ISIS burns Jordanian Pilot alive

[Genx87]

Anybody heard about the correlation between what is happening in the world now and what happened back in the 30's with Hiltler? How the European countries caved in and let him take countries so they did not "ruffle" any feathers. Somebody will surely correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Hitler's goal to create a world dominated by Aryans? The Jews, Catholics and basically anybody not ARYAN were eliminated. England finally got rid of Chamberlain and Churchill was on the scene. Consequently England entered the war. Hilter screwed up when he attack Russia. Anyway, same pattern with a different set of idiots with a lot more technology at their disposal. If you are not with them or for them, consider yourself dead....

And now look at all the PR ISIS is getting...this stuff is plastered all over the news agencies and the internet. Think about all the low life scum bags laying around the world itching to do something "wild". Makes for a great recruiting film. Heard today on the news their numbers grow by 1,000 per month. Sometimes I wonder how Jesus sees this????? There were over 40 people murdered in the USA today (average). Is this killing, in his eyes, any different than the other 40 that were murdered? Hell, where is the news to cover the other victims? Definitely have a different set of standards and yes that was "lower than scum" way of executing the pilot.


Personally I look at it like this simply because of my situation and how it has a bearing on the way I perceive life...I have cancer, do my doctors not want to identify it? Are they gonna sit around and whisper PC fairytales? Is there a goal?


no

they identify it
they implement a strategy
and they hit it hard and quick, killing it

Just my gut feeling, but I think this whole middle east thing is gonna be around for a while especially with Iran sticking up its ugly head.

I would say the level of crazy and evil is about at its height since WWII. These guys want to create an ideologically and religious pure state. Including wiping out minority Islamic sects. Which is why Iran has sent special forces to fight them.

 

[Genx87]

Once again I pull from the archives of history...look at Germany, allied occupation. Japan, as well as Korea we had a occupation force. When we left Iraq we could of left an occupation force but BO wanted parliamentary procedure (he knew Iraq could not and would not allow it at that time) in place. Where do you think ISIS grew from? The bowels of Northern Iraq and Eastern Syria would be a starting point.

Case in point.....this could of been contained.

Eh Bush negotiated the withdrawl of troops from Iraq. Obama just followed that treaty. Although Obama did try to keep us there. But the Iraqis had a stipulation our servicemen were to be tried in Iraqi courts if they committed a crime. That wasn't happening.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I agree it would take complete idiocy by the international community and would never happen because thankfully some of the people in this thread who are advocating isolationism for an indeterminate amount of time, are NOT world leaders.

Few world leaders not named Putin actually like war. Obama definitely does not, and even he grudgingly saw the light when it became clear that he could not keep hiding his head in the sand. He couched it as a humanitarian mission against Yezidi genocide at Shingal at first, but I think he knew even back then that there would be mission creep.

Fix it.

 

[bshole]

Jordan has responded by executing two jihadis.


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Secu...ct-of-retaliation-for-pilot-s-gruesome-murder

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Jordan has responded by executing two jihadis.


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Secu...ct-of-retaliation-for-pilot-s-gruesome-murder

The UAE is effectively out of the coalition. Jordanians are hopping mad and I expect they will be less inclined to engage in what the west considers "civilized" war. What no one knows is how the Jordanians will react after they extract revenge. They could be inclined to step up, but they very well may reconsider participation in "Obama's War". If that happens and enough pressure is placed on the government of Jordan then the coalition falls apart. The Saudi's aren't going to replace the Jordanians and the Kurds have their hands full. At that point it will be interesting to see how we respond, because Obama won't lose face and if that means we redefine reality so that a hundred thousand fighting troops aren't engaged in combat even if under fire then that may be the case and we'll have our chance to "stabilize Iraq" with a "this isn't a war" war. The most likely result is more speeches about how awful ISIS is and the status quo continues until Hillary the Neocon gets in office.

 

[trenchfoot]

I would say the level of crazy and evil is about at its height since WWII. These guys want to create an ideologically and religious pure state. Including wiping out minority Islamic sects. Which is why Iran has sent special forces to fight them.

