Is Windows 10 most pointless upgrade for gaming?

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BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
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Why are you using a 2009 era OS with 2016 hardware?
Same reason I'm still using a 2010-era fridge and 2011-era printer. "It just works". Personally, the reason I'm using W7 is because I play mostly older games. Although most games "technically ran" when I tried out W10, VSync was broken on W10 for several of them despite being forced on in the GPU driver, strange 30fps caps in games which were never capped before (apparently related to changes in DWM), weird non-performance related stuttering was introduced for several that wasn't there previously, and several games benchmarked slightly slower (due to needing Borderless Windowed vs Exclusive Fullscreen), etc. Fortunately, I was lucky enough to source "noCDs" for older DRM on retail games that if I hadn't have done so, also wouldn't have run under W10. Nor do I care about DX12.

The bottom line is, people will use what works for them regardless of "The One True Way Of Using Your Computer (tm)" endless forum "lectures", and Windows 7 users still outnumber W10 users by 2:1 despite the obvious sampling bias in "enthusiast 'real' gamer" forums... ;)
 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,856
687
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The bottom line is, people will use what works for them regardless of "The One True Way Of Using Your Computer (tm)" endless forum "lectures", and Windows 7 users still outnumber W10 users by 2:1 despite the obvious sampling bias in "enthusiast 'real' gamer" forums... ;)
For what it's worth, more Steam users (i.e. the vast majority of PC gamers) run Windows 10 than 7. But, please, don't let facts get in the way.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
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For what it's worth, more Steam users (i.e. the vast majority of PC gamers) run Windows 10 than 7. But, please, don't let facts get in the way.
And that's precisely why I said "sampling bias amongst gamers". Amazing how upset some people get over how other people use their Personal Computers...
 

clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
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XP used to be the favorite, now it's 7. In five or six years it'll be people whining about how they'll never give up windows 10 because windows 12 sucks.
MS has said no more Numbered versions, they want to to follow Apple into the APP store, closed environment , print money territory. So it will just be upgrades with sudo names. Win 10 bobcat, etc. They are already experimenting with some closed apps, only way to get them is app store.
personally I don't mind win 10, i don't like the closed system mini steps they are taking, shades of the IE/netscape anti trust. But hell if APPLE can do it, why shouldn't MS? But i sure hope not.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
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Fixed it for you.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_12_support
2) That is changed in the Creator's update
3) Complete control? o_O Hardly.

New CPU / chipset support are only updated on Win 10, that alone is a huge reason to use it.

Wait, you said you had complete control over win 7, why it hitch and stutter?

While there are other better reasons to keep using win 7, you didn't list them.
So, this may be a completely different topic, but tell me what you can do with a 'new' chipset that you can't do with a 2500k that is overclocked. I realize there are corner cases and bleeding edge people, and overall they are faster, but what exactly takes advantage of that? Almost nothing. I run games on high/ultra without issue and the only thing I've needed to upgrade is my GPU. Basically while MAYBE it is just now starting to show it's age, I think it will still be another 2-3 years before an upgrade is really all that necessary, and by then, hopefully Win10 will be better overall. I didn't jump on Win7 when it came out either...or any MS OS for that matter, always gave it a few years.

This is a serious question, not a snarky one. I honestly have found nothing I can't do besides a few Win10 only things - processor wise I've seen zero reason for the average person to upgrade to a new cpu in the last 5 years other than spec bragging rights. I am sure they exist, but nothing in my life calls for it and I'm on computers working or playing almost all day.

Technology has became so mainstream that it has become a 'keeping up with the jones' ' mentality. Of course there are extreme cases, and server reasons, and even workload reasons (say like digital editing, 3d modeling etc), but for MOST people it's just a waste of money because nothing has driven a need for anything other than GPU's. Crappy ports and poor optimization really are not reasons.
 
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Peepee

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2017
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So, this may be a completely different topic, but tell me what you can do with a 'new' chipset that you can't do with a 2500k that is overclocked. I realize there are corner cases and bleeding edge people, and overall they are faster, but what exactly takes advantage of that? Almost nothing. I run games on high/ultra without issue and the only thing I've needed to upgrade is my GPU. Basically while MAYBE it is just now starting to show it's age, I think it will still be another 2-3 years before an upgrade is really all that necessary, and by then, hopefully Win10 will be better overall. I didn't jump on Win7 when it came out either...or any MS OS for that matter, always gave it a few years.

