Islamabad Protests

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
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People have risen up. They are being squatted like flies. Ashamed for being Pakistani for the first time in my life. Army nowhere to bee seen. Many dead. Hundreds injured.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/754861/i...-khawaja-asif/



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Today is the 9th day of massive protests lead by Imran Khan, and another by Dr. Taherul Qadri. You can read this for some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadi_March and http://online.wsj.com/articles/pakistan-protest-leader-lashes-out-at-u-s-1408641901

I was upset at the USA reaction to the crisis:

The State Department deputy spokesperson Marie Harf said that the United States government "[was] carefully monitoring the demonstrations in Islamabad". She added that the US government "urge all sides to refrain from violence, exercise restraint, and respect the rule of law" with "all parties [working] together to resolve their differences through peaceful dialogue in a way that strengthens Pakistan’s democracy".[84] In a later press briefing, Harf said that "Nawaz Sharif was elected and is prime minister (period). There is a government that was elected in place. So while we’ve called on all sides to refrain from violence, we are monitoring the situation, but we will continue working with the Pakistanis". She reiterated that "there’s a path forward... that’s peaceful. We know there’s a lot of space for political dialogue, but it has to remain peaceful".[85]


Almost 100,000 people have marched to the parliament demanding the resignation of the Prime Minister for rigging. What would Americans do?

1) Dr Taher ul Qadri boycotted the elections and said without electoral reforms, any elections would be a farce.

2) Imran Khan contested the election and won about 10% of all seats despite getting 2nd most votes.

3) He alleges rigging. Personally, I witnessed massive rigging in my constituencies. International organizations said the elections were "largely free and fair." The chief election commissioner admitted that there was massive rigging but it was out of his hands. He later resigned. Even the interior minister admitted about 70000 votes could not be verified in each constituency.

4) It's been more than a year since the elections. Imran Khan went to the parliament for a recount in 4 (out of 372) constituencies. The government largely ignored his demands. The judiciary did not do much either.

5) IK and Qadri said 1 million would march. They could get only about 20,000 - 100,000 depending on which news channel you watch.

6) All status-quo parties (all other parties in parliament) support the PM and said calling for his resignation is "unconstitutional." But some parties are playing the waiting game and some issuing statements that the PM should resign to save democracy.

7) Imran Khan and Qadri says that Pakistanis have become enslaved by the two ruling parties.

8) 22 political workers from Dr. Qadri's party , including women and children were killed last month from blind firing by police. Later, a Sessions court ruled that an FIR should be lodged against 12 individuals from the ruling party including the Prime Minister and his brother, Punjab's chief minister. No FIR has been registered.

9) Many important posts in the Govt. have been alloted to the the Sharif family. People say the are corrupt to the core.

10) Imran/Qadri won't back down from their demand of the PM's resignation.

11) The police chief of Islamabad refused to use tear gas and batons on the protestors after govt. orders. He instead asked for a written order. He was later fired.

12) The army is staying out for the most part apart from calling for the issue to be resolved ASAP. They were called into the define the "red zone" of the capital but they refused to face the protestors. Instead they are now protecting government buildings--not the govt.

What would you do if you do? If 70000 votes could not be verified in each district, and if the president was a murder suspect, would you accept election results? The US state department does not support democracy. They only support puppets: according to Wikileaks, Imran Khan was the only leader that the USA had no influence upon.
 
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The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Give power to mushraf.

His biggest mistake was signing an NRO that forgave all corrupt politicians, paving their way back to looting. I'd rather have a democratic government that actually devolves power to the people. Ironically, we were more democratic with elected local governments with Musharraf than now.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,046
33,092
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The State Dept basically said "Meh...internal Pakistani politics and feuds aren't our problem. You people deal with your own shit."

We really don't need to go poking our noses into yet more internal bullshit in this region. Our hands are quite full as is thanks.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,445
7,506
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Sounds like your country can either accept the results or tear itself apart. I appreciate that neither option is good. My condolences for the suffering that is likely to follow such conflict.

If that was us? I don't know. I guess that we are fully capable of tearing ourselves apart. Yet we had a contested election in 2000. Bush VS Gore. We ended that on fairly civil terms.

I'm afraid there's really nothing we can do to help Pakistan. Still quite angry at them for harboring Osama Bin Laden, and torturing the good doctor who helped us. Then turning over our technology to China. Let us know when it's time to secure your nukes. United States might help with that.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
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The State Dept basically said "Meh...internal Pakistani politics and feuds aren't our problem. You people deal with your own shit."

We really don't need to go poking our noses into yet more internal bullshit in this region. Our hands are quite full as is thanks.

Pretty much this. Pakistan is a shithole that most likely will never improve.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,391
31
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The US perspective isn't some shining ideal. We're after our own interests. We'll make excuses to back whatever is pragmatic to us. We may not go to any lengths, but don't question that we're biased and that the costs relating to the obligations of any belief haven't been weighed against the benefits.

Ukraine overthrew their elected government and we were for it because their old government was pro-Russia and their new one is pro-West.
Pakistan? I doubt we have a reason to care. And if there was internal corruption, what leverage do we have anyway? For Ukraine we have economic leverage against Russia acting as an external agent, but internally the Ukrainian people had to act because we don't have internal leverage, just as we didn't have the leverage to make the people of Crimea vote to stay with Ukraine.

