Isn't it a shame that war is so difficult these days?

[CanOWorms]

Holocaust II in Europe may happen without WWIII 🙁 It's sad to see history repeating itself.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Sysadmin

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Not to mention that WWII lasted for almost 5 years. We've been in Iraq what? One year now? The death toll in Iraq is in the thousands (counting both sides). WWII was in the millions.

We didn't exactly 'school' Germany. That was a long drawn out battle over many countries and it took years for the Allies to finally defeat Hitler's army.

I don't think war was ever easy.

I agree...If Hitler would have let his Generals run the war instead of himself they might have won it. The German's has the best and most well trained soldiers in the world at that time.


Sysadmin

If he had the kind of personality to let his Generals have more control he'd probably not have had the kind of personality which got him to where he got 🙂

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Good Point...it was kind of hit and run fighting.


Sysadmin

That was also the first time anybody used germ warfare. The Brits gave some Indians blankets that were purposely infected with smallpox

Germ warfare is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay older than that. Flinging corpses that died due to the bubonic plague happened a lot in Europe. And that still isnt the first recorded incident.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Good Point...it was kind of hit and run fighting.


Sysadmin

That was also the first time anybody used germ warfare. The Brits gave some Indians blankets that were purposely infected with smallpox

Germ warfare is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay older than that. Flinging corpses that died due to the bubonic plague happened a lot in Europe. And that still isnt the first recorded incident.

I wasn't aware of that but knowing Mankinds propensity to find devious ways of killing each other I can believe it

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Yeah it could have gone better. We should of had more troops and we shouldn't have disbanded the Iraqi Army which has come back to bite us on the ass.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Yeah it could have gone better. We should of had more troops and we shouldn't have disbanded the Iraqi Army which has come back to bite us on the ass.

More troops would have been pointless. There is no unified front to fight. The key now is strategy, not brute force. The time for brute force came and went.

As for the Iraqi army, it HAD to be disbanded and a new one built. The old one was filled with leaders who had swore allegiance to Saddam. Just as we completely disbanded and rebuilt Germany's army and did a years long "De-Nazification" we must do the same thing in Iraq.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Yeah it could have gone better. We should of had more troops and we shouldn't have disbanded the Iraqi Army which has come back to bite us on the ass.

More troops would have been pointless. There is no unified front to fight. The key now is strategy, not brute force. The time for brute force came and went.

Wrong. As it is we are extending many of the reserves deployment and have added more troops

As for the Iraqi army, it HAD to be disbanded and a new one built. The old one was filled with leaders who had swore allegiance to Saddam. Just as we completely disbanded and rebuilt Germany's army and did a years long "De-Nazification" we must do the same thing in Iraq.

Much of the trouble we faced were from ex Iraqi Soldiers who had nowhere to go affter the war. Many of them joined up with other Militias. Right now we are adding Baathists generals to the New Iraqi Army because there is no onme capable of leading the Iraqi Army adequately. Also many of the experts have also stated that disbanding the Iraqi Army was a huge mistake. That's not saying we couldn't have purged the Army of devout Sadam Loyalists but many who were the Generals were only so for career choices and only swore Allegence to Sadam for their own Safety and Security

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Um there was a large German resistance after world war II. Occupation? as I recall we still have soldiers stationed in Germany, Japan and then a later war, Korea.

Visit this website that has clips of newspapers from that time. CounterRevolutionary

Here is a good one: British to Quell Hamburg Rioting.