This is a serious question, not a snarky one. I honestly have found nothing I can't do besides a few Win10 only things - processor wise I've seen zero reason for the average person to upgrade to a new cpu in the last 5 years other than spec bragging rights. I am sure they exist, but nothing in my life calls for it and I'm on computers working or playing almost all day.
I've heard processors with greater amounts of cache have less hitches in games (especially open world games where it's a huge problem).
Could just be a bs internet rumor though, just like the claim that ssd cure open world stutters.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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I've heard processors with greater amounts of cache have less hitches in games (especially open world games where it's a huge problem).
Could just be a bs internet rumor though, just like the claim that ssd cure open world stutters.
It probably does in some cases. I've not really had any issues that I've seen. The only thing making me consider an upgrade at this point is VR which I'm fully invested in (have both a Rift and Vive). The thing is though, that is still more about GPU than CPU.
 

Peepee

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2017
11
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It probably does in some cases.
If it does there should be clear definitive proof. All it takes is to put two frametime graphs side by side and compare them. Nobody has ever done that. So it's just more baseless internet claims.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,076
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Windows 7 was built for desktop performance. Windows 10 was built so microsoft can monitor every keystroke you make, and cause they want to penetrate the mobile market.
The OS is basically an advanced cash register. Its build for sales. And not just selling programs directly to you, but also selling your information to other companies.

I'm genuinely surprised they didnt put in 99 cent themes and wallpapers.
 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
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And that's precisely why I said "sampling bias amongst gamers". Amazing how upset some people get over how other people use their Personal Computers...
You're the one putting scare quotes around enthusiast gamers, in a thread about gaming and Windows 10, and you're trying to say other people are upset? Hey buddy, go look in a mirror.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
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Windows 7 was built for desktop performance. Windows 10 was built so microsoft can monitor every keystroke you make, and cause they want to penetrate the mobile market.
Built for desktop performance? What? If anything 10 has way better desktop performance with a new WDDM plus .jpeg/.png acceleration and general hardware acceleration throughout the UI.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
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So, this may be a completely different topic, but tell me what you can do with a 'new' chipset that you can't do with a 2500k that is overclocked. I realize there are corner cases and bleeding edge people, and overall they are faster, but what exactly takes advantage of that? Almost nothing. I run games on high/ultra without issue and the only thing I've needed to upgrade is my GPU. Basically while MAYBE it is just now starting to show it's age, I think it will still be another 2-3 years before an upgrade is really all that necessary, and by then, hopefully Win10 will be better overall. I didn't jump on Win7 when it came out either...or any MS OS for that matter, always gave it a few years.

This is a serious question, not a snarky one. I honestly have found nothing I can't do besides a few Win10 only things - processor wise I've seen zero reason for the average person to upgrade to a new cpu in the last 5 years other than spec bragging rights. I am sure they exist, but nothing in my life calls for it and I'm on computers working or playing almost all day.

Technology has became so mainstream that it has become a 'keeping up with the jones' ' mentality. Of course there are extreme cases, and server reasons, and even workload reasons (say like digital editing, 3d modeling etc), but for MOST people it's just a waste of money because nothing has driven a need for anything other than GPU's. Crappy ports and poor optimization really are not reasons.
See Eurogamer's 2500K piece on gaming performance. A 2500K is ageing badly against modern i5s. As for chipset, it depends. H270 (the standard non gimped "Home" chipset) has the new reversible Type C connector, M.2 x 2, support for NVMe PCI-E SSDs, modern UEFI/GPT options for storage, SpeedShift, and is built on a smaller process. As to whether this matters, it varies. There certainly are platform benefits.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
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I would really not say it is aging badly at all - I mean the chip is pretty old and still runs everything you throw at it. Personally I think that is tech people overcompensating and trying to drum up excitement over a non issue. There is bias among the techheads (I used to be that way as well, but at some point you realize you don't need the latest CPU to get that extra 10 frames a second). I'm not at all saying there aren't benefits, and obviously if you need a new computer get the latest and greatest that fits your budget, but again I think much of it is overstated because software drives hardware needs, and it simply isn't there for the most part. In fact, the only thing that seems to be forcing the issue is MS with Win10 - which lets face it, is just a glorified storefront so it seems very artificial. Buying new PC's has mostly always been a "oh this won't run half the stuff anymore at a decent speed" and it just isn't the case (yet). The rest is just fluff that as you allude to, matters on a personal preference level rather than users as a whole.

I blame Apple for the overall mentality and their yearly 'i' releases.

