Is this writer just bitter or does she have a point?

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
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Kay Hymowitz: The child-man
Kay Hymowitz: The child-man

Today's single young men hang out in a hormonal limbo between adolescence and adulthood


10:13 AM CST on Sunday, January 27, 2008

It's 1965, and you're a 26-year-old white guy. You have a factory job, or maybe you work for an insurance broker. Either way, you're married, probably have been for a few years now; you met your wife in high school, where she was in your sister's class. You've already got one kid, with another on the way. For now, you're renting an apartment in your parents' two-family house, but you're saving up for a three-bedroom ranch house in the next town. Yup, you're an adult!

Now meet the 21st-century you, also 26. You've finished college and work in a cubicle in a large Chicago financial-services firm. You live in an apartment with a few single guy friends. In your spare time, you play basketball with your buddies, download the latest indie songs from iTunes, have some fun with the Xbox 360, take a leisurely shower, massage some product into your hair and face ? and then it's off to bars and parties, where you meet, and often bed, girls of widely varied hues and sizes. Wife? Kids? House? Are you kidding?


JOE MORSE/Special Contributor Not so long ago, the average mid-twentysomething had achieved most of adulthood's milestones ? high school degree, financial independence, marriage and children. These days, he lingers ? happily ? in a new hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. Decades in unfolding, this limbo may not seem like news to many, but in fact it is to the early 21st century what adolescence was to the early 20th: a momentous sociological development of profound economic and cultural import.

It's time to state what is now obvious to legions of frustrated young women: The limbo doesn't bring out the best in young men.

With women, you could argue that adulthood is in fact emergent. Single women in their 20s and early 30s are joining an international New Girl Order, hyper-achieving in both school and an increasingly female-friendly workplace, while packing leisure hours with shopping, traveling and dining with friends. Single young males, or SYMs, by contrast, often seem to hang out in a playground of drinking, hooking up, playing Halo 3 and, in many cases, underachieving. With them, adulthood looks as though it's receding.

Freud famously asked: "What do women want?" Notice that he didn't ask what men wanted ? perhaps he thought he'd figured that one out. But that's a question that ad people, media execs and cultural entrepreneurs have pondered a lot in recent years. They're particularly interested in single young men, for two reasons: There are a lot more of them than before, and they tend to have some extra change.

Consider: In 1970, 69 percent of 25-year-old and 85 percent of 30-year-old white men were married; in 2000, only 33 percent and 58 percent were, respectively. And the percentage of young guys tying the knot is declining as you read this. Census Bureau data show that the median age of marriage among men rose from 26.8 in 2000 to 27.5 in 2006 ? a dramatic demographic shift for such a short time period.

That adds up to tens of millions more young men blissfully free of mortgages, wives and child-care bills. Historically, marketers have found this group an "elusive audience" ? the phrase is permanently affixed to "men between 18 and 34" in adspeak ? largely immune to the pleasures of magazines and television, as well as to shopping expeditions for the products advertised there.

A signal cultural moment came in April 1997, when Maxim, a popular British "lad magazine," hit American shores. Maxim plastered covers and features with pouty-lipped, tousled-haired pinups in lacy underwear and, in case that didn't do the trick, block-lettered promises of sex! lust! naughty! And it worked.

What really set Maxim apart from other men's mags was its voice. It was the sound of guys hanging around the Animal House living room. Maxim asked the SYM what he wanted and learned that he didn't want to grow up. And now the Maxim child-man voice has gone mainstream. You're that 26-year-old who wants sophomoric fun and macho action? Now the culture has a groaning table of entertainment with your name on it.


That sound you hear is women not laughing. Oh, some women get a kick out of child-men and their frat/fart jokes. But for many, the child-man is either an irritating mystery or a source of heartbreak. In contemporary female writing and conversation, the words "immature" and "men" seem united in perpetuity.

Naturally, women wonder: How did this perverse creature come to be? The most prevalent theory comes from feminist-influenced academics and cultural critics, who view dude media as symptoms of backlash, a masculinity crisis. Men feel threatened by female empowerment, these thinkers argue, and in their anxiety, they cling to outdated roles.

Insofar as the new guy media reflect a backlash against feminism, they're part of the much larger story of men's long, uneasy relationship with bourgeois order. In A Man's Place, historian John Tosh locates male resistance to bourgeois domesticity in the early 19th century, when middle-class expectations for men began to shift away from the patriarchal aloofness of the bad old days.

Under the newer bourgeois regime, the home was to be a haven in a heartless world, in which affection and intimacy were guiding virtues. But in Mr. Tosh's telling, it didn't take long before men vented frustrations with bourgeois domestication: They went looking for excitement and male camaraderie in empire building, in adventure novels and in going to "the club."