As long at the current government isn't hostile to us and any new government doesn't look to change the status quo, we don't really have reason to care what goes on.
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,191
3
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Why do you care about the Americans' opinion so much? Are you not capable of running your own country?

Unless the Pakistani public can rise up against their Army which controls everything in the country, nothing can be done.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
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People have risen up. They are being squatted like flies...f/
BwTy1orCQAE6mcq.jpg


RT
Tear gas, injuries reported as thousand demand Pakistan PM resign
Thousands of demonstrators, led by former cricket hero Imran Khan and moderate cleric Tahir ul-Qad, have been camped outside the parliament for more than two weeks. They accuse Sharif of huge electoral fraud in parliamentary elections last year....

Sounds like a bad scene...

Stay safe!

Uno
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Sounds like your country can either accept the results or tear itself apart. I appreciate that neither option is good. My condolences for the suffering that is likely to follow such conflict.

If that was us? I don't know. I guess that we are fully capable of tearing ourselves apart. Yet we had a contested election in 2000. Bush VS Gore. We ended that on fairly civil terms.

I'm afraid there's really nothing we can do to help Pakistan. Still quite angry at them for harboring Osama Bin Laden, and torturing the good doctor who helped us. Then turning over our technology to China. Let us know when it's time to secure your nukes. United States might help with that.

+1
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
People have risen up. They are being squatted like flies. Ashamed for being Pakistani for the first time in my life. Army nowhere to bee seen. Many dead. Hundreds injured.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/754861/...ble-for-model-town-tragedy-says-khawaja-asif/

This word should be changed to Swatted.

Anyway, it was never easy for American's to have what they have now.

There was much blood shed in the time of our forefathers and also during a civil war in this country to detach from the English, keep freedom and keep a fair lawful and balanced process concerning democratic elections. To this day there is a huge power struggle between the elite and their corporations and the middle class and poor.

We are seeing our rights being eroded everyday and we really have to push hard to try and keep them. American's have become a bit apathetic in this ordeal.

Your country, sadly will have to go through a major civil war with the hopes that the good side wins and a fair, balanced processed can be implemented too.

I think at this point no country in the world can really do much for you and your people, you have to do it for yourselves. America and other countries will watch to make sure the nuclear warheads there don't become a threat to them. If it becomes a threat you can bet that American's and other countries will step in to stop that and probably disarm the nukes.

I am sure that at some point if major genocide starts happening then you will see aid given in the same form as we have done in other countries to try and help. But as far as anything else I am not sure American's want to get involved in another middle east war.

We have literally worn ourselves thin with being spread out in other countries.

I am really sorry that you and your people are suffering and that so many are being killed.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
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I was upset at the USA reaction to the crisis:

And, what exactly did you expect us to do? March in and fix everything for you?

Or, unit Pakistan, by being an occupying force for your people to shoot at our soldiers?

You've got our cash, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Pakistan,.. no way in hell do you deserve our blood.

The US state department does not support democracy. They only support puppets: according to Wikileaks, Imran Khan was the only leader that the USA had no influence upon.

Oh, the US is the cause of your country's problems,... now I see what this is all about.

:rolleyes:
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,382
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World will consider helping you if you turn over all your nukes and completely dismantle your ability to make more, deal?
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
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0
World will consider helping you if you turn over all your nukes and completely dismantle your ability to make more, deal?

They can also promise to never hide a mass murderer agian; http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistani-report-details-bin-ladens-life-hiding-v19361109

In testimony showing how close the mastermind came to authorities who were supposed to be looking for him, "Maryam" — the wife of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides — recalled how his car was stopped by Pakistani police in the Swat region.

So,.. why should the US do anything??
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
It looks like martial law might by imposed by tonight. Terrible scenes. There are reports that the number of dead are being incorrectly reported. There are also reports that expired year gas was used. It is impossible to confirm in this fog of war. However, the police has been unable to disperse all protesters. Some police officers have refused to 'torture women and children' and have resigned.

It's impossible to tell what the army has planned. But they have an emergency corps commander in an hour. They might support the government but lose massive public support. The middle ground would be to impose martial law in the capital and force the politicians to work out a solution. The other extreme would by military rule.

The current government h as lost all moral legitimacy. The PM and some of his ministers are now officially murder suspects. The PM lied in the Parliament on Thursday about asking the army's help. And now this. This might be their version of political martyrdom-- that the army takeover. This was the same PM musharraf overthrew in 1999. The nation regrets he wasn't hanged. He might not be so lucky this time though.

What is confirmed is that anti government and neutral media personnel have been beaten up by the police. Pro gov media buildings have been attacked by the mob. Some policemen are allegedly ruling party assassins in uniform. The protesers show no sign of retreat.

Politicians are yet to takes sides with some parties playing a double game. The liberal elite are blaming the protesters. The middle class are angry at the government and yet at the same time divided over whether the professor's are to be blamed or not.

Sad day.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,445
7,506
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LOL @ OP expecting people to care about this.

September 11th made some of us care deeply what happens in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

You should care because a nuclear nation is descending into Anarchy. Nukes might be open season on the black market just as ISIS is looking to acquire a trump card. The possibility of us losing millions of lives from what happens in Pakistan is real, however remote.

This is why I oppose nuclear proliferation and would do much against Iran in that regard. Though I'm sure some of us would act surprised if a greater tragedy happens, they'd only be doing it out of ignorance. The world should pay closer attention to these developments.