Isn't it a shame that war is so difficult these days?

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No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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The ending of WWII was just a false sense of security. Only 5 years after we were battling our allies in Korea. Some directly and others indirectly.
 

tennisflip

Golden Member
Sep 25, 2003
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I was just on a plane that flew over the beaches of Normandy. It was pretty cool. And, yes, war is different nowadays, but the unlike back in the days of WW2 there aren't two juggernaut sides fighting it out, so it seems like common sense for the weaker side to resort to their present tactics.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
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Not to mention that WWII lasted for almost 5 years. We've been in Iraq what? One year now? The death toll in Iraq is in the thousands (counting both sides). WWII was in the millions.

We didn't exactly 'school' Germany. That was a long drawn out battle over many countries and it took years for the Allies to finally defeat Hitler's army.

I don't think war was ever easy.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
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War itself is a shame... it sucks when people die. However, Dubya has two options before November and one of them is going to happen. Either (1) They are going to get Osama out of his cell, fly him to the Mideast and announce his capture... or (2) Withdraw troops out of Iraq.

Which sounds easier?
 

iliopsoas

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2001
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No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.
 

cipher00

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
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I'd just like to point out that there was another theater in WWII, the Pacific. And there was oodles of guerrilla fighting there.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: iliopsoas
No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.
I think that it was because the culture was different. People didn't have religious motivations, so when they were defeated they knew it and just wanted to get back to their lives and start living again.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: iliopsoas
No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.

You need to read about WWII in southeast asia. The British and the Japaneese were at it.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: iliopsoas
No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.
I think that it was because the culture was different. People didn't have religious motivations, so when they were defeated they knew it and just wanted to get back to their lives and start living again.

Nazism was a religion with every bit as much fanatism as the hard core Muslims.
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
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The war with Iraq IS over.

The fight with terrorists is what we are fighting now, both those that live in Iraq and the ones coming from neighboring countries. We are fighting against religious extremists and that doesn't have any borders or front lines unfortunately.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: iliopsoas
No guerilla warfare back in World War II because the casualties were so high and there weren't many left alive to fight. By the end of the war, people were sick of fighting.
I think that it was because the culture was different. People didn't have religious motivations, so when they were defeated they knew it and just wanted to get back to their lives and start living again.

Nazism was a religion with every bit as much fanatism as the hard core Muslims.
It was a way of life, but I wasn't aware that it was a religion.

Anyway, like you said they killed them all (well, most) so that was that. It's proving difficult to "kill them all" in the middle east

:disgust:
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,722
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.

Don't forget the Russians. The Nazis could only throw a fraction of their real strength against the US/British forces becase of the eastern front.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.
 

MattCo

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2001
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In WWII the effort had support from home as well. In the battles since Korea, the public has been sharply divided between whether to even fight or not. Without unified support, it is much easier for the enemy to string it out for a few years and hope that they can keep a foothold once we give out.

On D-Day tens of thousands of troops died in a few days. Do you think that the general population of the US would let that happen today?


-MC
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,701
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.

Germany posed no real threat to us, and had never attacked us. There would be people protesting in the streets and riots over the draft. Banners would read "THIS IS NOT OUR WAR."

Japan did attack us, however, in today's climate, the population would be calling for an end to the war after the first 1000 or so flag drapped coffins came in on a C140 and pictured in the newspapers.

Let's face it, no matter how much we are attacked, we do not have the same stomach we had back then to take casualties. We are not the same people.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,701
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Originally posted by: MattCo
In WWII the effort had support from home as well. In the battles since Korea, the public has been sharply divided between whether to even fight or not. Without unified support, it is much easier for the enemy to string it out for a few years and hope that they can keep a foothold once we give out.

On D-Day tens of thousands of troops died in a few days. Do you think that the general population of the US would let that happen today?


-MC

D-Day wasn't tens of thousands, but it was thousands.

"The breakdown of US casualties was 1465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach."

At any rate, you are exactly right. We would have had calls to end the war after the first couple thousand lost their lives in North Africa.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.

Germany posed no real threat to us, and had never attacked us. There would be people protesting in the streets and riots over the draft. Banners would read "THIS IS NOT OUR WAR."

Japan did attack us, however, in today's climate, the population would be calling for an end to the war after the first 1000 or so flag drapped coffins came in on a C140 and pictured in the newspapers.

