Israel’s Supreme Court Rules the Military Must Draft Ultra-Orthodox Jews

[WelshBloke]

And people still need to eat so if they can’t leech off others they would still do something to eat.

Unfortunately that usually involves forcing someone else to do the work.

 

[amenx]

Doesnt seem like the bulk of them wish to comply

 

[mikeymikec]

Weirdly they are the biggest cheerleaders of using the military against the Palestinians. They just don't want to do it themselves. Or pay for it.

So like most right-wingers then.

 

[Moonbeam]

So like most right-wingers then.

Are you sure? Religious people are naturally conservative in the fact that most religions are historical relics but from watching the video it seemed to me that those Jews were opposing the Zionist state, which in my opinion is a much more dangerous disease. Like any truly religious person, in my opinion, there is nothing to fear. The point of any real religion, it seems to me, is to become truly human to experience the joy of being in love with life itself.

 

[sdifox]

Are you sure? Religious people are naturally conservative in the fact that most religions are historical relics but from watching the video it seemed to me that those Jews were opposing the Zionist state, which in my opinion is a much more dangerous disease. Like any truly religious person, in my opinion, there is nothing to fear. The point of any real religion, it seems to me, is to become truly human to experience the joy of being in love with life itself.

That is why the infidels have to die.

 

[Moonbeam]

That is why the infidels have to die.

The term infidel is a word used by self haters to express that hate indirectly on others to deny their own inner pain. It is therefore a term used by people without real faith since we all know that God loves everyone equally, right? For self haters love is the one thing they lack and therefore the one precious item they pretend to have and do not want to share. No self hater believes that God loves worthless people, especially themselves, hence all the hate.

You can't really love life without also loving yourself and that is what real religion is trying to achieve.

And anyway, my point was that from what I saw in the video the rioting Jews were opposing Zionism not pushing the Israeli military to expand Israeli territory while relieving them of that job.

 

[sdifox]

The term infidel is a word used by self haters to express that hate indirectly on others to deny their own inner pain. It is therefore a term used by people without real faith since we all know that God loves everyone equally, right? For self haters love is the one thing they lack and therefore the one precious item they pretend to have and do not want to share. No self hater believes that God loves worthless people, especially themselves, hence all the hate.

You can't really love life without also loving yourself and that is what real religion is trying to achieve.

Infidel is whoever that has a different belief than you.

From Oxford Dictionary

a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own.
"a crusade against infidels and heretics"

 

[Moonbeam]

Infidel is whoever that has a different belief than you.

From Oxford Dictionary

a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own.
"a crusade against infidels and heretics"

You provided the definition of a word used to classify a certain behavior. For me such knowledge is useless. What matters in my opinion, is to understand why that behavior exists. I provided my opinion on that. Self hate is the unconscious motivator that drives people to need to differentiate us from them, to fear and hate difference. Without difference life would not be worth living. To love difference is to end it.

As Nasrudin says: Oh my Beloved! Wherever I look it appears to be Thou. This is what appears out of the darkness when the self returns to its source.

 

[sdifox]

You provided the definition of a word used to classify a certain behavior. For me such knowledge is useless. What matters in my opinion, is to understand why that behavior exists. I provided my opinion on that. Self hate is the unconscious motivator that drives people to need to differentiate us from them, to fear and hate difference. Without difference life would not be worth living. To love difference is to end it.

As Nasrudin says: Oh my Beloved! Wherever I look it appears to be Thou. This is what appears out of the darkness when the self returns to its source.

Your opinion means shit to the world that go by definition of words. You don't get to change that.

 

[amenx]

Are you sure? Religious people are naturally conservative in the fact that most religions are historical relics but from watching the video it seemed to me that those Jews were opposing the Zionist state, which in my opinion is a much more dangerous disease. Like any truly religious person, in my opinion, there is nothing to fear. The point of any real religion, it seems to me, is to become truly human to experience the joy of being in love with life itself.

Not all of them were anti-Zionist (as the Neturei Karta anti-Zionist channel are trying to portray). Pretty sure the majority were ultra-Orthodox Jews that support Zionism but are against conscription for different religious reasons. Should have noted that when posting the vid.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/01/middleeast/ultra-orthodox-in-israel-defy-orders-to-serve-in-military-mime-intl/index.html

 

[Moonbeam]

You provided the definition of a word used to classify a certain behavior. For me such knowledge is useless. What matters in my opinion, is to understand why that behavior exists. I provided my opinion on that. Self hate is the unconscious motivator that drives people to need to differentiate us from them, to fear and hate difference. Without difference life would not be worth living. To love difference is to end it.

As Nasrudin says: Oh my Beloved! Wherever I look it appears to be Thou. This is what appears out of the darkness when the self returns to its source.

Your opinion means shit to the world that go by definition of words. You don't get to change that.

I suppose that by ‘means shit’ you wish to relay the feeling you are angrily feeling I was challenging your definition and somehow therefore insulting you whereas what I see is a person whose whose emotional feelings got in the way of your ability to think logically.

Nothing about what I said implies any challenge to normal definitions or that they do not serve a purpose. What I said was that I am interested in the psychological or existential factors that cause us to create them. Why did we invent a word like infidel. What is the purpose of pejorative words. Out of what motivation do we create them. What do the words people use tell us about them?

 

[sdifox]

I suppose that by ‘means shit’ you wish to relay the feeling you are angrily feeling I was challenging your definition and somehow therefore insulting you whereas what I see is a person whose whose emotional feelings got in the way of your ability to think logically.

