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Islamists retreat in Ethopian led attack in Somalia

jrenz

Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/world...88a3be0393151&ei=5094&partner=homepage

NAIROBI, Kenya, Dec. 26 ? The Islamist forces once in control of much of Somalia are crumbling faster than anyone expected and beat a hasty retreat back to their stronghold in Mogadishu, Somalia?s battle-scarred capital, on Tuesday.

...

The Islamist fighters, who had seemed invincible after taking Mogadishu from the city?s warlords in June, now seem powerless to stop the steady advance of the internationally recognized transitional government and the Ethiopian forces that are backing it.

...

American officials have given Ethiopia, one its closest allies in Africa, their tacit approval to do what is necessary to neutralize the Islamists, whom American intelligence agents have accused of sheltering terrorists with Al Qaeda. But American officials have asked Ethiopia to avoid strikes that could kill large numbers of civilians, and so far Ethiopia seems to be cooperating.

Just a few snippets from the 2 page article.

Haven't really seen much of this being talked about. Heck, I didn't know Ethiopia had enough non-starving children in loinclothes to fight, much less fighter jets and gunships.
 
Ethiopia is going to kick some ass if they decide to get serious about it. Still, the conflict will cause instability in the area and probably trigger terrorist attacks in the region...
 
Ethopia has an air force with MiGs and pilots that can fly the planes?

There are things worth more than a bomb and jet fuel to get there in Somalia to bomb?

Seems like the money should be spent on feeding the starving population, or they going the population reduction route?
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
I hope the Ethiopians exterminate every extremist in the region.

Hell, I hope every extremist ("Islamist" or otherwise) everywhere in the world ends up dead or marginalized like the KKK is in America. But I'd hold off on my cheering in this particular situation, "transitional governments" in Africa have a very nasty habit of being even more bloodthirsty than whatever rebels they were fighting. For the moment things look OK, but I'd lay better than even odds that, when all this is over, some group of people in the region will be slaughtered by some other group of people. All the fighting in Africa ever seems to accomplish is to change which group is on which side of the guns.
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: jrenz

I was thinking more like this

I was thinking more like this.

I guess some of you weren't paying attention then. The Ethiopians have an experianced military.

And I am sure no one is real enthused when your neighbors invite 'the Al Qaedas' over to live in the spare room....

 
Ethiopia has an airforce? Maybe they should sell some of those jets and feed their population rather than beg people on tv and the UN to feed them.
 
I don't think US involvement in this conflict is very big. It's really pretty simple. Eritrea and Ethiopia hate each other. Eritrea helps out the neo-taliban islamic courts movement (who is trying to take over somalia). Ethiopia doesn't want any terrorists on their border, so they are going to get involved now and squash the islamic courts before it gets hard. I say good for Ethiopia and good riddance.
 
Originally posted by: wazzledoozle

"Training in de-mining, humanitarian and peace-keeping operations, professional military education, and military justice are among the major programs sponsored by the U.S."

So basically it's US trained and supplied soldiers, pilots, and weapons fighting this proxy war.

Would you rather it be American troops on the ground? Maybe they can make the sequel to the movie for your pleasure?
 
Originally posted by: beyoku

I have paid much attention to these events as i have family and a spouse currently in Ethiopia.....So i may be biased.

Some background

-Ethiopia is over 40% Muslim for the record.
-Ethiopia and Somalia do NOT need war at this time. Both countries are weak and a major part of Somalia is trying to deal with a natural disaster. Ethiopia has just overcome natural disasters as well.
-Ethiopia is the 4th poorest country on the planet and im sure Somalia is less that 3 slots away - give or take. They need to spend the money building up their infrastructure instead of war. Ethiopia needs to learn with its wasting of money on fighting Eritrea for 20+years.
-Somali has not had a govt for over 15 year and the Union of Islamic courts (UIC) DID defeat the warlords and bring stability to the country UNDER their control...And the capital. And they did it VERY FAST and were VERY EFFECTIVE. So this is something they can do, bring stability.
-The U.I.C. does want to bring a strict interpretation of Sharia law to Somalia. The have already taken steps like banning the popular stimulant Khat (That people have been chewing for 400 of years). They also banned the watching of soccer, one person died over it. Also calling for death to folks that don't pray their 5 times a day. etc etc etc. Although BUSH says that the UIC have ties to alqueda it seems highly unlikely. We probably have ZERO evidence of this. Bush may be confusing the history of Somalia with Sudan.