That being said, I am not at all against new builds or new tech, I just wait until - as I stated above, things just don't work like they should. I do know I've used Win10 enough to know, I still don't like it.
 
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BSim500

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Jun 5, 2013
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You're the one putting scare quotes around enthusiast gamers, in a thread about gaming and Windows 10, and you're trying to say other people are upset? Hey buddy, go look in a mirror.
The "quotes" were a light-hearted jibe at those who declare who "real" gamers are (usually after upgrading their own hardware or OS, funny example here a few days back), yet spend more time on forums arguing over other people's PC's than they do playing games on their own rig, whilst their target's are usually too busy playing games on "lesser" specs to care). And no, that's not "anger" or "upset" to observe such behavior, merely mild bemusement. :)

Point is, how many other people use x product is irrelevant if you personally feel comfortable / are finding more compatibility with y. If OP wants to run W7, XP, Linux, ChromeOS, Windows 3.1, MS-DOS 2.0, or even take a shot at OS/2 Warp or BeOS5, it's his computer and his choice. Run what's best for you and learn to live and let live when someone else chooses differently.
 
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SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
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Disagree. With all the DX12 optimizations going on in graphics hardware, widespread adoption in games seems inevitable to me. In fact, the last 5-6 games I've played on pc seemed to offer some kind of DX12 mode, and I wasn't even seeking them out. Not only that but a few, notably rise of the tomb raider and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, offered a substantial performance improvement in DX12 mode on supported hardware.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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The bottom line is, people will use what works for them regardless of "The One True Way Of Using Your Computer (tm)" endless forum "lectures", and Windows 7 users still outnumber W10 users by 2:1 despite the obvious sampling bias in "enthusiast 'real' gamer" forums... ;)
What is interesting about that is that Win10 usage on Steam is declining while Win7 usage is increasing. Also, I don't know where that 2:1 came from, because it is 41% (win10) to 36% (win7) and 23% (other) - directly from Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey\

There's some other interesting info in there as well like the high number of users with 4GB of memory and dual cores.
 
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PrincessFrosty

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Feb 13, 2008
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For a gamer it seems to be the best thing to stick with Windows 7.

Only pro: Has DirectX 12

Cons:
  • No games use DirectX 12, and no games ever will except a couple of ones microsoft paid for.
  • In Windows 7 you can choose which updates you want and if you want them. In windows 10 updates are forced down your throat, even unstable driver updates that mess up your PC. And you can't stop them. "You're in the middle of an online game? F**k you I'm gonna start update and take all your bandwidth." And Gigabytes among gigabytes of constant downloads for things you neither want nor use.
  • Windows 7 gives you almost complete control over it to tweak for best gaming performance. Windows 10 be like "Awww big scawy Opewating System too complex for you."

And there's no performance benefit except a frame per second or two. Games still hitch and stutter, the same way they did on Windows 7. Like those slight pauses and freezes that ruin immersion.

I had to write this after my experience with windows 10. Am downgrading to windows 7 now.
DirectX 12 adoption will just take time as every single DX version over the decades has taken, this is nothing new if you know your history. It's chicken and egg because no many users want DX12 unless there's games that use it, and not many developers will use it until there's a decent audience, so it's always hard to bootstrap but it always ends up being wide spread adopted, just takes 2-3 years.

You can disable automatic downloading of updates and change it to a reminder, you can also set the preferred download/install time. You can turn off automatic installation of newer drivers completely.

Your last point isn't even a coherent point, can you show examples of what you mean?

I'm not a particular fan of Win10, i think they made a few mistakes and privacy is an issue (install an outbound firewall and block windows), but this post is quite frankly stupid. At least learn how to use it first before you moan. And in a few years when most games use DX12 and run better because of the optimizations and have some nice effects, you'll want to upgrade.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Windows 7 was built for desktop performance. Windows 10 was built so microsoft can monitor every keystroke you make, and cause they want to penetrate the mobile market.

You want desktop performance stick with Linux, as for gaming Win10 is fine, far better security then Win7 which is on its last legs and sooner it goes the better, every OS comes and goes and 7 is no different, as to privacy tracking etc funny how you forgot to mention Microsoft slipped that into Win7, end of the its not going to make much difference, in my personal use with 10 not had any slow downs or interruptions in gaming, no BSOD or crashes so very stable OS, do I want 7 hell no, am I bothered about 10 privacy etc no, you are tracked more from the day you leave your house, just some people are more paranoid then others and have more to lose with illegal software etc on their PCs.