We don't seem to remember what happend in Germany post world war II because it does not really matter all that much anymore. People will forgot what happend in Iraq 50 years from now

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

or this one:
Germans return to Nationalism
US seen as 'fumbling' its job in Germany
RULE IN GERMANY HITS SNAGS IN U.S. and RULE OF GERMANY DEFENDED BY ARMY
DARK GERMAN OUTLOOK ENCOURAGES RESISTANCE
U.S. PRESTIGE DROPS AFTER GI PROTESTS

*yawn* The media. Some things never change.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Aww, come on!
Germany wer´nt really a threat to us, they would never manage a attack on our mainland.
Germany begun the war with invading Poland. After that, they started to occupy country after country. If noone would´ve tried to stop them they just would have kept on going, soon all of Europe would´ve benn occupied by the third reich. They even moved into asia, invaded the Sovjet union.
And some of you say Germany never really posed any threat to you?
Don´t you think, a warmachine as great as Russia and Europe together would have a chance to take you guys on?
And trust me, Hitler would have done it. He was smart, and greedy. Once he realised that noone was to stop him at the east side of the atlantic maybe he would´ve settled down, he could´ve been satisfied.
But if you had tried to bring him back by then, I don´t think you would´ve standed a chance, and I´m glad you acted before that would´ve happend. Otherwise mine country aswell would´ve been occupied.
And the british wouldn´t have managed to fight Hitler off by themselves, neither with the help from Australia. The only chance they had, in my oppinion, to defeat Hitler without the americans help would´ve been with the help from Sovjet. The red army together with the british I think could´ve destroyed Hitler, by fighting themselves down, starting from the northen part of Europe, that way, the Russian and the brittish could´ve sent backup ect. to eachother without interferance from Germany.
Akthough, everyone knows that the Sovjet never would´ve become allies with the actual allies.
Well, thats my oppinion of ther war, and may God bless Sweden! 😛

 

[skychief]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Yeah it could have gone better. We should of had more troops and we shouldn't have disbanded the Iraqi Army which has come back to bite us on the ass.

More troops would have been pointless. There is no unified front to fight. The key now is strategy, not brute force. The time for brute force came and went.

Wrong. As it is we are extending many of the reserves deployment and have added more troops

As for the Iraqi army, it HAD to be disbanded and a new one built. The old one was filled with leaders who had swore allegiance to Saddam. Just as we completely disbanded and rebuilt Germany's army and did a years long "De-Nazification" we must do the same thing in Iraq.

Much of the trouble we faced were from ex Iraqi Soldiers who had nowhere to go affter the war. Many of them joined up with other Militias. Right now we are adding Baathists generals to the New Iraqi Army because there is no onme capable of leading the Iraqi Army adequately. Also many of the experts have also stated that disbanding the Iraqi Army was a huge mistake. That's not saying we couldn't have purged the Army of devout Sadam Loyalists but many who were the Generals were only so for career choices and only swore Allegence to Sadam for their own Safety and Security

I agree with you but I really don't think it will matter what kind of army is put together. I try to look at this war from both sides and in our enemies shoes I doubt many wouldn't do the same. This is war, and in this war the extremists in Iraq know that they have no chance in hell if they face us head on so they must resort to these sneaky tactics to have any chance of hurting us. It makes one wonder though, if that every time one of these car bombs goes off at a check point that the average Iraq, who hated Saddam and was shown gleefully greeting us, still dosen't cheer inside. I believe that, in the end, if everything goes all right, we will have a country that will possibly co exist with us but will still resent, not understand, and fear us. It will be like Saudi Arabia, most Saudis know and belive that terrorism is wrong but it's easy to look the other way because you have to support the home team if not for anything, at least pride.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
Aww, come on!
Germany wer´nt really a threat to us, they would never manage a attack on our mainland.
Germany begun the war with invading Poland. After that, they started to occupy country after country. If noone would´ve tried to stop them they just would have kept on going, soon all of Europe would´ve benn occupied by the third reich. They even moved into asia, invaded the Sovjet union.
And some of you say Germany never really posed any threat to you?
Don´t you think, a warmachine as great as Russia and Europe together would have a chance to take you guys on?
And trust me, Hitler would have done it. He was smart, and greedy. Once he realised that noone was to stop him at the east side of the atlantic maybe he would´ve settled down, he could´ve been satisfied.
But if you had tried to bring him back by then, I don´t think you would´ve standed a chance, and I´m glad you acted before that would´ve happend. Otherwise mine country aswell would´ve been occupied.
And the british wouldn´t have managed to fight Hitler off by themselves, neither with the help from Australia. The only chance they had, in my oppinion, to defeat Hitler without the americans help would´ve been with the help from Sovjet. The red army together with the british I think could´ve destroyed Hitler, by fighting themselves down, starting from the northen part of Europe, that way, the Russian and the brittish could´ve sent backup ect. to eachother without interferance from Germany.
Akthough, everyone knows that the Sovjet never would´ve become allies with the actual allies.
Well, thats my oppinion of ther war, and may God bless Sweden! 😛