The issue.

The main issue is that the UIC has setup shop successfully in Mogadishu and wants to also take control for the struggling interim government. The interim government wants a secular state and NOT an Islamic one. Ethiopia is backing the Interim government. Eritrea, Ethiopia's enemy to the north (who still has issues over border demarcation in the war that ended fairly recent - 2000 ) is supporting the UIC with weapons. Both Ethiopia and Eritrea have soldiers in Somalia supporting either side.
The latest, and even bigger problem and what really cannot be ignored by Ethiopia is the UIC speaking of 'bringing their Somalian brothers back into Somalia' in effect EXPANDING Somalia to include regions of Ethiopia and Kenya where ethnic Somalians live. See.....Now that UIC is speaking of a land grab and taking parts of Ethiopia. (Ogaden region, if you look at a map of Ethiopia/Somalia, UIC wants to cut off the entire horn) Ethiopia has also gone to war over this twice and has been an issue since 1960's. UIC would be breaking a treaty signed in the late 80's by making such a move.
The icing on the cake would be when the UIC declared "Jihad" on Ethiopia, using islam as their tool and the people of Somalia as tools as they attempt to change the scope of the entire issue. There are also Ethnic issues between Ethio/Somali that are beyond the scope of the thread.

In a conventional war UIC would get their assses handed to them. OTOH UIC has women fighters fresh of the streets and also child recruits that are 13,14,15 etc.
Well the wost can happen in 2 days seeing that UIC has given Ethiopia 7 days - 5 days ago. "Ethiopia also is telling some Somalis to come to their side of the border.

This could and probably will destabilize the entire horn of Africa. Ethiopia is Bush's ally in the war on terror. Of course the west will back Ethiopia. The west doesn't want to see an Islamic State (at least a NEW one) regardless of how successful it is. And in any case the whole "Jihad against Ethiopia" is bogus - In 615 Muhammed's wife and cousin sought refuge at Axum (Ethiopia) with a number of his followers under the protection of Negus Armah. The Prophet himself instructed his followers to respect and protect Ethiopians.

edit: cherry on the icing: Both Eritrea and UIC have been training/supplying Ethiopian rebel factions within Ethiopia and across the border.

I knew Ethiopia would beat these dudes asses but i thought it would take like 3 weeks.
Also for the record, Americans are NOT in Somalia, they are training some Ethiopians inside Ethiopia. This is somewhat of a proxy war but see the above quote, Ethiopia has its reasons. Although America supports the Ethiopians we will not have to worry about the suicide bombers that have been called to wage jihad against Addis Ababa (Populous Ethiopian Capitol)
Also i have been laid off from my job and i was planning on going out there to see my wife. Yeah, no trip now. Was just a bout to pull the trigger on a ticket too. kinda sux but what can you do, tell people to lay low. On a good note it was noted: At Benadir hospital in Mogadishu, a crowd of women pushed at the gates to see wounded sons and husbands. Some women threw stones at the Islamist commanders and shouted, ?Fight your own holy war!? So at least some people get the picture.

-The UIC is stupid and should have been content on the hand they held and just controlled Mogadishu.
-Ethiopia should NOT go into Mogadishu........but they will, they are only 30km away.
-Ethiopia should suspend attacks and call for UIC to come to the bargaining table.
-Once and when suicide attacks start in Addis Ababa there will be little Ethiopia can do to make them stop. Even after they leave Somalia they will have them for a long long time.
 
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Ethiopia has an airforce? Maybe they should sell some of those jets and feed their population rather than beg people on tv and the UN to feed them.

That mass starvation happened because of droughts of 1984-1985. That was over 20 years ago. Ethiopia has kept that stigma and US agencies are still playing those same videos today to get money out of you. If you care about starving Ethiopians contribute to charity, Boycott Starbucks, or write your congressman about about the person responsible. This is the man behind the saying: "When you send food to Africa it i will just rot in a storehouse."
 
Troops Enter Mogadishu; Refugees Drown

Somali government troops backed by Ethiopian forces rolled into Mogadishu without firing a shot Thursday, a striking gain in its bid to recapture the country from an Islamic movement that had once seemed nearly invincible.

Off the coast, Yemeni authorities opened fire on boats filled with refugees fleeing the fighting, and at least 17 people drowned in the Gulf of Aden when one vessels capsized, the United Nations refugee agency said Thursday. About 140 people were missing, the Geneva-based agency said.

