Israel practicing Eugenics?

[randomrogue]

It's a lot harder to give someone an IUD and claim it is anything other than what it is. A shot? Could be anything.

These women (35 of them) are saying two separate things. They're saying they didn't know what it was and it was called just an inoculation and then they're saying that they knew what it was but were forced to take it.

 

[nehalem256]

It's a lot harder to give someone an IUD and claim it is anything other than what it is. A shot? Could be anything.

see post 87

The women say that while waiting in transit camps in Ethiopia prior to immigration they were placed in family planning workshops where they were coaxed into agreeing to the injection

 

[klinc]

I find it interesting that you mention this considering how fast the ultra orthodox Jews in Israel also breed. Also, since they study all the time, they are also below the poverty line and are heavily dependent on government welfare. But I'm sure you forgot to mention that group and overlooked the fact that they are not given these birth control pills. If they were offered these pills, it would rip Israel apart. But since they are of European descent I guess it's ok

As for the exodus from Ethiopia to Israel, Operation Moses was done for the same reason Israel will take any Jew, whether real or imagined, from Europe. It is mainly to bulk up the state and "save" Jews from hostile governments. Finally, these groups were literally cut off from the rest of the Jewish disapora when they left Israel a loooooooooooooong time ago. They first settled in Elephantine. Facing a hostile Egyptian Empire in the north, they went east and settled in Ethiopia. Seeing as they were the minority, they adapted most of the customs of the natives.

Now where did you hear that? Should I ask out of which newspaper did you get that? Can you provide any proof like actual witness statements or can you only give us hearsay. Aftr all you are the one making allegations. Proof it

 

[Charles Kozierok]

These women (35 of them) are saying two separate things. They're saying they didn't know what it was and it was called just an inoculation and then they're saying that they knew what it was but were forced to take it.

I know. I'm saying we need to get to the bottom of this.

But IMO even what the government has admitted to so far is unconscionable.

 

[zanejohnson]

lol that's like the least horrible thing israel does.

 

[Dari]

Now where did you hear that? Should I ask out of which newspaper did you get that? Can you provide any proof like actual witness statements or can you only give us hearsay. Aftr all you are the one making allegations. Proof it

Which part?

 

[momeNt]

I see libertarianism as a staunchly logical perspective on life, devoid of humanity and sound (realistic) reasoning, if not practical and realistic reasoning. They are the Vulcans of the universe, they just don't understand that their ideas only work on a planet devoid of petty emotions and morality, and that in the end, no one really likes them.

Other than that, I am a libertarian in spirit, because it is difficult to deny the logical soundness of the common libertarian argument. However, we do not live in fantasy land, where libertarianism can only ever exist. This is why I consider it a theory that is DOA. And at the very least, Communism survived for some embarrassing long period of time.


And actually, libertarians allow for abortion across the board, no exceptions. no real libertarian would think otherwise. (one of their better qualities) Or did I misread you?


And I'm not sure what you mean by "eugenics = big tits, hour glass shape?" Are you hilariously (read: pathetically) confusing this term with sexual selection? Please....tell me that is not so.

As to the last, I couldn't think of any way you could relate libertarianism to eugenics outside of personal sexual selection, there would be no state to control the selection to make it actual eugenics. You equivocating them thoroughly confused me at the time. It seems you liken them because they are equally heartless, so is mass genocide and that's rarely compared to libertarianism.

Democratic appointed morals with forced cooperation isn't exactly moral in itself. Sacrificing the means to meet the desired ends lacks more morality than I think anybody could argue against libertarians.

As to abortion, there are some libertarians that are against abortion but they get tied up in knots trying to argue against abortion whilst preserving liberty. There are some procedures that seem inhumane though, I don't know what is the predominant, but some eviscerate the unborn and suck out the parts, and others just suck out in its entirety or force early labor. Evacuating the unborn is consistent with preserving the mother's liberty and right to her body without directly harming the unborn baby. If it can't live outside the womb that's not the mother's fault.

 

[Nebor]

Great, when can we start doing that here? "Here's your welfare check\foodstamps and your depo shot."

 

[Zebo]

I find it interesting that you mention this considering how fast the ultra orthodox Jews in Israel also breed. Also, since they study all the time, they are also below the poverty line and are heavily dependent on government welfare. But I'm sure you forgot to mention that group and overlooked the fact that they are not given these birth control pills. If they were offered these pills, it would rip Israel apart. But since they are of European descent I guess it's ok

As for the exodus from Ethiopia to Israel, Operation Moses was done for the same reason Israel will take any Jew, whether real or imagined, from Europe. It is mainly to bulk up the state and "save" Jews from hostile governments. Finally, these groups were literally cut off from the rest of the Jewish disapora when they left Israel a loooooooooooooong time ago. They first settled in Elephantine. Facing a hostile Egyptian Empire in the north, they went east and settled in Ethiopia. Seeing as they were the minority, they adapted most of the customs of the natives.

like ur any better. "breed" is what animals do and you equating Jewish people to animals and using language racists use about blacks and Mexicans to dehumanize them tell me all i need to know. Join your buddy in Israel and have a dual maybe we can get rid of two racists with one shot.

 

[Dari]

like ur any better. "breed" is what animals do and you equating Jewish people to animals and using language racists use about blacks and Mexicans to dehumanize them tell me all i need to know. Join your buddy in Israel and have a dual maybe we can get rid of two racists with one shot.

