vote McCain all the way up until he picked that idiot Palin as his running mate.

he didnt, republican party did for him, he wanted romney or liberman I believe (dont quote me)

but i understand about palin.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Typical one-sided post from LL.

The UN report actually found the possibility of war crimes by BOTH sides. Does LL mention that? No.

Here's the facts of the matter. Israel is actually responding and investigating these allegations. What does Hamas have to say regarding the UN accusations? They are not responding at all and probably don't give a shit because their enablers in the UN will protect them from any allegations, as has been the case for years.

Many tired long ago of the one-sided viewpoint and vieled anti-semetism of the UN all while protecting the Palestinian militants. And here we have LL perpetuating the same sort of bullshit. Congrats LL. Are you a dues paying member of the Arab League?

 

[Craig234]

We need to be able to say some truth about the Israeli government sometimes doing evil things.

IMO, we need to de-emphasize our selfish interests in having a thug partner there, and use our influence to get them to do better - even while we also pressure their neighbors.

 

[Jaskalas]

Terrorism imposes civilian casualties on both sides. That?s the entire point behind it, and a defense of terrorism based on the civilian casualties it has inflicted is backwards. Such a direction of finger pointing shows loyalties. It shows who is an ally of the terrorists.

Perhaps the United States is incapable of fighting a proper war against Islamic Terrorism because its people do not know whether to side with its own soldiers or with the people killing its soldiers. That there is any sympathy whatsoever is appalling. It strikes me a treacherous and abhorrent. I cannot speak words enough to describe the disdain.

All I can say is that our divide is deep and irreconcilable.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Craig234
We need to be able to say some truth about the Israeli government sometimes doing evil things.

Answer this:

How many UN resolutions censure the Israelis?

How many censure the Palestinians?

Truth is truth for all. So why do so many only expect "truth" for one side of the equation?

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me chicken man for your total lies and lack of reading comprehension in saying, "The UN report actually found the possibility of war crimes by BOTH sides. Does LL mention that? No."

A short review of my posts on this very thread leaves more than ample evidence that I noted that UN investigations found that both Israel and Hamas are both guilty of international war crimes.

In short chicken man, you are untitled to your own opinions, but you are not untitled to your lies about facts. Please review this thread and issue the the required apology. Because the fact is and remains that LL noted that the UN condemned both sides on this very thread.

Learn to read chicken man before you shoot off your mouth. But if it will make you happier I could go back on this very thread and list chapter and verse how many times I noted the UN Condemnation on the Hamas side also. Just once would be enough to prove you a liar, let alone all the other similar citations.

What is an epic fail on this thread is that either Israel or Hamas are the good guys worth supporting.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me chicken man for your total lies and lack of reading comprehension in saying, "The UN report actually found the possibility of war crimes by BOTH sides. Does LL mention that? No."

A short review of my posts on this very thread leaves more than ample evidence that I noted that UN investigations found that both Israel and Hamas are both guilty of international war crimes.

In short chicken man, you are untitled to your own opinions, but you are not untitled to your lies about facts. Please review this thread and issue the the required apology.

My mistake, LL. Your thread title "Israel rejects UN call for Gaza war crimes inquiry" would lead one to believe you were only concerned about Israel's complicity in this. But you did happen to mention briefly that Palestinians were cited as well, though you didn't dote on it.

Well done. Clearly you are fairly balanced.

:roll:

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me chicken man for your total lies and lack of reading comprehension in saying, "The UN report actually found the possibility of war crimes by BOTH sides. Does LL mention that? No."

A short review of my posts on this very thread leaves more than ample evidence that I noted that UN investigations found that both Israel and Hamas are both guilty of international war crimes.

In short chicken man, you are untitled to your own opinions, but you are not untitled to your lies about facts. Please review this thread and issue the the required apology.

My mistake, LL. Your thread title "Israel rejects UN call for Gaza war crimes inquiry" would lead one to believe you were only concerned about Israel's complicity in this. But you did happen to mention briefly that Palestinians were cited as well, though you didn't dote on it.

Well done. Clearly you are fairly balanced.

:roll:

I agree...well done lemon law you obviously are fair and balancedafter all you did allude to the palestiniand briefly....:disgust:

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are.