Sounds contrarily crazy stupid to murder and execute innocents in order to create a specific brand (denomination) of a "perfect" religious Islamic State that espouses peace as one of its main tenets. It's like the middle age era Popes' crusades all over again (with the papal promise of forgiving all sins committed in the act of crusading)......in reverse. Fighting for the very survival of Islam when there is no threat (that I can think of) makes no sense.

Would be nice to hear from their leadership why they need to chop off heads and burn folks to death to create a place that truly practices the aspects of Islam in the present day world.

I guess there is some kind of threat level trigger point or line that ISIS needs to cross that will unleash an overwhelming coordinated response from like-minded nations whereby all other agendas and priorities would be superseded in order to quell a possible major threat that ISIS may create in the near future.

 

[blastingcap]

Sounds contrarily crazy stupid to murder and execute innocents in order to create a specific brand (denomination) of a "perfect" religious Islamic State that espouses peace as one of its main tenets. It's like the middle age era Popes' crusades all over again (with the papal promise of forgiving all sins committed in the act of crusading)......in reverse. Fighting for the very survival of Islam when there is no threat (that I can think of) makes no sense.

Would be nice to hear from their leadership why they need to chop off heads and burn folks to death to create a place that truly practices the aspects of Islam in the present day world.

I guess there is some kind of threat level trigger point or line that ISIS needs to cross that will unleash an overwhelming coordinated response from like-minded nations whereby all other agendas and priorities would be superseded in order to quell a possible major threat that ISIS may create in the near future.

This is Iran's war. They propped up an unpopular and brutal dictator in Assad that has dragged out the civil war far longer than many anticipated. They funded Hezbollah to attack Daesh. They strongly supported corrupt and abusive Shiite lader Maliki until the international pressure was too much and they grudgingly replaced him with yet another Shia lackey, but one with a fresh face that would be less objectionable to non-Shia.

All of this led to Sunni resentment that led to Daesh.

And Iran funds terrorist Shia militias that rob the regular Iraqi army of manpower and further brutalize Sunnis and harden resentment against them and feed into AQ/Daesh recruitment.

Daesh incursions onto Iranian soil have had some success but there hasn't been much open warfare between Iran's regular army yet. Which is too bad. I wouldn't mind if Iran and Daesh destroyed each other and led to regime change in Iran and Syria.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sounds contrarily crazy stupid to murder and execute innocents in order to create a specific brand (denomination) of a "perfect" religious Islamic State that espouses peace as one of its main tenets. It's like the middle age era Popes' crusades all over again (with the papal promise of forgiving all sins committed in the act of crusading)......in reverse. Fighting for the very survival of Islam when there is no threat (that I can think of) makes no sense.

Would be nice to hear from their leadership why they need to chop off heads and burn folks to death to create a place that truly practices the aspects of Islam in the present day world.

I guess there is some kind of threat level trigger point or line that ISIS needs to cross that will unleash an overwhelming coordinated response from like-minded nations whereby all other agendas and priorities would be superseded in order to quell a possible major threat that ISIS may create in the near future.

This isn't about Islam so much as State. A particular brand is being sold as being the only correct version but it's for establishing the purpose of a physical national entity, a nation known as the Islamic State. This is more about nationalism and a rise to power more like Fascism than it is about religion, although the latter in definitely intertwined with their core values. A real world Caliphate that can be pointed to on the map. Anyone opposing it can be burned as they aren't "true muslims", as seen with the Jordanian pilot. What are they thinking? They are thinking like Hitler. They are the master race, or religion perhaps, and it is their destiny to form an everlasting Reich. It's an old story with new actors and locations.

 

[Remobz]

Jordan has responded by executing two jihadis.


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Secu...ct-of-retaliation-for-pilot-s-gruesome-murder

Good. Two less Muslim terrorist bastards to worry about now. I hope they keep it up.

 

[bshole]

This isn't about Islam so much as State. A particular brand is being sold as being the only correct version but it's for establishing the purpose of a physical national entity, a nation known as the Islamic State. This is more about nationalism and a rise to power more like Fascism than it is about religion, although the latter in definitely intertwined with their core values. A real world Caliphate that can be pointed to on the map. Anyone opposing it can be burned as they aren't "true muslims", as seen with the Jordanian pilot. What are they thinking? They are thinking like Hitler. They are the master race, or religion perhaps, and it is their destiny to form an everlasting Reich. It's an old story with new actors and locations.

