Israel rejects UN call for Gaza war crimes inquiry.

[Lemon law]

Not all that much to say, the UN has released its report after finding credible evidence
that Israeli army personnel committed war crimes in its recent Gaza incursion.

Nor do the Palestinians help themselves by rejecting another similar UN report that
they too were guilty of war crimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09...l?_r=1&ref=global-home

But its my understanding that either Israel will take the report seriously and do the appropriate
corrections within six months, or the whole matter will be turned over to the international courts
for possible prosecution.

And at the same time, Obama will be somewhat on the horns of a dilemma, he can either throw all of his new found friendship with Muslims into the garbage can by shielding Israel with a US veto in the security council, the US policy of the past 40 or so years, or he can fail to veto, let the larger UN decide, and win the wrath of the pro Israeli lobby in the US.

Or maybe a middle course will be found that just kicks the can of Palestinian Statehood further down the road as Israel busily continues settling on the West Bank making any Palestinian State an impossibility. And thereby adding fuel to the Hamas and Hezbollah solution of a democratic Israel in which Jews will end up being the smaller voting block.

 

[QuantumPion]

Please. The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are.

At its Second Special Session in August 2006, the Council announced the establishment of a High-Level Commission of Inquiry charged with probing allegations that Israel systematically targeted and killed Lebanese civilians during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.[34] The resolution was passed by a vote of 27 in favour to 11 against, with 8 abstentions. Before and after the vote several member states and NGOs objected that by targeting the resolution solely at Israel and failing to address Hezbollah attacks on Israeli civilians, the Council risked damaging its credibility. The members of the Commission of Inquiry, as announced on 1 September 2006, are Clemente Baena Soares of Brazil, Mohamed Chande Othman of Tanzania, and Stelios Perrakis of Greece. The Commission noted that its report on the conflict would be incomplete without fully investigating both sides, but that "the Commission is not entitled, even if it had wished, to construe [its charter] as equally authorizing the investigation of the actions by Hezbollah in Israel,"[35] as the Council had explicitly prohibited it from investigating the actions of Hezbollah.

The Council released a statement calling on Israel to stop its military operations in the Gaza Strip and to open the Strip's borders to allow the entry of food, fuel and medicine. The Council adopted the resolution by a vote of 30 to 1. 15 states abstained.

"Unfortunately, neither this resolution nor the current session addressed the role of both parties. It was regretful that the current draft resolution did not condemn the rocket attacks on Israeli civilians," said Canada's representative Terry Cormier, the lone voter against.[46]

The United States and Israel boycotted the session. US ambassador Warren Tichenor said the Council's unbalanced approach had "squandered its credibility" by failing to address continued rocket attacks against Israel. "Today's actions do nothing to help the Palestinian people, in whose name the supporters of this session claim to act," he said in a statement. "Supporters of a Palestinian state must avoid the kind of inflammatory rhetoric and actions that this session represents, which only stoke tensions and erode the chances for peace," he added.[47] "We believe that this council should deplore the fact that innocent civilians on both sides are suffering," Slovenian Ambassador Andrej Logar said on behalf of the seven EU states on the council.

At a press conference in Geneva on Wednesday, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon responded when asked about its special session on Gaza, that "I appreciate that the council is looking in depth into this particular situation. And it is rightly doing so. I would also appreciate it if the council will be looking with the same level of attention and urgency at all other matters around the world. There are still many areas where human rights are abused and not properly protected," he said.[48]

On 29 November 2006, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan criticised the Human Rights Council for "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel" while neglecting other parts of the world such as Darfur, which had what he termed "graver" crises.[36][37]

Annan reiterated this position in his formal address on 8 December 2006 (International Human Rights Day). Annan argued that the Commission should not have a "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel. Not that Israel should be given a free pass. Absolutely not. But the Council should give the same attention to grave violations committed by other states as well."[38]

On 20 June 2007, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement that read: "The Secretary-General is disappointed at the council's decision to single out only one specific regional item given the range and scope of allegations of human rights violations throughout the world."[39] The European Union, Canada and the United States were also critical of the Council's focus on Israeli violations.