The guy who oversaw the UN report is Jewish, but I'm guessing you have no interest in letting reality get in the way of your arguments.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are.

The guy who oversaw the UN report is Jewish, but I'm guessing you have no interest in letting reality get in the way of your arguments.

well wasnt there a post here a while ago saying anti-semetic != anti- israel?


the above is true. i hope I dont have to explain it

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are.

The guy who oversaw the UN report is Jewish, but I'm guessing you have no interest in letting reality get in the way of your arguments.

Yes-- Richard Goldstone is a Jew. But NOT an Israeli Jew. He is a South African of Jewish descent . There is a difference believe it or not.

 

[Moonbeam]

The greatest critics of Jews are Jews.

 

[Red Irish]

Let's assume that rockets were fired from the positions bombarded by Israel.

Was Israel's response justified?

No.

Did the British government bombard staunch republican or loyalist areas of Northern Ireland during the "troubles", despite the fact that it knew terrorists were active in these areas? Has the Spanish government ever bombarded areas of the Basque country where terrorists are known to reside? For that matter, has the US government ever bombarded ghetto areas in New York or Los Angeles where many criminals, who are a danger to public safety, are to be found? Clearly these governments could achieve a similar percentage of "legitimate kills" and civilian deaths if they took such action, yet they refrain from doing so: there would be a public outcry, there would be prosecutions and there would be a rapid change of government in each case.

Nevertheless, many people are still willing to attempt to justify the carnage inflicted by Israel in its last "military" operation in the Gaza strip, actions that, according to the most conservative estimates, resulted in the deaths of hundreds of civilians. Is it simply because the media has taught us over the last thirty years that Palestinians are fair game and can and should be treated differently than everyone else? The only anti-Semitism I see is directed towards the Palestinians.

Many posters point to the fact that the people in Gaza voted for Hamas as if this somehow excuses Israel's acts; however, although we may strongly disagree with a certain perspective, people should never be killed for their beliefs. Israel continues to vote in right-wing governments that clearly will do little to remedy the situation.

Am I arguing that Israel is entirely to blame? Absolutely not, Hamas has proved willing to sacrifice its citizens for "the cause" and the mosques preach hatred rather than reconciliation. Nevertheless, the same thing could be said of many synagogues.

Am I arguing that Israel should sit back and do nothing as Hamas launches rockets into "its territory" (nobody seems to have a clear idea where Israel ends these days)? No, I am not. What I am suggesting is that for too long we have viewed Israel as a friend in unfriendly territory, when in reality, its actions are deserving of the same censure and abhorrence with which we view the rocket attacks or suicide bombings perpetrated against Israel. What has Israel done in the last thirty years to promote peace? The last I heard they were planning to build 500 more houses on land that, according to international law, does not belong to Israel, despite criticisms from just about every other country on the planet.

Many posters are willing to adopt the most inane arguments as they blindly attempt to defend Israel: I have witnessed attacks on the BBC, attacks on the UN and attacks on the President of the United States based on alleged anti-Semitism. What authority or source are these people willing to accept? Presumably only God can act as Israel's judge, whereby we reach the same levels of fanaticism evident in "the enemy".

The point is, criticising Israel does not equate to support for terrorism or anti-Semitism. Moreover, by pressurising Israel to refrain from building on land it does not own, to afford Palestinians the same rights as its Jewish citizens and to stop bombarding civilian areas, we will make progress towards a better, safer and fairer world wherein terrorist groups will have a few less arguments at their disposal when attempting to enlist new recruits. After all, when you are living in abject poverty with no prospect of improvement, what have you got to lose? Perhaps this is the most important front in the "War on Terrorism".

Jews and Palestinians need to sit down at the table and start talking, safe in the knowledge that the heinous acts commited on either side of the divide prevent each of them from adopting a position of moral superiority.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Terrorism imposes civilian casualties on both sides. That?s the entire point behind it, and a defense of terrorism based on the civilian casualties it has inflicted is backwards. Such a direction of finger pointing shows loyalties. It shows who is an ally of the terrorists.