😕 <---- here is you

Here is the point ------> 😎

The point was, Germany posed no IMMEDATE threat to the US, and if the same conditions existed today that existed in 1941, that is what the same isolationists would be saying.

Please try and comprehend what you are reading before replying.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
Aww, come on!
Germany wer´nt really a threat to us, they would never manage a attack on our mainland.
Germany begun the war with invading Poland. After that, they started to occupy country after country. If noone would´ve tried to stop them they just would have kept on going, soon all of Europe would´ve benn occupied by the third reich. They even moved into asia, invaded the Sovjet union.
And some of you say Germany never really posed any threat to you?
Don´t you think, a warmachine as great as Russia and Europe together would have a chance to take you guys on?
And trust me, Hitler would have done it. He was smart, and greedy. Once he realised that noone was to stop him at the east side of the atlantic maybe he would´ve settled down, he could´ve been satisfied.
But if you had tried to bring him back by then, I don´t think you would´ve standed a chance, and I´m glad you acted before that would´ve happend. Otherwise mine country aswell would´ve been occupied.
And the british wouldn´t have managed to fight Hitler off by themselves, neither with the help from Australia. The only chance they had, in my oppinion, to defeat Hitler without the americans help would´ve been with the help from Sovjet. The red army together with the british I think could´ve destroyed Hitler, by fighting themselves down, starting from the northen part of Europe, that way, the Russian and the brittish could´ve sent backup ect. to eachother without interferance from Germany.
Akthough, everyone knows that the Sovjet never would´ve become allies with the actual allies.
Well, thats my oppinion of ther war, and may God bless Sweden! 😛

😕 <---- here is you

Here is the point ------> 😎

The point was, Germany posed no IMMEDATE threat to the US, and if the same conditions existed today that existed in 1941, that is what the same isolationists would be saying.

Please try and comprehend what you are reading before replying.

well, som people says Germany never posed any threat to the US. I just tried to say that if they didn´t to it at the beginning of the war, they would´ve done when they occupied most of Europe.
Some said that because Germany didn´t pose any immediate threat to the US, USA shouldn´t have entered the war, and yes, maybe I´m a little bit confused, cause it´s kinda late here😛, but I´ll stay with my statement until tomorrow morning. Gnite

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Amused

Hitler wasn't so stupid that he would have wasted resources where he didn't need them in such a fashion.

I disagree. We're talking about the same man who instructed the Luftwaffe to use the Me-262 as a bomber when it was designed as a fighter, which was a huge waste of resources. Hitler regularly made decisions based on emotion and gut feeling, and he wouldn't have had any qualms about 'wasting resources' because he believed that Germany was all-powerful and would ultimately prevail no matter what.

 

[StageLeft]

Thanks for the links CaptainGoodnight. I was unable to find any myself meaningful.

It wasn't a smooth transition evidently, but it's still not comporable on scale to what is seen in Iraq. In one of those articles it says that American soldiers and intelligence officers weren't very worried. In another "there is no national underground movement in Germany today." These are growing pains compared to fighting in Iraq.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Sysadmin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Sysadmin
Guerilla Warfare was started by the confederates in the revolutionary War. That is where the "sniper" was created. The most feared and hated soldier in Warfare.


