Is Union even defendible?

[Xellos2099]

I am not sure with all the outrage at the WI bill against the Union; Union's power has gotten TOO powerful and need to be dealt with. For those who disagree with me, I am listing a few examples on WHY union is too powerful for its own good.

1. Chicago, CTA. For years they are running deficit and one of the reason is that they have hundreds if not thousands of drivers that are on standby; they just sit around and wait till they are needed and they got paid full wages. CTA is also not allow to hire part-timer per union agreement. Many people would love to drive buses around with training and it is MUCH cheaper than having thousands of full time stand by drivers. Also, for the past 10 years, there has not been much of increases of bus or driver but the administrative job has double if not triple.

2 United States, Teacher Union. We ALL agree that firing due to seniority is a very stupid and bad idea. However, union will NEVER give it up; it is basically the essence of union.... protect the older worker and fire the newer workers, or as accounting terms: LIFO. In my days in High School I seen my shares of crappy teacher and good teachers. Logically, the crappy teacher should be fire and replace with better one. Let be serious, during the WI fight, do you THINK the Union will agree to keeping their collective bargaining if they have to give up their seniority? My guess is no. Thus Teacher Union NEED to be dealt with.


Are Union truly defensible when they keep pulling shit like this?

 

[jonks]

<--your newsletter please! i want!

as to is union defendible, my miyagi say, if do right no can defend

 

[JS80]

need to be death with

hmm...

 

[Phokus]

"Union's power has gotten TOO powerful and need to be death with"

Hahahahahahaha, that implies unions have gotten more powerful than they were in the past. Hardly anyone's in a union anymore and they are conceding benefits. The American union has had a downward trajectory, not an upward one, as you seem to imply.

 

[dfuze]

FIFO? Wouldn't it be FILO that they are after, First In Last Out?

 

[IBMer]

The term is LIFO, Last in First out. Its an inventory system and also a concept used with STACKS in C.

 

[CrackRabbit]

English, motherfarker. Do you speak it?

 

[Xellos2099]

my bad, fixing it.

 

[SunnyD]

FIFO? Wouldn't it be FILO that they are after, First In Last Out?

I believe the proper term is LIFO, but same pickle no matter how you slice it.

 

[jonks]

First In Last Out?

That's the Malazan Bridgeburner motto.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Everyone is hating on the unions, are you corporate negotiators or something? Since when is it a given that corporations are always on the look out for what is best for the employees?

There is no way you trust a corporation THIS much where you can hand over your mind, body and soul without any reservation. Abusive companies are what led to the creation of unions.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I though with unions it was GINO

Garbage In, Never Out

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Everyone is hating on the unions, are you corporate negotiators or something? Since when is it a given that corporations are always on the look out for what is best for the employees?

There is no way you trust a corporation THIS much where you can hand over your mind, body and soul without any reservation. Abusive companies are what led to the creation of unions.

Abusive unions are what drove jobs overseas.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Abusive unions are what drove jobs overseas.

Profit seeking is what drove jobs overseas.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Profit seeking is what drove jobs overseas.

A business that makes no profit doesn't stay in business.

I've watched unions strike until the company had to file chapter 11 bankruptcy. Though in the end the company just regrouped and shifted all the work to two other plants in another state that weren't union. The work shifted but the workers who striked were not invited.

 

[werepossum]

Cut the man some slack, not everyone has English as a first language, some of the younger folks are raised (including schooling) with no emphasis on spelling, and his points were understandable.

I think unions are fine except for government (public sector) employees or where one union represents all employees of a particular sector. (Perhaps anti-trust provisions should apply to unions as well as to employers.) The only caveats to that would be safety related issues, such as firemen needing better coats or trucks, or policemen unable to get good body armor.

One thing though, unless and until we can establish results-based evaluations for retaining and releasing teachers, unions do provide some utility in preventing hiring and firing based purely on petty politics.

 

[jonks]

Cut the man some slack, not everyone has English as a first language, some of the younger folks are raised (including schooling) with no emphasis on spelling, and his points were understandable.

I think unions are fine except for government (public sector) employees or where one union represents all employees of a particular sector. (Perhaps anti-trust provisions should apply to unions as well as to employers.) The only caveats to that would be safety related issues, such as firemen needing better coats or trucks, or policemen unable to get good body armor.

One thing though, unless and until we can establish results-based evaluations for retaining and releasing teachers, unions do provide some utility in preventing hiring and firing based purely on petty politics.

It wasn't the spelling so much that called for mocking, it was the statement "Union's power has gotten TOO powerful and need to be dealt with" despite union power and membership at a 40 year nadir.

 

[werepossum]

It wasn't the spelling so much that called for mocking, it was the statement "Union's power has gotten TOO powerful and need to be dealt with" despite union power and membership at a 40 year nadir.

Union power and membership overall, yes. Union power and membership within the public sector, not at all near nadir. Union power and membership within the public sector, the only union power and membership that trouble me, are doing great.

 

[ElFenix]

I believe the proper term is LIFO, but same pickle no matter how you slice it.

i thought that was a kind of batter :hmm:

 

[Atreus21]

1. It's defensible.

2. I don't think unions need to be destroyed. I think they've gotten out of control. When you can force people to join your union, and then force the state to withdraw union dues from their paychecks...it's time for an ass-whooping. With employment, when coercion is involved over free-choice, I have an issue.

 

[jonks]

Union power and membership overall, yes. Union power and membership within the public sector, not at all near nadir. Union power and membership within the public sector, the only union power and membership that trouble me, are doing great.

point.

 

[sao123]

A business that makes no profit doesn't stay in business.

I've watched unions strike until the company had to file chapter 11 bankruptcy. Though in the end the company just regrouped and shifted all the work to two other plants in another state that weren't union. The work shifted but the workers who striked were not invited.

false.
businesses which break even stay in business.

 

[wuliheron]

Mommy, mommy, there's a commie under my bed. Quick, kill it before it escapes and breeds more!

 

[werepossum]

1. It's defensible.

2. I don't think unions need to be destroyed. I think they've gotten out of control. When you can force people to join your union, and then force the state to withdraw union dues from their paychecks...it's time for an ass-whooping. With employment, when coercion is involved over free-choice, I have an issue.

Good point. Some unions have gotten out of control, true. Others are working pretty well. Trade unions, for instance; in most of the jurisdictions in which I've designed projects, trade unions work just fine and deliver on average a superior product. We've had out of control unions in a few places (Oakdale, Minnesota springs to mind) but on balance, if I could specify all my projects as union-only I'd do so in a heartbeat.

Unions are groups of people. Like any people, if they get too much power it tends to corrupt.

point.

Thank you.

If I had my druthers we'd have few to no unions in the public sector and more in the private sector.

 

[Darwin333]

false.
businesses which break even stay in business.

Not unless they expect to become profitable in the near future.