Exactly, excellent post. :thumbsup:

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Let's assume that rockets were fired from the positions bombarded by Israel.

Was Israel's response justified?

No.

Did the British government bombard staunch republican or loyalist areas of Northern Ireland during the "troubles", despite the fact that it knew terrorists were active in these areas? Has the Spanish government ever bombarded areas of the Basque country where terrorists are known to reside? For that matter, has the US government ever bombarded ghetto areas in New York or Los Angeles where many criminals, who are a danger to public safety, are to be found? Clearly these governments could achieve a similar percentage of "legitimate kills" and civilian deaths if they took such action, yet they refrain from doing so: there would be a public outcry, there would be prosecutions and there would be a rapid change of government in each case.

Nevertheless, many people are still willing to attempt to justify the carnage inflicted by Israel in its last "military" operation in the Gaza strip, actions that, according to the most conservative estimates, resulted in the deaths of hundreds of civilians. Is it simply because the media has taught us over the last thirty years that Palestinians are fair game and can and should be treated differently than everyone else? The only anti-Semitism I see is directed towards the Palestinians.

Many posters point to the fact that the people in Gaza voted for Hamas as if this somehow excuses Israel's acts; however, although we may strongly disagree with a certain perspective, people should never be killed for their beliefs. Israel continues to vote in right-wing governments that clearly will do little to remedy the situation.

Am I arguing that Israel is entirely to blame? Absolutely not, Hamas has proved willing to sacrifice its citizens for "the cause" and the mosques preach hatred rather than reconciliation. Nevertheless, the same thing could be said of many synagogues.

Am I arguing that Israel should sit back and do nothing as Hamas launches rockets into "its territory" (nobody seems to have a clear idea where Israel ends these days)? No, I am not. What I am suggesting is that for too long we have viewed Israel as a friend in unfriendly territory, when in reality, its actions are deserving of the same censure and abhorrence with which we view the rocket attacks or suicide bombings perpetrated against Israel. What has Israel done in the last thirty years to promote peace? The last I heard they were planning to build 500 more houses on land that, according to international law, does not belong to Israel, despite criticisms from just about every other country on the planet.

Many posters are willing to adopt the most inane arguments as they blindly attempt to defend Israel: I have witnessed attacks on the BBC, attacks on the UN and attacks on the President of the United States based on alleged anti-Semitism. What authority or source are these people willing to accept? Presumably only God can act as Israel's judge, whereby we reach the same levels of fanaticism evident in "the enemy".

The point is, criticising Israel does not equate to support for terrorism or anti-Semitism. Moreover, by pressurising Israel to refrain from building on land it does not own, to afford Palestinians the same rights as its Jewish citizens and to stop bombarding civilian areas, we will make progress towards a better, safer and fairer world wherein terrorists groups will have a few less arguments at their disposal when attempting to enlist new recruits. After all, when you are living in abject poverty with no prospect of improvement, what have you got to lose? Perhaps this is the most important front in the "War on Terrorism".

Jews and Palestinians need to sit down at the table and start talking, safe in the knowledge that the heinous acts commited on either side of the divide prevent each of them from adopting a position of moral superiority.

I think the problem with your post is that you have this misconception that the Palestinians are interested in peace or land.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion


I think the problem with your post is that you have this misconception that the Palestinians are interested in peace or land.

Your misconception is that they aren't.

 

[Doboji]

Red Irish,

Excellent post... well written, well thought out.

However, as much as we'd like to compare the Irish/British conflict to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the two conflicts are completely different. The circumstances were different the terrorism was different.

As for the "carnage" or Israel's last military incursions in Gaza, the problem with War... is it generally involves killing people with exceptionally dangerous weaponry... especially by the stronger side... which Israel is. So is what happened in Gaza a good thing? Is it something to condone and be proud of? No absolutely not... however if it were your friends, family, and countrymen the actions were meant to protect, you would absolutely consider it necessary evil. The calls of anti-semitism you often hear are originated by the general sense of imbalance that exists when evaluating the conflict as a whole. Palestinians are viewed as poor victims of the Israeli-Nazi war machine... first off even using the "Nazi" terminology is a direct attack on Jews and the Holocaust and IS antisemitism.... secondly the Palestinians are certainly not MORE innocent than the Israelis. Supporters of Israel always have to ask the question... why is Israel above all other conflicts in the world singled out? When there are so many other WAY more bloody inhumane conflicts in the world... why is Israel always pointed to first as the evil tyrant? The answer many people immediately think of is antisemitism.... I think the real answer is the religious significance of the land are in conflict. But it's easy to understand where the accusations come from.