A Council meeting in Geneva in 2007 caused controversy after Cuba and Belarus, both accused of abuses, were removed from a list of nine special mandates. The list, which included North Korea, Cambodia and Sudan, had been carried forward from the defunct Commission.[40]

As of January 24, 2008, Israel had been condemned 15 times in less than two years. The UN Human Rights Council, like its predecessor the UN Human Rights Commission, has been criticized by some Western countries for its fixation on Israel while ignoring the actions of neighboring states. This has lead to accusations of the organization being anti-Israeli.[27] By April 2007, the Council had passed nine resolutions condemning Israel, the only country which it had specifically condemned.[28][29] Toward Sudan, another country with human rights abuses as documented by the Council's working groups, it has expressed "deep concern."[28]

 

[Lemon law]

The QuantumPion might be distilled to his single opening sentence of, "Please. The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are."

Need I remind you that the Palestinians are a semetic people also and I see no evidence that Israel is not being held to the same standards of conduct as everyone else. But if any criticism of Israeli behavior can be lightly dismissed as mere anti sematism, then there are no bounds of conduct that can ever apply as Israel is given a license to do anything.

As for the charge that the UN is ignoring war crimes on the Palestinian side, that is blatantly false as a similar UN report was also issued.
And the Palestinian side similarly rejected it.

And the thread question asked, what will happen if the UN does act if Israel fails to? In that case, Israel, as the judged, forfeits its chance to be anything other than be judged by the larger world community of the UN. An apartheid South Africa tried a similar stunt, and ended up losing when an economic embargo followed their denials.

 

[Moonbeam]

The thing that bothers me about all of this is that Israel sits on holy Christian land and needs to become a Christian state. Christians need a homeland.

 

[lupi]

The UN should be disbanded and I just checked, still no "palenstine" place on the map.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The QuantumPion might be distilled to his single opening sentence of, "Please. The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are."

Need I remind you that the Palestinians are a semetic people also and I see no evidence that Israel is not being held to the same standards of conduct as everyone else. But if any criticism of Israeli behavior can be lightly dismissed as mere anti sematism, then there are no bounds of conduct that can ever apply as Israel is given a license to do anything.

Your argument is on the intellectual level of a 5-year-old. You post 5 threads a day citing how evil Israel is supposed to be, using sources such as Hamas and Hezbollah for your references. And when people call you on it, you dismiss any criticism against you without addressing the arguments or facts and play the "anti-anti-semitism" card.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The thing that bothers me about all of this is that Israel sits on holy Christian land and needs to become a Christian state. Christians need a homeland.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, Moonbeam has it ass backwards, and while Christianity was born in Israel, they never got over the fact that Jesus was executed by the Romans. And in an act of supreme revenge that took centuries, the Christians took over Rome. and thus have a homeland in today's Vatican.

But Christians have today rejected the notion of a pope and now have fragmented into countless sects, most initially formed because their then leaders decided that the pope was a dope. And then went on to go almost everywhere in an attempt to conquer the world as they spread the gospel. And willing to assimilate all who will join them.

Meanwhile back in that same Roman prehistory, the Romans decided the Jews were ungovernable,
and kicked the entire lot out of Israel, as the Romans said do not go away mad, just go away. And everywhere the jews went, they met rejection and anti-sematism because they refused to assimilate into the larger culture. And here we are nearly 1800 years later, and the Jews have come back home to Israel as they still refuse to assimilate or associate with any but themselves. And Jews, unlike Christians and Muslims, are unwilling to assimilate any not born into their religion.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The thing that bothers me about all of this is that Israel sits on holy Christian land and needs to become a Christian state. Christians need a homeland.

I was thinking the same thing. Well, sort of. How about we partition Iraq. A bit for the Kurds, A bit for the Sunni and a bit for the Palestinian.

Moses gave Israel to the Jew not the Christian. He gave the Christian America. I wonder if he knew there were Indians there? Move the Atheist to Greenland somewhere.

 

[ayabe]

So Israel has every right to purposefully target hospitals and food banks?

What the fuck planet are you people from?

 

[DesiPower]

Originally posted by: ayabe
So Israel has every right to purposefully target hospitals and food banks?