Hours before the troops entered the capital, the Islamic militants fled Mogadishu, pledging to make a last stand in southern Somalia.

"We are in Mogadishu," Prime Minister Mohamed Ali Gedi said after flying from the government's temporary base in western Somalia and meeting with local clan leaders to discuss the handover of the city. "We are coordinating our forces to take control of Mogadishu."

The Islamic movement took control of Mogadishu six months ago and then advanced across most of southern Somalia, often without fighting. Ethiopian troops then went on the attack in support of the U.N.-backed government last week in attempt to push the Islamists out of power.

The confrontation in the Gulf of Aden took place late Wednesday, when four boats smuggling 515 people were spotted by Yemeni authorities, the UNHCR said. The authorities opened fire, causing two of the boats to try to escape, the agency said. Yemeni authorities were searching for survivors, the UNHCR said.

Experts had feared the conflict could engulf the already volatile Horn of Africa. A recent U.N. report said 10 countries have been illegally supplying arms and equipment to both sides of the conflict and using Somalia as a proxy battlefield.

The conflict has also drawn concern in the United States, which accused the Islamists of harboring al-Qaida terrorists. An insurgent group linked to al-Qaida in Iraq urged Muslims on Thursday to support the Islamists in Somalia "financially, with weapons and men and with prayers."

The prime minister was welcomed to the town of Afgoye on the outskirts of Mogadishu by dozens of clan leaders from the capital and hundreds of government and Ethiopian troops. The clan leaders pledged to the help collect weapons from the remaining militiamen in the capital, government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told The Associated Press.

... Read rest in link ...

 
Originally posted by: beyoku
[If you care about starving Ethiopians contribute to charity, Boycott Starbucks, or write your congressman about about the person responsible. This is the man behind the saying: "When you send food to Africa it i will just rot in a storehouse."

Boycott Starbucks? So you bought into that hollyweird inspired non-sense?

Look, if Starbucks buying coffee from them was exploitation then other farmers in the area would not be trying to get with the program. Farmers cannot just exploit themselves, their workers, or their land, to get Starbuck's business. Starbucks is one of only a few coffee distributors who voluntarily agreed to a set of standards to insure that exploitation is reduced if not eliminated. They also will only buy from farmers who practice sustainable farming methods.

But I know, its far better to rant against a big corporation because it makes you feel as if you did something. Heaven forbid you do any research and list the best organizations to use when donating to African charities. Seeds for Africa, African Medical and Research Foundation, and Every Child ministries.
 
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: beyoku
[If you care about starving Ethiopians contribute to charity, Boycott Starbucks, or write your congressman about about the person responsible. This is the man behind the saying: "When you send food to Africa it i will just rot in a storehouse."

Boycott Starbucks? So you bought into that hollyweird inspired non-sense?

Look, if Starbucks buying coffee from them was exploitation then other farmers in the area would not be trying to get with the program. Farmers cannot just exploit themselves, their workers, or their land, to get Starbuck's business. Starbucks is one of only a few coffee distributors who voluntarily agreed to a set of standards to insure that exploitation is reduced if not eliminated. They also will only buy from farmers who practice sustainable farming methods.

But I know, its far better to rant against a big corporation because it makes you feel as if you did something. Heaven forbid you do any research and list the best organizations to use when donating to African charities. Seeds for Africa, African Medical and Research Foundation, and Every Child ministries.

Its far from nonsense. I have been to Ethiopia and seen for myself. I dont know what "hollyweird" stuff you are talking about, what i was speaking of is Starbucks VS Ethiopia regarding the Trademark issue with names of Ethiopian Beans, some being based on towns in Ethiopia where they are grown. This is a very real issue. And a big deal for Ethiopia because 90% of their export and more than half their GDP is Coffee. I dont have the time to write pages on all the reasons and take you through Charity or globalization 101. I can tell you that some people will come to the discussion on different levels, I have family and a wife in Ethiopia so i follow their politics, i come to the discussion on a different level. There is no "best organization" they all have different aims and Just about all of the large ones are good. Anyone that "wants" to contribute to charity knows they have to research themselves, most of them already have. Yes i know i have "Done something" there is no fact about it. I pay a few thousand dollars a year for some kids education there.- direct contribution. And i continue to "do things." What do you do?
 
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