As for the settlements, I agree with you in principal... the Settlements are a terrible idea. But probably not for the same reasons you do. Building settlements into an area of land where your national enemy is the majority is demographically idiotic. It's like begging to be overrun by political population. I don't particularly care about the "infringement" on Palestinian land issue, since there still is no Palestine.

I don't believe negotiations will ever resolve the conflict... something needs to be declared. Palestinians need to declare themselves a country, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese and Egyptians need to declare the Palestinians who have been living in camps in their countries citzens and actually seek to naturalize them. Iran and Syria and the Palestinians need to accept that Israel is a middle eastern country and normalize trade relations. The US and THEM attitude of Arabs in the middle east needs to end...

 

[CitizenKain]

Israel could be caught on camera intentionally bombing civilians, joking about it, and then doing a puppet show with the bodies of children, and people like QuantumPion and rest of the Internet IDF would line up to defend them.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Doboji
Red Irish,

Excellent post... well written, well thought out.

However, as much as we'd like to compare the Irish/British conflict to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the two conflicts are completely different. The circumstances were different the terrorism was different.

As for the "carnage" or Israel's last military incursions in Gaza, the problem with War... is it generally involves killing people with exceptionally dangerous weaponry... especially by the stronger side... which Israel is. So is what happened in Gaza a good thing? Is it something to condone and be proud of? No absolutely not... however if it were your friends, family, and countrymen the actions were meant to protect, you would absolutely consider it necessary evil. The calls of anti-semitism you often hear are originated by the general sense of imbalance that exists when evaluating the conflict as a whole. Palestinians are viewed as poor victims of the Israeli-Nazi war machine... first off even using the "Nazi" terminology is a direct attack on Jews and the Holocaust and IS antisemitism.... secondly the Palestinians are certainly not MORE innocent than the Israelis. Supporters of Israel always have to ask the question... why is Israel above all other conflicts in the world singled out? When there are so many other WAY more bloody inhumane conflicts in the world... why is Israel always pointed to first as the evil tyrant? The answer many people immediately think of is antisemitism.... I think the real answer is the religious significance of the land are in conflict. But it's easy to understand where the accusations come from.

As for the settlements, I agree with you in principal... the Settlements are a terrible idea. But probably not for the same reasons you do. Building settlements into an area of land where your national enemy is the majority is demographically idiotic. It's like begging to be overrun by political population. I don't particularly care about the "infringement" on Palestinian land issue, since there still is no Palestine.

I don't believe negotiations will ever resolve the conflict... something needs to be declared. Palestinians need to declare themselves a country, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese and Egyptians need to declare the Palestinians who have been living in camps in their countries citzens and actually seek to naturalize them. Iran and Syria and the Palestinians need to accept that Israel is a middle eastern country and normalize trade relations. The US and THEM attitude of Arabs in the middle east needs to end...

Like the two peoples we are discussing I suppose we must learn to agree to disagree on a number of points. I will never view Israel's actions as a "necessary evil" - those launching the rockets or strapping explosives to their bodies could argue exactly the same thing.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
Israel could be caught on camera intentionally bombing civilians, joking about it, and then doing a puppet show with the bodies of children, and people like QuantumPion and rest of the Internet IDF would line up to defend them.

Israel was caught red-handed, hence the UN report. Of course, rather than accept the truth, many people will seek to discredit the source and thereby the validity of the report or justify the acts in question.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: QuantumPion


I think the problem with your post is that you have this misconception that the Palestinians are interested in peace or land.

Your misconception is that they aren't.

They are not! That is a fact! They have had numerous opportunities in the past to pursue peace and iether have not or have rejected peace!

Then they go ahead and elect Hamas......hmmm

As long as their is war there will be civilian casualties......

So whats the big issue again?