What the fuck planet are you people from?

If there are rockets coming out from them, i guess yes...

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: ayabe
So Israel has every right to purposefully target hospitals and food banks?

What the fuck planet are you people from?

they never attacked hospitals, I would like to see some proof of this.

they did attack mosques, schools, apartment building, and any other place including the UN building because hamas fired missiles and mortar shells from those locations. they have every right to fire upon those who fire on them. it just seems you are yet another to fall to the Palestinian propaganda where they attack from these places and then extort the fact that israel fired on these places.

you do know that Hamas's headquarters is believed to be under the main hospital in gaza right? there is a reason for that and not because they need to be treated for illnesses

 

[Lemon law]

It may be all well and fine for QuantunPion to assert, " Your argument is on the intellectual level of a 5-year-old. You post 5 threads a day citing how evil Israel is supposed to be, using sources such as Hamas and Hezbollah for your references. And when people call you on it, you dismiss any criticism against you without addressing the arguments or facts and play the "anti-anti-semitism" card."

But your arguments are on an even lower level than that, as you blithely assume that present Israeli success will keep holding. Because the State of Israel has done nothing to reduce the tensions in its entire 61 year history, and while I certainly do not wish to see the Israelis pushed into the sea, that is going to be the inevitable result in the longer sweep of history. Do the math, 4 million Jews in Israel thumbing I their noses at 275 million Arabs, in the end, the superior weight of numbers always tells. I could also remind you that Christian crusades had possession of Israel twice and each time for far longer time than a mere 61 years, but neither event lasted all that long in the larger sweep of history. The British also had their period of dominion over a land that is holy to three religions.

Maybe its time the world learned its lesson, the often squabbled over holy land will never know peace until its shared.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
It may be all well and fine for QuantunPion to assert, " Your argument is on the intellectual level of a 5-year-old. You post 5 threads a day citing how evil Israel is supposed to be, using sources such as Hamas and Hezbollah for your references. And when people call you on it, you dismiss any criticism against you without addressing the arguments or facts and play the "anti-anti-semitism" card."

But your arguments are on an even lower level than that, as you blithely assume that present Israeli success will keep holding. Because the State of Israel has done nothing to reduce the tensions in its entire 61 year history, and while I certainly do not wish to see the Israelis pushed into the sea, that is going to be the inevitable result in the longer sweep of history. Do the math, 4 million Jews in Israel thumbing I their noses at 275 million Arabs, in the end, the superior weight of numbers always tells. I could also remind you that Christian crusades had possession of Israel twice and each time for far longer time than a mere 61 years, but neither event lasted all that long in the larger sweep of history. The British also had their period of dominion over a land that is holy to three religions.

Maybe its time the world learned its lesson, the often squabbled over holy land will never know peace until its shared.

the Muslims there have not tried to reduce tensions for over 100 years.

 

[Lemon law]

As freshgeardude in saying, "they never attacked hospitals, I would like to see some proof of this.

they did attack mosques, schools, apartment building, and any other place including the UN building because hamas fired missiles and mortar shells from those locations. they have every right to fire upon those who fire on them. it just seems you are yet another to fall to the Palestinian propaganda where they attack from these places and then extort the fact that israel fired on these places.

you do know that Hamas's headquarters is believed to be under the main hospital in gaza right? there is a reason for that and not because they need to be treated for illnesses" , BASICALLY BUYS ISRAELI PROPAGANDA hook line and sinker.

These are precisely the allegations that the UN report was charged with investigating, and the UN reports, to their credit, did not buy either Israeli or Hamas propaganda.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As freshgeardude in saying, "they never attacked hospitals, I would like to see some proof of this.

they did attack mosques, schools, apartment building, and any other place including the UN building because hamas fired missiles and mortar shells from those locations. they have every right to fire upon those who fire on them. it just seems you are yet another to fall to the Palestinian propaganda where they attack from these places and then extort the fact that israel fired on these places.

you do know that Hamas's headquarters is believed to be under the main hospital in gaza right? there is a reason for that and not because they need to be treated for illnesses" , BASICALLY BUYS ISRAELI PROPAGANDA hook line and sinker.