Yea but they lack the manufacturing and infrastructure to pose much of a menace to the world at large. Germany was a world power, these guys are very low end third world at best. A tempest in a teapot. Let them squabble amongst themselves. As long as we get our oil and our interests are not threatened, it really is none of our business.

 

[cabri]

This isn't about Islam so much as State. A particular brand is being sold as being the only correct version but it's for establishing the purpose of a physical national entity, a nation known as the Islamic State. This is more about nationalism and a rise to power more like Fascism than it is about religion, although the latter in definitely intertwined with their core values. A real world Caliphate that can be pointed to on the map. Anyone opposing it can be burned as they aren't "true muslims", as seen with the Jordanian pilot. What are they thinking? They are thinking like Hitler. They are the master race, or religion perhaps, and it is their destiny to form an everlasting Reich. It's an old story with new actors and locations.

Nasser tried this vision right after WWII:thumbsdown:

 

[blastingcap]

Yea but they lack the manufacturing and infrastructure to pose much of a menace to the world at large. Germany was a world power, these guys are very low end third world at best. A tempest in a teapot. Let them squabble amongst themselves. As long as we get our oil and our interests are not threatened, it really is none of our business.

Translation: you think they are the JV team. Yeah, that attitude sure worked out well.

Leaving aside all moral obligations to help a region we destablized in 2003; and leaving aside the fact that we'd lose credibility with regional allies if we did nothing, and looking only selfishly at oil, the problem is that the oil is ALREADY uncomfortably close to the front lines. Iraq is a major oil supplier and knocking out that production would rocket us right back up through $100/bbl, easily. Many people have no idea how thin of a margin there is in overcapacity.

Furthermore, ISIL has an ideology that resonates with fundie Muslims and there are a lot of such Muslims especially in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It's a short step from Iraq to Kuwait and KSA and even if all they do is blow up oil pipelines and not conquer Kuwait KSA outright, that would result in $200/bbl oil before you know it and instantaneous world recession. And conquest of Mecca/Medina would draw EVEN MORE recruits.

So your "as long as we get our oil and interests" attitude is ridiculous when a hard-to-kill enemy recruiting worldwide is already at the doorstep of Iraq's oil fields and not that far from the Arabian peninsula.

The "JV-team hide our head in the sand until we can't do so any longer" nonsense has an assumption built in, that it's easy to dislodge ISIL once its taken root somewhere. Yes, it's possible to dislodge ISIL, but incredibly difficult and expensive. It's like cancer... if you get cancer somewhere, you want to treat it and contain it ASAP before it has a chance to spread to other organs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Translation: you think they are the JV team. Yeah, that attitude sure worked out well.

Leaving aside all moral obligations to help a region we destablized in 2003; and leaving aside the fact that we'd lose credibility with regional allies if we did nothing, and looking only selfishly at oil, the problem is that the oil is ALREADY uncomfortably close to the front lines. Iraq is a major oil supplier and knocking out that production would rocket us right back up through $100/bbl, easily. Many people have no idea how thin of a margin there is in overcapacity.

Furthermore, ISIL has an ideology that resonates with fundie Muslims and there are a lot of such Muslims especially in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It's a short step from Iraq to Kuwait and KSA and even if all they do is blow up oil pipelines and not conquer Kuwait KSA outright, that would result in $200/bbl oil before you know it and instantaneous world recession. And conquest of Mecca/Medina would draw EVEN MORE recruits.

So your "as long as we get our oil and interests" attitude is ridiculous when a hard-to-kill enemy recruiting worldwide is already at the doorstep of Iraq's oil fields and not that far from the Arabian peninsula.

The "JV-team hide our head in the sand until we can't do so any longer" nonsense has an assumption built in, that it's easy to dislodge ISIL once its taken root somewhere. Yes, it's possible to dislodge ISIL, but incredibly difficult and expensive. It's like cancer... if you get cancer somewhere, you want to treat it and contain it ASAP before it has a chance to spread to other organs.