Let's face it, no matter how much we are attacked, we do not have the same stomach we had back then to take casualties. We are not the same people.
I disagree. We don't have the stomach to fight wars for pure political reasons but when our survival as a country is at stake Americans will do what it takes.
 

Sideswipe001

Golden Member
May 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: MattCo
In WWII the effort had support from home as well. In the battles since Korea, the public has been sharply divided between whether to even fight or not. Without unified support, it is much easier for the enemy to string it out for a few years and hope that they can keep a foothold once we give out.

On D-Day tens of thousands of troops died in a few days. Do you think that the general population of the US would let that happen today?


-MC


They might not, but that wouldn't make it right. I have no idea why the press makes it out to be so huge a deal when we lose one or two soldiers in war now. Yes, they were people with lives; but they joined the army and are fighting for a cause they felt was worth dying for.

The war with Iraq IS over. It's now pascifying radical groups, not some big coherant government.
 

I disagree. We don't have the stomach to fight wars for pure political reasons but when our survival as a country is at stake Americans will do what it takes.


:beer:
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,701
17,173
146
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.

Germany posed no real threat to us, and had never attacked us. There would be people protesting in the streets and riots over the draft. Banners would read "THIS IS NOT OUR WAR."

Japan did attack us, however, in today's climate, the population would be calling for an end to the war after the first 1000 or so flag drapped coffins came in on a C140 and pictured in the newspapers.

Let's face it, no matter how much we are attacked, we do not have the same stomach we had back then to take casualties. We are not the same people.
I disagree. We don't have the stomach to fight wars for pure political reasons but when our survival as a country is at stake Americans will do what it takes.

Germany was not a direct threat to our survival.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.

Germany posed no real threat to us, and had never attacked us. There would be people protesting in the streets and riots over the draft. Banners would read "THIS IS NOT OUR WAR."

Japan did attack us, however, in today's climate, the population would be calling for an end to the war after the first 1000 or so flag drapped coffins came in on a C140 and pictured in the newspapers.

Let's face it, no matter how much we are attacked, we do not have the same stomach we had back then to take casualties. We are not the same people.
I disagree. We don't have the stomach to fight wars for pure political reasons but when our survival as a country is at stake Americans will do what it takes.

Germany was not a direct threat to our survival.
Yes they were
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,701
17,173
146
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was reading the latest time about D-Day and it got me thinking. When the Allies schooled Germany in WWII, there wasn't a long drawn out occupation with years of guerilla fighting afterwards. You went in, kicked some ass, and then the war is over. People KNEW when the war was over, and the rebuilding could commence. There hasn't been a conflict like that in a long time (except for the first Gulf War I suppose when Kuwait was freed). Will we even know when the Iraq war has been won?

Back in the day you had a frontline. If you moved it 3 miles, that was 3 miles you'd won. Nowadays you come in, take everything over, and then there is no frontline, because guerillas and insurgents will crop up anywhere at any time. What a pain in the ass it all is.

I'm not saying war was ever easy, but it was must have been nice knowing that when it came to an end, it really came to an end. Your enemy was in front of you and after one of you beats the other, that's it.

PS - 60 year anniversary coming up for D-Day. If you've not seen Band of Brothers yet, go rent it or buy it already!

WWII lasted for five years and tens of millions of lives. We targeted the entire population of Germany and decimated their young male population. Germany was not surrounded by terrorist nations nor was nazism supported by any (surviving) terrorist organizations.

In other words, we beat the fight out of them and they had no allies left to fight for them.

Let's put it this way, were WWII to happen today, our population would call for us to pull out after the losses in North Africa. We never would have made it to Italy, much less D-Day. There would be no support for a war against Germany, and withering support for a war against Japan.
I doubt it, we were fighting for our survival as a free country.

Germany posed no real threat to us, and had never attacked us. There would be people protesting in the streets and riots over the draft. Banners would read "THIS IS NOT OUR WAR."

Japan did attack us, however, in today's climate, the population would be calling for an end to the war after the first 1000 or so flag drapped coffins came in on a C140 and pictured in the newspapers.

Let's face it, no matter how much we are attacked, we do not have the same stomach we had back then to take casualties. We are not the same people.
I disagree. We don't have the stomach to fight wars for pure political reasons but when our survival as a country is at stake Americans will do what it takes.

Germany was not a direct threat to our survival.
Yes they were

How? They had no means to mount an effective attack on the US mainland. They had not attacked us before. They posed no immediate threat to us.