Is zero point energy possible

[paulandreas]

Because I find it hard identifying which sites are credible and which are just crazies. Thanks.













(not a sarcasm thread re the nuclear fusion thread)

 

[lobadobadingdong]

no everything has either potential (also called static) or kinetic energy

 

[Beller0ph1]

Well, theoretically if we get everything to 0K (0 Kelvin), molecular motion should stop. But since there is still a potential difference between the protons and electrons in an atom, I don't think we could ever get to 0 energy.

 

[Woodchuck2000]

A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.

A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

 

[Zhou]

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.

A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

No it is NOT possible to have zero point energy.

Also, what about dark matter?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Beller0ph1
Well, theoretically if we get everything to 0K (0 Kelvin), molecular motion should stop. But since there is still a potential difference between the protons and electrons in an atom, I don't think we could ever get to 0 energy.

Well, then why not get a hydrogen ion down to 0 Kelvin?

AFAIK, zero pont energy is a limit, but cannot be reached.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.

A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

Unfortunately, you can't take a point in space which is entirely empty. There is no such thing as a vacuum completely void of any particles. Quantum mechanics shows us that particles pop into and out of existence all the time. I'll just cut and paste, rather than type this stuff myself. (it's quicker!)

To us, vacuums appear to contain nothing at all. But, it you were to look closely, very, very closely (to the order of 10^-35m), space is actually a foaming mass of quantum activity. This quantum foam is made of particles and micro-black holes popping in and out of existence, apparently in contravention of the second law of thermodynamics, they appear out of nothing with energy, then disappear again just as quickly. The key to this is the uncertainty principle. The disturbance is permitted to ?borrow? a tiny amount of energy and exist for a very short length of time, and then it must return the energy and disappear again. But, the more energy it borrows, the less time it is allowed to exist. These ?temporary? particles, called virtual particles, are not just theoretical, they have been proven to have real effects on scientific experiment.

 

[fredtam]

Yes ZPE exist. It is IMO the reason everything exist. It is how you get something from nothing. Is it a viable energy source of the future like I'm assuming the sites you are referring to are claiming? Probably not but who knows? A Russian that claimed to have tapped it but I don't really believe it. I think when we start fvcking aroundwith that kind of stuff we may just get the "singularity bomb" Schadenfroh wished for in the fusion thread. I think the only time ZPE will come into play will be after all particles decay and there is once again nothing and not powering your refrigerator. Free energy would be nice though.

 

[silverpig]

Zero point energy is as DrPizza said the energy of a vacuum. Take a box, stick it in space, and make it impenetrable. Make sure the box is completely empty. There will be spontaneous pair production and annihilation of particles all the time inside the box. Tapping this would mean stealing one of the particles before they could annihilate, or somehow siphoning off one of the photons from the annihilation reaction.

 

[paulandreas]

i thought it was hypothesisted to be ultrahighfrequency electromagnetic radiation created in the big bang, which permeates the galaxy, and as it is a wave/ particle is around at zero kelvin.

i thought the experiments wanted to convert it into heat energy usuing natural frequency and objects that have a very high frequency natural frequency. one experiment i saw used two tubes, the inner one rotating at a high frequency with holes bored in both, and a small gap. water was pushed through the gap between the tubes with the shockwaves from the holes vibrating the water at high frequency, and apparrently more energy came out that went in, but i dont see any products like that out yet.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: Zhou

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.

A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

No it is NOT possible to have zero point energy.

You seem to be rather certain. Where did you get your PhD?

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: paulandreas
i thought it was hypothesisted to be ultrahighfrequency electromagnetic radiation created in the big bang, which permeates the galaxy, and as it is a wave/ particle is around at zero kelvin.

i thought the experiments wanted to convert it into heat energy usuing natural frequency and objects that have a very high frequency natural frequency. one experiment i saw used two tubes, the inner one rotating at a high frequency with holes bored in both, and a small gap. water was pushed through the gap between the tubes with the shockwaves from the holes vibrating the water at high frequency, and apparrently more energy came out that went in, but i dont see any products like that out yet.

I think it is the cause of the Big Bang rather than the effect but yes there are experiments to try and tap into it.

 

[Woodchuck2000]

Originally posted by: Zhou

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.
A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

No it is NOT possible to have zero point energy.
Also, what about dark matter?

Good question, what <about> dark matter? It is theoretically possible for there to exist a region of space infinitessimally small where, for an equally small period of time, there is nothing having energy greater than zero. Upon what are you basing your argument?

 

[ndee]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: Zhou

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
A point, yes. If you take a point in space which is entirely empty, then there can be no energy.

A point-mass with no energy however, is impossible.

No it is NOT possible to have zero point energy.

You seem to be rather certain. Where did you get your PhD?

Pretty huge Dick?

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: paulandreas
i thought it was hypothesisted to be ultrahighfrequency electromagnetic radiation created in the big bang, which permeates the galaxy, and as it is a wave/ particle is around at zero kelvin.

i thought the experiments wanted to convert it into heat energy usuing natural frequency and objects that have a very high frequency natural frequency. one experiment i saw used two tubes, the inner one rotating at a high frequency with holes bored in both, and a small gap. water was pushed through the gap between the tubes with the shockwaves from the holes vibrating the water at high frequency, and apparrently more energy came out that went in, but i dont see any products like that out yet.

That's the CMB (cosmic microwave background). It's microwave radiation now and has a temperature of about 2.73 K IIRC.

 

[paulandreas]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: paulandreas
i thought it was hypothesisted to be ultrahighfrequency electromagnetic radiation created in the big bang, which permeates the galaxy, and as it is a wave/ particle is around at zero kelvin.

i thought the experiments wanted to convert it into heat energy usuing natural frequency and objects that have a very high frequency natural frequency. one experiment i saw used two tubes, the inner one rotating at a high frequency with holes bored in both, and a small gap. water was pushed through the gap between the tubes with the shockwaves from the holes vibrating the water at high frequency, and apparrently more energy came out that went in, but i dont see any products like that out yet.

That's the CMB (cosmic microwave background). It's microwave radiation now and has a temperature of about 2.73 K IIRC.

its not because it isnt microwave frequency. the frequency is above gamma rays.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is interesting.