This isn't 2003. What should have been done and what can be done are entirely different because of our actions in the region for the last hundred years. Well Humpty Dumpty is smashed and you can say we owe the Iraqis and we damn well do, but were about as popular in the region as Mike Myers, so much so that we are seen by a great many as the greater of the two evils. We screwed things up to the point we can't fix them and we never could. We should have allowed a break up of Iraq into a more stable configuration but we waited about a decade too long. Instead we'd need to tear down a lame but elected government to install puppets for our vision. That's worked out in the past.

So tell me about this war you want. You aren't going to get the support from people in the region so it's go it alone except for some token approval from the Sauds. We're in it on our own. So explain how you are going to eradicate the cancer.

 

[Genx87]

Sounds contrarily crazy stupid to murder and execute innocents in order to create a specific brand (denomination) of a "perfect" religious Islamic State that espouses peace as one of its main tenets. It's like the middle age era Popes' crusades all over again (with the papal promise of forgiving all sins committed in the act of crusading)......in reverse. Fighting for the very survival of Islam when there is no threat (that I can think of) makes no sense.

Would be nice to hear from their leadership why they need to chop off heads and burn folks to death to create a place that truly practices the aspects of Islam in the present day world.

I guess there is some kind of threat level trigger point or line that ISIS needs to cross that will unleash an overwhelming coordinated response from like-minded nations whereby all other agendas and priorities would be superseded in order to quell a possible major threat that ISIS may create in the near future.

The pure state they are erecting is their vision of Islam. That includes burning people alive, chopping off heads, mass graves, sex trade. So it makes perfect sense for them to be doing exactly that.

 

[bradly1101]

Given that the 'other side' is ISIS it's impossible not to have the moral high-ground.
They really are the scum of the earth.

A war cry if I ever heard one.

 

[Genx87]

This is Iran's war. They propped up an unpopular and brutal dictator in Assad that has dragged out the civil war far longer than many anticipated. They funded Hezbollah to attack Daesh. They strongly supported corrupt and abusive Shiite lader Maliki until the international pressure was too much and they grudgingly replaced him with yet another Shia lackey, but one with a fresh face that would be less objectionable to non-Shia.

All of this led to Sunni resentment that led to Daesh.

And Iran funds terrorist Shia militias that rob the regular Iraqi army of manpower and further brutalize Sunnis and harden resentment against them and feed into AQ/Daesh recruitment.

Daesh incursions onto Iranian soil have had some success but there hasn't been much open warfare between Iran's regular army yet. Which is too bad. I wouldn't mind if Iran and Daesh destroyed each other and led to regime change in Iran and Syria.

Your posts seem to forget the United States role in oppressing the Sunni minority. Which directly lead to the insurgency. Instead you have blamed Iran for funding shia majorities which we installed to oppress Sunnis. You have blamed the Assad regime for not falling over.

To top it off you want regime change in two more countries. As if regime change and the utter destruction it has left behind in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and Egypt has convinced you power vacuums are productive.

 

[WelshBloke]

A war cry if I ever heard one.

So you don't think that they are the scum of the earth or you think that we have the moral low ground to a bunch of thugs that burn people alive and carry out mass executions based on religious following or mass kidnappings and child rape?

 

[Ns1]

Jordan executed 2 today.

 

[Screech]

Sounds contrarily crazy stupid to murder and execute innocents in order to create a specific brand (denomination) of a "perfect" religious Islamic State that espouses peace as one of its main tenets.

In some circles of extremist/fundamentalist islam or islamofascism (which I think is a very fitting word to describe ISIS), 'peace' translates roughly as "there are no more disagreements because everyone follows our interpretation of the Prophet Mohammed's words, commands, and beliefs." This is needless to say very different from what we in the west usually describe as 'peace' or 'peaceful'......especially insofar as the actions that would be required to achieve this state.

 

[cabri]

Jordan executed 2 today.

They were Iraqi AQ from many years back, not ISIS

The woman was a suicide bomber that the package did not detonate.

 

[bradly1101]

I don't know about that, ISIS goes up against anything more than unarmed civilians they usually get their asses handed to them. Against a coalition with modern western armament, airpower, communications, and command and I don't think the Afghan situation applies. Plus they are trying to create a new country.

