TheArabian
Senior member
FYI: less than 20% of Muslims are Arabs....
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Islam, what the West needs to know
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imported_dna
Golden Member
If, as the guy in the C-SPAN show said, Islam dictates each and every little thing about government and daily-life, then it seems to me that there is a very little chance of separating "church & state". Perhaps the antidote is free flow of information, such as unrestricted access to the internet, so that people could get an alternative point of view; Saudi Arabia restricts access to the net, while also brainwashing.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
Its called the Quran.
imported_dna
Golden Member
Nah, that was superseded by Harry Potter. :laugh:
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
The Torah and Injeel (New testament) are important scriptures in Islam aswell. The Quran mentions them numerous times.
alejandroAT
Senior member
mormons are christian and they can shag as many women as they want.
mormons are also americans. does that mean americans are spreading their religion by baby booming?
I am yet to meet a muslim that does not practice monogamy. Surely there are a lot that dont. But thats a social thing not a religion thing. If i was to take christian holy books word for word i would believe that god was a truelly nasty being indeed.
imported_dna
Golden Member
Can? Unlikely..... I'm pretty sure the Mormons have changed their attitude towards polygamy -- I recall seeing a show about the origins of the Mormons, and how the founder claimed that divine message told him to stop the practice. Other than that, you should remember that the US does not allow polygamy by law.
You might be surprised to know that even Judaism allows for more than one wife, but I think that Israel also has laws against polygamy.
Anyway, allowing for polygamy is still different than practicing it. And multiple wives or not, muslims are still https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html">shooting babies</a> like there is no tomorrow.
EDIT: perhaps I should not that to my knowledge Judaism allows it under special circumstances, such as the wife unable to bear children.
alejandroAT
Senior member
Dna, although i do appreciate to the max your effort to back up everything you say with sources i have to stress here that birth rate is directly related to level of education and not to religion. Islam is still going through its middle ages my friend. The whole world is not moving in western time and thats just something we have to live with and accept. You can be certain that when women rights are established in the islamic world, the birth rate will drop just like it did in the western world and then the whole world will colapse because there wont be enough young ppl to support the old. Greece is currently heading that way and pensions are not enough to support even a desent living. If anything, we in the western world should be making more babies, not accusing the others of having too many.
imported_dna
Golden Member
I know that birth rate is related to the level of education, but I think that Islamic countries keep their people stupid, and what can you expect when you're to pray 5 times a day, and many people memorize the Koran since it gives them some prestige.
A while a go I read in National Geographic this article, which talks about how the majority of students graduate with a degree in theology, and how there are more foreign workers than the population.
Here's a random quote I picked up somewhere:
You can't have a country full of religion specialists.
Anyway, watch the Wafa Sultan movies at MemriTV (do a keyword search), and you'll see my point.
A while a go I read in National Geographic this article, which talks about how the majority of students graduate with a degree in theology, and how there are more foreign workers than the population.
Here's a random quote I picked up somewhere:
You can't have a country full of religion specialists.
Anyway, watch the Wafa Sultan movies at MemriTV (do a keyword search), and you'll see my point.
alejandroAT
Senior member
i agree with you. My country is strongly religious and orthodox christianity is actually an obligatory course in schools. People of other religions are of course not required to attend these classes. But the whole concept is wrong. Efforts to rid the educational system of this plague have failed so far since the church goes balistic whenever the subject is raised by politicians. Unfortunately the church has a strong hold on people and so the state is very reluctunt to tread on this territory. So what is the result? ALL students have a knowledge of christian theology even before going to university!!!!
I truelly believe that islamic countries keep their people stupid. Also , the western world wants islamic countries to be kept stupid. Especially those that have a lot of natural resources. You may also notice that western countries are starting to adopt this technique for themsleves. University education is getting more and more expensive (in the US i hear it is especially expensive) and television sets are getting cheaper and cheaper. Even poor homes now have more than 1 television sets of various sizes. They even install them in cars these days. The average western citizen IS getting stupider every day and it is time we wake up and see it and start critisising ourselves and our countries for what they do to the middle east.
