Is Windows 10 the final nail in Mantle's coffin?

[2is]

With Microsoft announcing that Windows 10 (and with it, DX12) will be a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users, is that the unofficial end of Mantle? I certainly think so.

 

[Silverforce11]

Mantle as it is, CPU overhead reduction is only the first phase of what AMD has planned. They have said publicly the focus can shift to actual GPU rendering efficiency improvements. If you don't believe their statement, then sure, you can think of Mantle as being dead once DX12 is available.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Mantle never had a chance. And one has to ask what can AMD afford these days. Remember the 15% R&D cut, massive bleeding of marketshare and layoffs. And another forecasted 15% revenue drop for Q1.

 

[2is]

What they say
What they do
What developers decide to support

Seems like lot needs to go right for it not to die. Even now with no competitive low level API to compete with it, it's usage appears to be sparse, as does it's benefits. The concept is great, the execution poor, and now I think it won't be long before it's a clear cut case of too little too late.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah I think it may be it. In some cases a competing Nvidia card is getting better performance than Mantle gives to AMD cards. It isn't getting enough developer support either.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

And one has to ask what can AMD afford these days..

High quality GPUs with good price/performance ratio. Enough for me.

Mantle's survival has nothing to do with Windows 10 and everything to do with developer support.

 

[Spjut]

It doesn't make sense to drop Mantle support for the current engines already supporting it

 

[2is]

High quality GPUs with good price/performance ratio. Enough for me.

Mantle's survival has nothing to do with Windows 10 and everything to do with developer support.

Strictly speaking that may be true, but the reality is that Windows 10 will affect developer support. As I stated, even now without DX12 competing with Mantle, developer support is not great and it certainly isn't going to get better if Mantle offers even lees over DX.

Now just to be clear, I'm referring to Mantle specifically, not AMD GPU's

 

[2is]

It doesn't make sense to drop Mantle support for the current engines already supporting it

Game engines that supported Glide still support Glide, that doesn't mean it isn't dead.

 

[monstercameron]

Yeah I think it may be it. In some cases a competing Nvidia card is getting better performance than Mantle gives to AMD cards. It isn't getting enough developer support either.

sources please.

 

[cmdrdredd]

sources please.

Source for the fact that developers aren't using it? Seriously?

 

[2is]

sources please.

Look at all the games that are using mantle
Look at all the games that aren't

There's your source.

 

[Cerb]

This is yet another thread on this subject, without anything backing it up. Does some feature of Windows 10 block the use of MANTLE, at this point in time, or what? If it functions on Windows 10, then where's the connection?

 

[cmdrdredd]

This is yet another thread on this subject, without anything backing it up. Does some feature of Windows 10 block the use of MANTLE, at this point in time, or what? If it functions on Windows 10, then where's the connection?

DirectX 12 offering the benefits that Mantle brings but works universally.

 

[2is]

This is yet another thread on this subject, without anything backing it up. Does some feature of Windows 10 block the use of MANTLE, at this point in time, or what? If it functions on Windows 10, then where's the connection?

If you look at it objectively, it becomes quite clear that no active blocking is necessary for mantle to become irrelevant with Windows 10. If you look at it with AMD super enthusiast mentality, you may confuse yourself as you just have. The dots are really not that hard to connect, that's why you're seeing threads on the matter.

 

[Cerb]

If you look at it objectively, it becomes quite clear that no active blocking is necessary for mantle to become irrelevant with Windows 10. If you look at it with AMD super enthusiast mentality, you may confuse yourself as you just have. The dots are really not that hard to connect, that's why you're seeing threads on the matter.

AMD super enthusiast mentality, with a Xeon, Core 2 Duos, Celeron, and Geforces .

Mantle never got a chance to become relevant to most PC gamers, and never was going to become relevant. It was a novel (today, anyway) way to provide driver optimizations, nothing more. So, my mark for its death is not relevance, but functionality for users, and continued use by devs claiming to support it as it is. Mantle never had a future. If a thing named Mantle does have a future, it will be new and different for newer GPUs, and not the same Mantle you may be using now.

DirectX 12 offering the benefits that Mantle brings but works universally.