These are precisely the allegations that the UN report was charged with investigating, and the UN reports, to their credit, did not buy either Israeli or Hamas propaganda.

so i guess in today's day and age, videos and pictures and probably radar are not enough proof to prove that hamas did exactly what I said

oh wait, that is just you. you banish anything that proves hamas is a bunch of pigs and anything that proves israel is right.

you say you post unbiased articles and such but you selectively choose any article that says hamas is not bad

 

[Lemon law]

In a word Freshgeardude, somethings are totally white and black, such as the use of white Phosphorous in populated areas. It becomes impossible to evade the war crimes charges when the use of such munitions in populated areas is a war crime in itself.

Somewhat the presence of all those building and people make it impossible for Israel to allege, gee we did not think we were shelling a populated areas with videos, pictures, chemical analysis, and the whole nine yards exposing the lie.

Get a clue, as much as you want to believe Israeli propaganda, The UN report is far more credible.

But cheer up, The UN reports did not buy Hamas propaganda either.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In a word Freshgeardude, somethings are totally white and black, such as the use of white Phosphorous in populated areas. It becomes impossible to evade the war crimes charges when the use of such munitions in populated areas is a war crime in itself.

Somewhat the presence of all those building and people make it impossible for Israel to allege, gee we did not think we were shelling a populated areas with videos, pictures, chemical analysis, and the whole nine yards exposing the lie.

Get a clue, as much as you want to believe Israeli propaganda, The UN report is far more credible.

But cheer up, The UN reports did not buy Hamas propaganda either.

and in this case its not white and black.

I understand they used white phosporus, but not intentionally to target people. I believe they only used it for light. If you want to find 3 articles from 3 different, well known sites to prove it to me, i will believe you, but until then, nothing was wrong of them to use it.


secondly, the UN is more against israel than the palestinians, even from the start. I dont need to prove my point on this one.

secondly, I like how the article and you suggest that Israel needs to "fix the problem or go to internation courts"

I dont see the UN or any other nation enforcing Hamas to fix their problems.


I'd hate to divert from the main topic here, but Gilad Shalit is still a POW which im my books is still considered an act of war. How come the UN is trying to put any blame on israel when Gilad has been a prisoner that long.

The illegal kidnapping of Gilad Shalit ALONE constitutes a full on war where israel should do whatever it takes to get him back and the mere fact that israel hasnt shows that they arent bestial people like hamas. They should have destroyed the hell out of Gaza when they originally went in looking for him and not stopped until he was handed over, just to prove the strength and severity Israel can do well within their international rights

 

[BarrySotero]

Hah - terrorists use ambulances from UN Bozos. UN is a swamp that really needs to be drained. So of course MaoBama seeks closer ties to them.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude

The illegal kidnapping of Gilad Shalit ALONE constitutes a full on war where israel should do whatever it takes to get him back and the mere fact that israel hasnt shows that they arent bestial people like hamas. They should have destroyed the hell out of Gaza when they originally went in looking for him and not stopped until he was handed over, just to prove the strength and severity Israel can do well within their international rights

yeah only America is allowed to lock people up with no trial.

How do you think the international community would see 80% civilian casualties? And does that even matter?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Hah - terrorists use ambulances from UN Bozos. UN is a swamp that really needs to be drained. So of course MaoBama seeks closer ties to them.

you live in hell

 

[Lemon law]

Gee Wilikers, now it comes down to "The illegal kidnapping of Gilad Shalit ALONE constitutes a full on war where israel should do whatever it takes to get him back and the mere fact that israel hasnt shows that they arent bestial people like hamas. They should have destroyed the hell out of Gaza when they originally went in looking for him and not stopped until he was handed over, just to prove the strength and severity Israel can do well within their international rights."

And just over one person, Israel is fully justified in slaughtering thousand of innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who had nothing to do with the kidnap of Galid Shalit?? We are now not just talking that biblical eye for an eye vengeance, we are now talking that other war crime of collective punishment. Yes freshgeardude, open mouth insert foot, YOU ADVOCATE ISRAELI WAR CRIMES, thanks for playing the justify injustice game, but get em clue, two or an infinitely larger number of wrongs never make one right, and if anything we have too much injustice on all sides, as it is.