I truelly believe that islamic countries keep their people stupid. Also , the western world wants islamic countries to be kept stupid. Especially those that have a lot of natural resources. You may also notice that western countries are starting to adopt this technique for themsleves. University education is getting more and more expensive (in the US i hear it is especially expensive) and television sets are getting cheaper and cheaper. Even poor homes now have more than 1 television sets of various sizes. They even install them in cars these days. The average western citizen IS getting stupider every day and it is time we wake up and see it and start critisising ourselves and our countries for what they do to the middle east.
Noobtastic
Banned
Wrong. There are several different islamic sects that follow different islamic scripture.
Shia muslims, the 2nd largest muslim group in the world with almost 300 million members follow the radical hadith scripture. They encorporate Shariah Law (A.K.A Islamic Law) into their culture.
Muslims, are more or less an easier classification. People can't seem to comprehend the fact that there are 4 muslim groups, with different politicial ties and believes.
Countries who use Islamic Law as their constitution:
*Iran
*Saudi Arabia
Countries with elements of Shariah Law
*Pakistan
*Iraq - many villages follow Shariah Law
*India - Civil Law
*Indonesia
*Bangladesh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
Educate yourself before forming an opinion.
I'm 14, for those who are older you should know this by now.
You seem convinced that Islam is easy!! well thats not true. I am a Muslim and it think that it is harder than other religions that is why many prefer Christianity over Islam. we pray FIVE times a day one of them at 5 AM we have to know about everything how to dress, what to dress, what to say before eating, listening to Imams, pay Zakah, read Quran, learn how to deal with people..these are only a few!! everyone of them is split into many parts.what!? You said it is EASY??
The Mailman
Senior member
i agree. we are fighting the muslims here. they are the enemies.
as much as they say they are a peace loving people, its just rubbish.
i went to a highschool which was majority arabs. ALL of the muslims, thats including honor roll intelligent nice guys...ALL of them hated Jews and wanted them dead. All of them belived we were pigs. All of them more or less considered us the enemy (they worded it nicely though, lol)
as much as they say they are a peace loving people, its just rubbish.
i went to a highschool which was majority arabs. ALL of the muslims, thats including honor roll intelligent nice guys...ALL of them hated Jews and wanted them dead. All of them belived we were pigs. All of them more or less considered us the enemy (they worded it nicely though, lol)
1prophet
Diamond Member
Yet when one draws cartoons about their religion they all become one
Never mind they were published before in Egypt 5 months prior without any outcry but that is for another topic
There is a conflict today between two religions, and no christianity and judaism is not one of them. The two religions are radical Islamists and Western secular, liberalism, and democracy (who for some reason are radical Islams greatest apologists even though they cut off their nose to spite their face by doing so)
The Father of radical Islam, Sayyid Qutb, and how he rejected the Western culture and lifestyle during a far more conservative time in the United States.
And if you would rather see a video on it here you go and how the neocons came into it, The Power of Nightmares
But don't take the West's words for it, take the time to listen to what this Syrian woman, Wafa Sultan, has to say about it
And here is one of the most powerful Islamic clerics in the largest muslim country, too powerful to be kept in jail over the Bali Bombings 😉, and what he has too say about secularism and liberalism, and how he likes being called radical:Q
Unlike the Pat Robertson's and the Jerry Falwell's who care more about how they are perceived than what they believe the radical Islamists have no such weakness.
All they need to do is issue a fatwah or religious decree and you better go into hiding like Salman Rushdie or pay the consequences like Theo van Gogh,or better yet take you and your whole family out like they did in New Jersey in the good old USA, and unless more muslims like this man Mubin Shaikh take charge and root out the radicals the animosity between the West and Islam will only get worse.
Noobtastic
Banned
Shia muslims are the 2nd largest muslim group in the world, and almost the 1st biggest in the Middle East.