So, a feature that will take 5-10 years to materialize in mainstream games (as more than a gimmick, anyway--see DX10 and then DX11), without some payola, which is unlikely for a new DX, spells the end of a niche software technology currently only in use by a small fraction of developers? By the time DX12 is relevant to users, Windows 10 will be the mainstream OS of most users anyway, if not a version higher. If DX12's installation doesn't cause Mantle to not work, it will continue to be used or not used based on ease of implementation and support, and expected revenue from offering support.

 

[monstercameron]

Look at all the games that are using mantle
Look at all the games that aren't

There's your source.

hnn so no data backing up your point, an anecdote. Not that I dont also use anecdotes. Bash mantle with facts please.

 

[cmdrdredd]

hnn so no data backing up your point, an anecdote. Not that I dont also use anecdotes. Bash mantle with facts please.

We did, but you need to do your research too. There are more games NOT using mantle than games that are. Cureently there are only 11 games that have support for Mantle. Almost all of them are from EA and using Frostbyte 3. That's fact. Also about 80% of the dGPU market cannot use mantle.

So, a feature that will take 5-10 years to materialize in mainstream games (as more than a gimmick, anyway--see DX10 and then DX11), without some payola, which is unlikely for a new DX, spells the end of a niche software technology currently only in use by a small fraction of developers?

The benefits of DX12 will come much faster than DX11 I promise you.

 

[2is]

hnn so no data backing up your point, an anecdote. Not that I dont also use anecdotes. Bash mantle with facts please.

I just showed you where to get your data. You being lazy and expecting it to be spoon fed to you does not equate to it not existing. You can look it up or not look it up. The data will be there either way and reality will remain reality.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Mantle was a cool idea; glad to see DX12 bring the same coolness that Mantle did.

 

[AnandThenMan]

There are more games NOT using mantle than games that are.

No way, really?

Mantle was a cool idea; glad to see DX12 bring the same coolness that Mantle did.

It's amazing how DX12 has brought all of these things to gaming and it will be released in about a year.

 

[Silverforce11]

Mantle was a cool idea; glad to see DX12 bring the same coolness that Mantle did.

Yup. It's done its job and can go die off in old API's home proudly.

 

[2is]

AMD super enthusiast mentality, with a Xeon, Core 2 Duos, Celeron, and Geforces .

Mantle never got a chance to become relevant to most PC gamers, and never was going to become relevant. It was a novel (today, anyway) way to provide driver optimizations, nothing more. So, my mark for its death is not relevance, but functionality for users, and continued use by devs claiming to support it as it is.

So, a feature that will take 5-10 years to materialize in mainstream games (as more than a gimmick, anyway--see DX10 and then DX11), without some payola, which is unlikely for a new DX, spells the end of a niche software technology currently only in use by a small fraction of developers?

You can technically nail a coffin with someone alive in there, but how long will they last? We're saying the same thing, you're just harping on semantics at this point.

 

[Cerb]

The benefits of DX12 will come much faster than DX11 I promise you.

Only if hardware replacement picks up its pace. Going by Steam's hardware survey, there's a long way to go. As long DX12 is a secondary set of code, it will be a graphics gimmick only, much like we saw with DX9+(DX10/DX11) games, with performance improvements not coming along until the older DX was ditched (slow and choppy, but great looking, or fast and smooth, but more plastic looking...plastic is good).

You can technically nail a coffin with someone alive in there, but how long will they last? We're saying the same thing, you're just harping on semantics at this point.

With Microsoft announcing that Windows 10 (and with it, DX12) will be a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users, is that the unofficial end of Mantle? I certainly think so.

Semantics are all that exist, here, and that's all anyone is harping on. But, no, we're not saying the same thing. The last sentence in your OP confirms that. I'm saying that if Windows 10 were not a free upgrade, and has just as slow adoption as Windows 8/8.1 did, it will have basically no affect on Mantle. Mantle still will work for users that don't upgrade, which will be many for the first few years, DX12 will require new GPUs for many, and DX12 will require much work on the game engines and games, to be worth having and using. As far as any kind of technology for widespread use by PC gamers, it was never relevant, much like optional PhysX, which got more use (oh, my poor AMD card and non-SOTA CPU...oh, wait, I can barely tell the difference if I turn this crap off, and I don't see dust and debris everywhere...sweet!).

 

[2is]

But Windows 10 IS a free upgrade, so i'm not sure what purpose you're trying to serve by bring up a scenario that we know doesn't exist. That's like saying if mantle was better supported it would be better supported....