Yes, different conflicts, but that doesn't make it easier or more inevitable to win. Like I said, we had a big hand in practically destroying Kobane to remove them. That sounds like at least a very long slog to me.

"BBC Analyst Paul Woods said that if the reports are true, than the American-led airstrikes [in Kobane] played a key part in ISIS' downfall in the four-months-long battle. He added that the terror group's grip over Syria has not yet been loosened, however.
"This setback for IS does not necessarily mean they are losing overall. Syrian opposition sources say IS actually have more territory under their control now than when the United States and its allies started bombing, last August," Woods said.

"In Iraq, the authorities say Islamic State have been pushed out of the eastern province of Diyala, but the jihadis have made gains to control most of the western province of Anbar. The battle against IS is ultimately a battle for Sunni Muslim public opinion — and Sunnis have been angered by the civilians casualties in their areas caused by US airstrikes."
Link

That statistic is missing from 'big media' in America including how challenging Kobane was. Our war machine exerts great control over what most people see.

I think the key will be containment, that is keeping existing ISIS fighters and support contained and killed while at the same time preventing the influx of foreigners looking to join outside that zone.

The trouble is that we are fighting an idea that's metastasizing with every bomb we drop and every martyr we create.

 

[Ns1]

this is good, they're pissing off their Arab neighbors so we get more support.

Jordan's military, on the other hand, is seeking to conduct more of the anti-ISIS airstrikes assigned by the coalition, a U.S. official with direct knowledge of the situation told CNN on condition of anonymity. The number of strikes Jordan can carry out will depend on the location of the targets, weather and other factors, the official said.

Jordanian government spokesman Mohammad al-Momani vowed "an earthshaking retaliation" and "a revenge that equals the tragedy that has befallen the Jordanians." But the executions of the two prisoners with ties to al Qaeda in Iraq, a precursor to ISIS, came more quickly than some observers had expected.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/04/world/isis-jordan-reaction/index.html

 

[Pocatello]

why don't we let the locals settle things their own ways. ISIS brutal method is going to be its own down fall. When people have few options, fight ISIS or being brutally executed for surrendering, they are going to stop surrendering. Europe and the US can help, but I'm afraid the people we help are just going to be as brutal as ISIS when it comes to treatment of people who are not your tribes or clans.

 

[zinfamous]

why don't we let the locals settle things their own ways. ISIS brutal method is going to be its own down fall. When people have few options, fight ISIS or being brutally executed for surrendering, they are going to stop surrendering. Europe and the US can help, but I'm afraid the people we help are just going to be as brutal as ISIS when it comes to treatment of people who are not your tribes or clans.

Bill Maher made a good point the other night: "The rest of the world just needs to sit back and let the Middle East have the Civil War that they have [deserved] for decades now."

And they really do need one, unfortunately. I'm not sure if it's The West's fear that our enemies will be the victors (Well, they are all pretty much some flavor of our enemy--except for The Kurds, I guess), and the further issue of meddling with the new state that we didn't want.

Or just a fear of not aiding our "allies"? what allies? The Saudi's--those fucking wahabist asswhipes that actively bred all of this bullshit?

 

[raildogg]

Just another low point for humanity. I wonder who came up with the name "Islamic State." What a bunch of BS and WE all fall for it. Why are we calling them by this name? This is not true Islam in any way. Just like the Crusaders waging war were not Christian even though they were wearing the Cross.

Please realize this - human beings abuse religion to suit their agenda. These ISIS or ISIL or whatever guys are a bunch of delusional sheep who follow somebody. They are just as brainwashed as similar groups of the past - who supposedly killed in the name of their political party or religion. This type of brutality doesn't escape mankind. We are this. We are capable of this. To say otherwise is not to face reality.

When this so-called "Islamic State" group falls, another group will take its place. So destroying ISIS should not be the main goal. We need to realize that killing this or that organization isn't really helping anyone. Destroy Al-Qaeda or ISIL, somebody else will come along.

The key is to change the way people think, feel and act. For that we don't need books or education. A lot of people in small village huts live a decent life without books.

What is needed is we all realize that maybe, just maybe we might be wrong. I think we should look in the mirror and fix our own selves first. But no, we want to fix the world thinking that we are just fine. This type of thinking is behind every single conflict in the world