The majority represents everybody. Irony in this is, fundamentalist Christians are the minority in the Christian spectrum. It's the exact opposite in the muslim world.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
This thread is a pinnacle of darkness. Nobody seems to know what they talk of. A culture is better learnt when you truly explore it and evaluate it. Most people here just listen to bias opinions and adopt them as their code of law. Islam has a history of 1400 years. To explore, study and understand history as well islamic law and literature is imprerative before one just starts blasting everything it stands for.
Hitler was a christian
Not all christians are Hitlers
Osama Bin Laden was/is a Muslim
Not all muslims are Osama bin Ladens
Lets talk about some other organization with a strong religious background. Hezbollah and Kashmiri groups. While Hezbollah's tactics may not be right, they are not terrorists IMO. They defy everything AlQaeeda stands for. Its a fact that enlightened souls can see that Israel is the real aggressor here. Give me one reason why America should be able fund Israel massacres and Iran should not be able fund Hezbollah.
A recent survey showed that most British muslims would rather live under Islamic law rather than a democracy. That makes America's claims of freedom baseless. Since when can only democratic countries progress? Its also another obvious fact that countries which have been occupied in the last half a decade and then persecuted for their form of government ny America and Europe will not advance much. Is the US still a prosperous free country after 9/11? Phone tappings, tortures, racial profiling all point to the fact that America is living in fear. That fear is a bi-product of their own stupidity added with the flavour of a few power hungry ambitious men calling themselves true representatives of Islam. Since the adent of Islam, many stood calling themelves the rightful heirs to the Caliphate. Most were murdered. OBL's claim would be similar.
Three days ago in Pakistan, Akber Bugti, Bolochistan's Insurgent Leader who claimed to be an atheist was killed. He stopped the masses from education and tribal areas of Balochistan were a mini Talibanistan. That negates the illogical statement that only muslims have stopped from education.
I beleive Islam has been hijacked by some poliical leaders over the world as a means to rule the masses. In Pakistan recently, the Islamic parties and the government have had a conflict of Shariah laws. If the government passes a shariah law, the Islamic parties condemn it and vice versa. They have made Islam into a tool. Alqaeeda is doing the same thing. America's ego does not help much. Instead of realizing the root cause of the problem they are declaring war on an entire religion which comprises of multiple faiths. It must realize that if it does get drawn into a world wide conflict, a world war 3 would result in the total destruction of the world.
Bush is holding the world at ransom for a few barrels of oil. He deserves to be tried for war crimes as much as hitler did. Bush would have made a bad labourer let alone a president.
Hitler was a christian
Not all christians are Hitlers
Osama Bin Laden was/is a Muslim
Not all muslims are Osama bin Ladens
Lets talk about some other organization with a strong religious background. Hezbollah and Kashmiri groups. While Hezbollah's tactics may not be right, they are not terrorists IMO. They defy everything AlQaeeda stands for. Its a fact that enlightened souls can see that Israel is the real aggressor here. Give me one reason why America should be able fund Israel massacres and Iran should not be able fund Hezbollah.
A recent survey showed that most British muslims would rather live under Islamic law rather than a democracy. That makes America's claims of freedom baseless. Since when can only democratic countries progress? Its also another obvious fact that countries which have been occupied in the last half a decade and then persecuted for their form of government ny America and Europe will not advance much. Is the US still a prosperous free country after 9/11? Phone tappings, tortures, racial profiling all point to the fact that America is living in fear. That fear is a bi-product of their own stupidity added with the flavour of a few power hungry ambitious men calling themselves true representatives of Islam. Since the adent of Islam, many stood calling themelves the rightful heirs to the Caliphate. Most were murdered. OBL's claim would be similar.
Three days ago in Pakistan, Akber Bugti, Bolochistan's Insurgent Leader who claimed to be an atheist was killed. He stopped the masses from education and tribal areas of Balochistan were a mini Talibanistan. That negates the illogical statement that only muslims have stopped from education.