Are we not animals?

 

[Joepublic2]

Not a whisper of this in any US TV MSM outlets, no surprise. It's been flushed down the memory hole by the powers that be.

 

[Atreus21]

Have there been no updates by Israeli sources?

 

[zinfamous]

Are we not animals?

indeed we are. We are human animals. We self-impose special privilege on ourselves above all other animals, and I would say we do this as necessity.

To equate humans, or any single human with all animals is the working of PETA freaks--those that terrorize cancer research clinics because they claim the life of a purpose-bred mouse is equal to the life of a human, including their own child (real comments, here).

 

[Moonbeam]

indeed we are. We are human animals. We self-impose special privilege on ourselves above all other animals, and I would say we do this as necessity.

To equate humans, or any single human with all animals is the working of PETA freaks--those that terrorize cancer research clinics because they claim the life of a purpose-bred mouse is equal to the life of a human, including their own child (real comments, here).

What proof do you offer for these pure opinions? Isn't the real truth that if you don't treat a mouse like a human being you will actually treat humans like you treat the mouse. If all life isn't sacred human life certainly isn't, right?

 

[SheHateMe]

Speaking of Eugenics....


Did Geosurface get vacationed for his thread?

I mean...I hope not.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

What proof do you offer for these pure opinions? Isn't the real truth that if you don't treat a mouse like a human being you will actually treat humans like you treat the mouse. If all life isn't sacred human life certainly isn't, right?

Research often also benefits animals. Until we can create artifical material that reacts exactly as live animals we can't stop research unless we give up on fighting diseases, both human and animal ones alike.

Animals will still be used (needed) for research in the coming decades. Until there are good alternatives (which in turn require research and comparing live tissue with the artificial material!) research will continue. So at the moment the best thing is to focus on improving the quality of life of test animals, and making sure that testing is as limited as possible and therefor that communication and cooperation between all centres that do research is improved.

In the past there was hardly any communication at all between groups, and where a pharmacological company would test a medicine against a certain form of cancer a psychologist would be testing the psychological effects of the cancer and another group would test the physiological effects. Each of them using their own animals of course.
Nowadays communication is a lot better and more results are shared, which means that those groups can work together and also can benefit from eachother's knowledge on what is best for the animal (research has proven that test results are more valid if the animal is not stressed, so many groups now focus on giving the animal the best life possible).

Stopping with using animals for research from one day to another is a nice ideal, but will work about as well as every human turning vegan from one day to another. Millions upon millions of farm animals would be butchered to free the land for growing vegetables and fruit. And that's something a group like PETA doesn't want to think about either. If you let a society change more gradually you can control the effects of the changes more.


Edit: And my apologies for going so far offtopic.

 

[Moonbeam]

Research often also benefits animals. Until we can create artifical material that reacts exactly as live animals we can't stop research unless we give up on fighting diseases, both human and animal ones alike.

Animals will still be used (needed) for research in the coming decades. Until there are good alternatives (which in turn require research and comparing live tissue with the artificial material!) research will continue. So at the moment the best thing is to focus on improving the quality of life of test animals, and making sure that testing is as limited as possible and therefor that communication and cooperation between all centres that do research is improved.

In the past there was hardly any communication at all between groups, and where a pharmacological company would test a medicine against a certain form of cancer a psychologist would be testing the psychological effects of the cancer and another group would test the physiological effects. Each of them using their own animals of course.
Nowadays communication is a lot better and more results are shared, which means that those groups can work together and also can benefit from eachother's knowledge on what is best for the animal (research has proven that test results are more valid if the animal is not stressed, so many groups now focus on giving the animal the best life possible).

Stopping with using animals for research from one day to another is a nice ideal, but will work about as well as every human turning vegan from one day to another. Millions upon millions of farm animals would be butchered to free the land for growing vegetables and fruit. And that's something a group like PETA doesn't want to think about either. If you let a society change more gradually you can control the effects of the changes more.


Edit: And my apologies for going so far offtopic.

There is far more nuance in your post than the one I responded to. My criticism was directed not so much at animal research as the mental attitude of that poster. We wouldn't want him walking away filled with arrogance and no knowledge he has no soul. He announced as he did because his unconscious is trying to find a way to tell him he's a prick. Because I was reading the thread, that dirty job landed on me.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

There is far more nuance in your post than the one I responded to. My criticism was directed not so much at animal research as the mental attitude of that poster. We wouldn't want him walking away filled with arrogance and no knowledge he has no soul. He announced as he did because his unconscious is trying to find a way to tell him he's a prick. Because I was reading the thread, that dirty job landed on me.

Not sure you can get through to him

I do have to agree with organizations like PETA often being pretty counter-productive though. They see the world as black and white too much.

The RSPCA (the UK version of the SPCA) actually talks to researchers and comes with proof of animals in natural conditions giving more valid results. That is causing more and more a shift towards animal welfare being an important issue in research, and much of the early research into medication for example being done using zebrafish larvae and fruitflies and such rather than on mice or rats. They've done a lot more for animals by accomplishing that than PETA did with saying that all researchers using animals (cute ones of course, non-cute they don't pay much attention to) are evil.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Great, when can we start doing that here? "Here's your welfare check\foodstamps and your depo shot."

Really, for all our advancements the mainstream still cling to that unethical notion that irresponsible childbirth is a fundamental human right.