Then answer that other question, is it working yet for Israel, as the harder Israel tries , the greater the hatreds and terrorism grows?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Gee Wilikers, now it comes down to "The illegal kidnapping of Gilad Shalit ALONE constitutes a full on war where israel should do whatever it takes to get him back and the mere fact that israel hasnt shows that they arent bestial people like hamas. They should have destroyed the hell out of Gaza when they originally went in looking for him and not stopped until he was handed over, just to prove the strength and severity Israel can do well within their international rights."

And just over one person, Israel is fully justified in slaughtering thousand of innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who had nothing to do with the kidnap of Galid Shalit?? We are now not just talking that biblical eye for an eye vengeance, we are now talking that other war crime of collective punishment. Yes freshgeardude, open mouth insert foot, YOU ADVOCATE ISRAELI WAR CRIMES, thanks for playing the justify injustice game, but get em clue, two or an infinitely larger number of wrongs never make one right, and if anything we have too much injustice on all sides, as it is.

Then answer that other question, is it working yet for Israel, as the harder Israel tries , the greater the hatreds and terrorism grows?

i never said anything about civilians here. its not Israel's fault hamas uses their own people to hide around. it is also not israel's fault that the gazan people voted hamas into power. it is not israel's fault that they allow them and do not find back against them. its a shame that the innocent die in times of battles, but i'd hardly call 80% or even maybe 1000 people that were killed innocent civilians. "There are two types of evil on earth, those who do wrong and those who see wrong happen and do nothing about it."

 

[Lemon law]

The freshgeardude position still boils down to, "There are two types of evil on earth, those who do wrong and those who see wrong happen and do nothing about it."

And therein lies the rub, while you assume anything Israel does =right, far larger numbers of people assume the appositive position. And while neither side, if we can over simplify it to only two sides are correct, we have to realize two things. (1) Neither one sided view is correct or will win in the end. (2) And that the road to a final peace must satisfy both sides.

All else is mere illusion and only temporary.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The freshgeardude position still boils down to, "There are two types of evil on earth, those who do wrong and those who see wrong happen and do nothing about it."

And therein lies the rub, while you assume anything Israel does =right, far larger numbers of people assume the appositive position. And while neither side, if we can over simplify it to only two sides are correct, we have to realize two things. (1) Neither one sided view is correct or will win in the end. (2) And that the road to a final peace must satisfy both sides.

All else is mere illusion and only temporary.

that is not my complete position here. read the actual important stuff and talk about that instead of talking about 1 sentence out of the entire paragraph.


I still do not see you saying anything about the so called "innocent" civilians. you just keep on avoiding the topic

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The QuantumPion might be distilled to his single opening sentence of, "Please. The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are."

Need I remind you that the Palestinians are a semetic people also and I see no evidence that Israel is not being held to the same standards of conduct as everyone else. But if any criticism of Israeli behavior can be lightly dismissed as mere anti sematism, then there are no bounds of conduct that can ever apply as Israel is given a license to do anything.

As for the charge that the UN is ignoring war crimes on the Palestinian side, that is blatantly false as a similar UN report was also issued.
And the Palestinian side similarly rejected it.

And the thread question asked, what will happen if the UN does act if Israel fails to? In that case, Israel, as the judged, forfeits its chance to be anything other than be judged by the larger world community of the UN. An apartheid South Africa tried a similar stunt, and ended up losing when an economic embargo followed their denials.

QuantumPion was correct in his statement --
Please. The UN is almost as blatantly anti-semetic as you are.
What I find interesting but not suprising knowing your out of the closet hatred of Israel is that you didn`t start a thread about the war crmes on the -palestinian side....

Also YES the UN is anti-semetic. Most peoples from thyat region or semetic.
1.Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2.Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

Also the UN peacekeepers don`t have the best record at being totally unbiased towards both parties!

Actually Obama does not need to shield israel because the UN is a toothless platypus!
Nothing will come of this!!