I beleive Islam has been hijacked by some poliical leaders over the world as a means to rule the masses. In Pakistan recently, the Islamic parties and the government have had a conflict of Shariah laws. If the government passes a shariah law, the Islamic parties condemn it and vice versa. They have made Islam into a tool. Alqaeeda is doing the same thing. America's ego does not help much. Instead of realizing the root cause of the problem they are declaring war on an entire religion which comprises of multiple faiths. It must realize that if it does get drawn into a world wide conflict, a world war 3 would result in the total destruction of the world.
Bush is holding the world at ransom for a few barrels of oil. He deserves to be tried for war crimes as much as hitler did. Bush would have made a bad labourer let alone a president.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
Yes. Islam is very easy. And you proved exactly my point.
You have to pray five times a day. There's no ambiguity or need to deliberate involved. Like you stated, five times a day? Whoever does that must be dedicated to his faith. Hence the near instant payoff in respect.
You need to know how to dress. Which is laid out in exacting detail for you. Is reading the clear-cut rules hard? Not likely...but the fact that you follow these simple rules affords you instant respect.
What to dress. Same thing. Easy to do, instant respect if you do it.
What to say before eating. Same thing. Easy to do, instant respect if you do it.
Listening to imams. I seem to recall that Muslims aren't really actually supposed to do this - a Muslim's temple is in his heart and mind, and the Koran is the word of God - what is an imam going to do for you? Regardless, going to a mosque to sit and listen: Easy to do, instant respect if you do it.
Paying Zakah. Same thing. Easy to do, instant respect if you do it.
Follow the simple rules and you're an instant star disciple. What part of this did I get wrong?
everything will earn you instant respect!! but the problem is who can do it? there are millions of Muslims who do not pray these days because they think it is hard..instant respect? what if they don't even pray??
listening to Imams requires much more time than what you think and we have to do it in order to learn more about our religion..i can give you at the moment 10 books every book is 1000 pages..go on read them..is this by any mean easy?? sometimes you will find different talks about the same topic from one book to the other and you wouldnt know what to do!!? you will have to ask Imams for the best of the 2 opinions.
just visit an Arabic land and compare the prayers and non-prayers then come back and tell me the ratio..EaSy!?
imported_dna
Golden Member
He's still a muslim, as much as Hitler was a Christian.
What massacres? Did Israel go and indiscriminately kill people?
Well, they have the freedom to leave, don't they? You want Islamic law, then go to the Middle East, and don't have presumptions when you are only 3% of the population, and came as an immigirant. It is you who have to conform to the country's laws and culture and not the other way around.
Due to the simple fact that there is no supreme leader that cannot be criticized a la khameni in Iran; everyone is subject to scrutiny and criticism and may be replaced. A democracy/republic gives you the tools to counter corruption on the highest level of government, while I have yet to see the equivalent in Islamic countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia)
There is nothing wrong with racial profiling: if the most likely person to blow up a plane is a Middle Eastern-looking fella, then there is no need to strip-search every Eskimos boarding the plane.
I don't think that people are "living in fear", and particularly not due to the reasons you list; fear is from Islamist. As for the fact that Bush does tend to play on fear, well, that's a whole different discussion.
Well, that's your house to clean.
Fine, that's obvious; then why does the rest of the world has to suffer because of that?
Yeah, because Bush ordered the execution of Million of Muslims, right?
Please, have some respect for our intelligence. Even if we look at Iraq, the number of deaths due to US troops is miniscule compared to the number of people Saddam executed, and still tiny compared to the number murdered in the secterian violence. Unless you think that is also the US's fault, and that Zionist bombed the Shia mosque (like al-Sadr said).
Also, those few barrels of oil bring a lot of wealth to the region; wether that welth is misspent is a different story, and hardly the fault of the West.
imported_dna
Golden Member
All this time consumed by practicing religion leaves you less free time to study history, science, etc... you are also less likely to read criticism of your religion.
At the end of the day, you are further in the grip of your Imam, cleric, whoever....
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