Sysadmin

Confederates? I wasn't aware of any Militia during the Revolutionary war that went by that name

Sorry meant Civil war


sysadmin<---hiding in a corner

Actually snipers have been around since the revolutionary war. The british (redcoats) were easy targets for militiamen hiding in trees to pick off while they marched from battle to battle.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Israel never waged a 'war' of aggression. They just build walls and bulldoze the land that they want because 12 year old kids throw rocks at them from windows.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: nan0bug

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Israel never waged a 'war' of aggression. They just build walls and bulldoze the land that they want because 12 year old kids throw rocks at them from windows.

You obviously know nothing of the many, many wars of aggression the arab nations have waged against Israel. Maybe you should learn some history and context before judging them.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: nan0bug

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
We had no idea they had any missile program in 1941.

Their subs were a threat only to our shipments to England and other allies. Appeasement would have stopped any attacks on US shipping.

The US also had no idea of Germany's Nuclear programs in 1941.

If you are going to argue reasons to enter into war with Germany in 1941, you must argue with what we knew in 1941.

All we had to know is that they were allies of a country who attacked us and if not defeated they would have conquered all of Germany. Your "Fortress America" theory is full of holes just as your justification for invading Iraq (how many UN Resolutions has Israel ignored?).


That said, I'm not for pulling out of Iraq now. We already screwed the pooch on this one and made that region unstable and made the world a more dangerous place. If we were to pull out without seeing this thing through it will only comound of fsck up.

What we do need to do now is let the Generals run this war and send the Neocons like Wolfowitz and Rummy packing, whether the Dub is re-elected or not.

Of course my "Fortress America" theory is full of holes. But it's the same isolationist bullsh!t we are hearing about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.

I assert that were the same conditions to exist today that existed in 1941, our country would react very differently. Mostly due to the fact that anti-war protesters in 1941 were promptly jailed. Try that now.

Israel has never waged a war of aggression. They have been the victim on countless occations and have emerged the victor every time... but instead of finishing it once and for all, they continually balked for fear of being seen as the Nazis they so hated. They needed to sh!t or get off the pot back in 67... but that's another issue.

Iraq WAS an agressor nation, and at great cost the US evicted them from Kuwait. The US had a much more vested interest in any cease fire agreements with Iraq than they have ever had with Israel. But I suspect you know this.

At any rate, there is no way an occupation of Iraq could be going any smoother. I hear these claims all the time and ask, "how would you make it go better." No one ever has a valid answer. The fact of the matter is, ANY presence we have in the ME will be a prime target for every two bit terrorist org. It's better they target us there, than here. And ignoring it will NOT make it go away. Ignoring things is what led to WWII and 9/11.

Israel never waged a 'war' of aggression. They just build walls and bulldoze the land that they want because 12 year old kids throw rocks at them from windows.

Yeah, that an suicide bombing killing a dozen people here or there. Same thing though.

 

[nan0bug]

If some occupying army bulldozed my mom's house, killed off a couple of my neighbors kids 'by accident' and left everyone in my neighborhood poverty stricken, I would probbably strap a bomb to my chest and try and take out as many of those motherf#$kers as possible too.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: nan0bug
If some occupying army bulldozed my mom's house, killed off a couple of my neigbors kids 'by accident' and left everyone in my neighborhood poverty stricken, I would probbably strap a bomb to my chest and try and take out as many of those motherf#$kers as possible too.

Well it comes down to who started it I guess. I don't think either side really cares anymore who did.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: nan0bug
If some occupying army bulldozed my mom's house, killed off a couple of my neigbors kids 'by accident' and left everyone in my neighborhood poverty stricken, I would probbably strap a bomb to my chest and try and take out as many of those motherf#$kers as possible too.

Well it comes down to who started it I guess. I don't think either side really cares anymore who did.

Yeah, the whole sitation is screwed up. I honestly think they've both gone too far to turn back the tide of violence now.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas
No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.

Indeed, there were recruits over 40 years old... anyone in Germany that was capable of fighting would have been enlisted/recruited.
However, the real reason was that almost everyone of the "liberated" considered themselves under a better time after the liberation than immediately before. This is not true in Iraq, there are plenty there that consider the american regime something that does not belong there.
Is it better for them? Probably yes. They consider it better? There are many that don't consider that.

Calin