Nothing about what I said implies any challenge to normal definitions or that they do not serve a purpose. What I said was that I am interested in the psychological or existential factors that cause us to create them. Why did we invent a word like infidel. What is the purpose of pejorative words. Out of what motivation do we create them. What do the words people use tell us about them?

No it means you can feel however you want without impacting anyone else. It's just a communication problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

No it means you can feel however you want without impacting anyone else. It's just a communication problem.

The idea that I attempted to express was that there are Jews who see Zionism as a violation of the real meaning of Judaism and for that reason, not some wish to kill infidels directly or by proxy, will not serve to defend a state that violates their religious beliefs. Since you added the killing infidels part as somehow the real motivation behind the sort of Judaism I think also exists, I gave you my opinion of what I think causes the specific perversion version of religious belief your comment properly refers to.

I did so specifically to provide you with the data required to differentiate between two types of Jews those who justify their secular goals of having the state do their dirty work and to create a Zionist state and Jews who will not so participate. I did so because I believe there are Jews who practice what I believe is a much deeper, more fundamental more profound faith.

I regarded your original comment, therefore, as an ignorant and simpleminded slur that attempted to lump all Jews and all forms of believers in the same nasty pit to which so many fall.

In short if we have a problem in communication I hope this makes my point clearer and that the source of the communication problem was not bigotry on your end because you are certainly right that, no matter what anyone says to a bigot, they will not hear it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Not all of them were anti-Zionist (as the Neturei Karta anti-Zionist channel are trying to portray). Pretty sure the majority were ultra-Orthodox Jews that support Zionism but are against conscription for different religious reasons. Should have noted that when posting the vid.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/01/middleeast/ultra-orthodox-in-israel-defy-orders-to-serve-in-military-mime-intl/index.html

Yes, I know. We used to have the draft in this country and we still have plenty of patriotic idolatry, where somehow it falls on the youth that they should expect of themselves they should die for their country like cannon fodder and it is perfectly acceptable for those who buy into that notion to hate those who do not. “Worthless selfish cowards that want the privilege of American life but don’t want to serve it.”

God help those of young age who get infected early by that sort of bullshit and only later see it for what it is. They will always be lumped in with people like Donald Trump who only sees those who serve as losers.

 

[Moonbeam]

both.


That one was obvious.


The guy is claiming to be all faiths, creeds, and religions. -shrug-


It would almost work, but I do have some serious issues with the ones involving human sacrifice, animal torture, ritualistic maiming, caste systems, pedophilia, non-consensual actions including marriage, and those that break up families and relationships.


Anything that has great power to be used for Good, also has great power to be used for Evil.

I am technically more of a non-believer. Since, as you say anything that has the power to do good also has the power to do evil, but because I am a non-believer, I don't know what good and evil are so for me they do not exist. For that reason the faiths, creeds and religions you seem to think I could espouse I have to inform you that I can't. Those are all phenomenon that happen because of belief that they should. But , if you look closely there is no proof. So think of the vast wisdom I possess. It's not that I know anything but rather that all the bullshit and lies that others hold as dear mean nothing to me. The amount of shit that you know not to mention the additional amounts that knowers claim are like a vacuum the size of the universe. I suspect, therefore, that what threatens you the most in confrontation via with conversing with me is, that while I know nothing you are full of it. The really sad part for me though is that instead of just hearing that as a fact you might profit from you will turn it around and stab yourself in the eye by taking it as an insult. As I recall you seem to promote a feminist point of view and view a Goddess as a symbol of truth, truth in the form of love, and you don't have to know anything to feel love because it is real. For the meek and unassuming it might be a short hop to such a wonderful inner condition as opposed to those who imagine they know all sorts of things but in fact know nothing. They have more delusions to undo.

If you want to know what my real problem is at least in my opinion, it is that while I know I know nothing, I often forget.

 

[pmv]

I will keep repeating.

Religious fundamentalism regardless of religion is a threat to freedom and democracy.

Fuck all fundies

Religious fundamentalism also seems to be associated with much higher birth-rates and, combined with strong methods to deter defections, ever-increasing numbers.

Perhaps that's what Israel is worried about - eventually there will be so many of the ultra-orthadox that the military won't be sustainable if they are all exempt.

The relationship between the Israeli version of 'fundies' and the right sounds quite complicated, though.

The Power of Israel’s Ultra-Orthodox Has Peaked

Secular Israelis fear the growing Haredi population will give religious parties more power. Economics and labor market trends suggest their power is fading.

foreignpolicy.com

The Central Bureau of Statistics estimates the ultra-Orthodox grew from 10 percent of Israel’s population in 2009 to 13 percent last year. By 2042, they will account for nearly 21 percent, and by 2062 almost a third.

 

[KMFJD]

i guess they started to arrest a few draft dodgers and the rest of the monk army is upset

The paper accuses Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara of “leading a draconian campaign” in an effort “to push the state authorities into an irreversible clash with Torah-observant Haredi Judaism,” adding that efforts to enforce the law against draft evaders had crossed a “red line.”

Newspapers affiliated with Haredi parties declare ‘war’ over IDF draft after arrests

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

“Two brothers were arrested in the dead of night from their home and sent to prison for simply studying Torah,” the newspaper states, adding that “this is no longer theoretical, this is a war.”

“We will fight with dedication for every yeshiva student, we will not give up on anyone, all members of Haredi Judaism must prepare for the great campaign,” the paper quotes senior rabbis as saying.


they sound mad, can't they just pray the authorities away like they say they pray against the enemies of israel