Right back to my happy 10 online gaming with no slowdowns :) .Keep bringing the Win10 FUD I find it amusing to say the least.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
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The OS is basically an advanced cash register. Its build for sales. And not just selling programs directly to you, but also selling your information to other companies.

I'm genuinely surprised they didnt put in 99 cent themes and wallpapers.
So... like when they sold the Windows XP add-on pack as a separate purchase?

I don't get your point. This thread was over after Merad's post (Post #16), and just about everything after that has been people gladly and ignorantly proving the point.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
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You want desktop performance stick with Linux, as for gaming Win10 is fine, far better security then Win7 which is on its last legs and sooner it goes the better, every OS comes and goes and 7 is no different, as to privacy tracking etc funny how you forgot to mention Microsoft slipped that into Win7, end of the its not going to make much difference, in my personal use with 10 not had any slow downs or interruptions in gaming, no BSOD or crashes so very stable OS, do I want 7 hell no, am I bothered about 10 privacy etc no, you are tracked more from the day you leave your house, just some people are more paranoid then others and have more to lose with illegal software etc on their PCs.

Right back to my happy 10 online gaming with no slowdowns :) .Keep bringing the Win10 FUD I find it amusing to say the least.
Sooo..you say 'you've' had no issues while plenty of people have, while saying Win7 is crap while it works fine for others. Way to think outside the box. Talking about Win7 security is a joke though for anyone who thinks Win10 is actually more secure. It just has different security issues among other issues. Never delude yourself into thinking that the latest and greatest is "better" just because it's new.

If it works for you fine, but don't use scare tactics to try to get your point across.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
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If it does there should be clear definitive proof. All it takes is to put two frametime graphs side by side and compare them. Nobody has ever done that. So it's just more baseless internet claims.
Actually, Digital Foundry does just that.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
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So... like when they sold the Windows XP add-on pack as a separate purchase?

I don't get your point. This thread was over after Merad's post (Post #16), and just about everything after that has been people gladly and ignorantly proving the point.
Yes we know, 'this is a tech forum, unless you have the newest of everything you are wrong'. I beg to differ. I have my money and still do the same things you do :p All that ultimately matters is when you built it and how much life you get out of it before having to start over.
 
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Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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81
Sooo..you say 'you've' had no issues while plenty of people have, while saying Win7 is crap while it works fine for others. Way to think outside the box. Talking about Win7 security is a joke though for anyone who thinks Win10 is actually more secure. It just has different security issues among other issues. Never delude yourself into thinking that the latest and greatest is "better" just because it's new.

If it works for you fine, but don't use scare tactics to try to get your point across.

Scare tactics, funny alI I see is some users trying to do that about Win10, yes Win10 is more secure then 7 , known fact for many reasons I won't bore you with since I don't care what people use as their OS, as to issues sure you can find many users with issues on any OS including 7, my point being in general Windows OS is stable, as to 100% bug free well no Windows OS ever claimed that honour.

As to latest and greatest, I started way back in the good old DOS days, Win10 is just another OS to me like 8,7,Vista,XP,98,95 etc I've used over the decades. My point being there is always users moaning and bitching about the latest and next OS, Win10 is the flavor of the month because it's the latest, nothing changes around here over the decades from my time at the forums.

Fine if don't like the OS in question, however no need (not saying you btw) to keep bitching and starting another 1 millionth thread on the subject, just complain to Microsoft and don't use it , simple as that.

And to think I remember the 2k v XP bitching threads in these forums, full circle it seems.

Side Note: I miss my DOS days, at least then you had to use your brain, since Win95, OS is like auto pilot for the most part with no user skill needed.
 
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Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
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Side Note: I miss my DOS days, at least then you had to use your brain, since Win95, OS is like auto pilot for the most part with no user skill needed.
To be fair, without newer OSes pulling down the learning curve and driving sales, I doubt that PCs would've advanced to the point they have, and probably would've still been extremely expensive.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
To be fair, without newer OSes pulling down the learning curve and driving sales, I doubt that PCs would've advanced to the point they have, and probably would've still been extremely expensive.

You have a point but should we not be getting smarter as decades move forward?..Modern Windows is great for gaming and has taken a lot of the harder stuff like memory remapping away from DOS days.

It seems to me the simpler modern Windows has become, the more people like to moan and bitch, I don't remember that in the old DOS days, guess we were more of a learning bunch and less moaning bunch back then.
 
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