By the early 20th century, the emerging mass market in the U.S. offered new outlets for the virile urges that sat awkwardly in the bourgeois parlor; hence titles like Field & Stream and Man's Adventure, as well as steamier fare like Escapade and Caper . When television sets came on the market in the late 1940s, it was the airing of heavyweight fights and football games that led Dad to make the big purchase; to this day, sports events ? the battlefield made civilized ? glue him to the Barcalounger when he should be folding the laundry.

But this history suggests an uncomfortable fact about the new SYM: He's immature because he can be. We can argue endlessly about whether "masculinity" is natural or constructed ? whether men are innately promiscuous, restless and slobby or socialized to be that way ? but there's no denying the lesson of today's media marketplace: Give young men a choice between serious drama on the one hand, and Victoria's Secret models, battling cyborgs, exploding toilets and the NFL on the other, and it's the models, cyborgs, toilets and football by a mile.

For whatever reason, adolescence appears to be the young man's default state, proving what anthropologists have discovered in cultures everywhere: It is marriage and children that turn boys into men. Now that the SYM can put off family into the hazily distant future, he can ? and will ? try to stay a child-man. Not only is no one asking that today's twenty- or thirtysomething become a responsible husband and father ? that is, grow up ? but a freewheeling marketplace gives him everything he needs to settle down in pig's heaven indefinitely.

Now, you could argue that the motley crew of Maxim, Comedy Central and Halo 3 aren't much to worry about, that extended adolescence is what the word implies: a temporary stage. Most guys have lots of other things going on and will eventually settle down. Men know the difference between entertainment and real life. At any rate, like gravity, growing up happens; nature has rules.

That's certainly a hope driving the sharpest of recent child-man entertainments, Judd Apatow's hit movie Knocked Up. What sets Knocked Up apart from, say, Old School, is that it invites the audience to enjoy the SYM's immaturity even while insisting on its feebleness. The potheaded 23-year-old Ben Stone accidentally impregnates Alison, a gorgeous stranger he was lucky enough to score at a bar. He is clueless about what to do when she decides to have the baby, not because he's a "badass" ? actually, he has a big heart ? but because he dwells among social retards. In the end, though, Ben understands that he needs to grow up. He gets a job and an apartment and learns to love Alison and the baby. This is a comedy, after all.


The important question that Mr. Apatow's comedy deals with only obliquely is what extended living as a child-man does to a guy ? and to the women he collides with along the way.

For the problem with child-men is that they're not very promising husbands and fathers. They suffer from a proverbial "fear of commitment," another way of saying that they can't stand to think of themselves as permanently attached to one woman. Sure, they have girlfriends; many are even willing to move in with them. But cohabiting can be just another Peter Pan delaying tactic. Women tend to see cohabiting as a potential path to marriage; men view it as another place to hang out or, as Barbara Dafoe Whitehead observes in Why There Are No Good Men Left, a way to "get the benefits of a wife without shouldering the reciprocal obligations of a husband."

And here's what may be the deepest existential problem with the child-man ? a tendency to avoid not just marriage but any deep attachments. This is British writer Nick Hornby's central insight in his novel About a Boy. The book's anti-hero, Will, is an SYM whose life is as empty of passion as of responsibility. He has no self apart from pop-culture effluvia, a fact that the author symbolizes by having the jobless 36-year-old live off the residuals of a popular Christmas song written by his late father. Mr. Hornby shows how the media-saturated limbo of contemporary guyhood makes it easy to fill your days without actually doing anything.

Will's unemployment is part of a more general passionlessness. To pick up women, for instance, he pretends to have a son and joins a single-parent organization; the plight of the single mothers means nothing to him. For Will, women are simply fleshy devices that dispense sex, and sex is just another form of entertainment, a "fantastic carnal alternative to drink, drugs and a great night out, but nothing much more than that."

The superficiality, indolence and passionlessness evoked in Mr. Hornby's novels haven't triggered any kind of cultural transformation. The SYM doesn't read much, remember, and he certainly doesn't read anything prescribing personal transformation. The child-man may be into self-mockery; self-reflection is something else entirely.

That's too bad. Young men especially need a culture that can help them define worthy aspirations.

Adults don't emerge. They're made.

Link
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
i'm not reading.

sounds bitter and long winded.


much like women.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
What happened between 1965 and now? the Feminist movement.

edit: answer to the question is she's bitter.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
Originally posted by: BigJ
And in 1965 she would shut her damn mouth and get back in the kitchen.

holy shit bigj, are you trying to get me fired from work lol
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
I didn't read all of it but from what I gather this can be thrown right back at her with women. They are the same as she is describing men in this article.
 

zig3695

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2007
1,240
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0
my gf cooks and cleans. i make money. call it oldschool or whatever but it works pretty damn good.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
She is completely full of sh!t. Perpetual adolescence is an issue but it's an issue for both men and women. Women are just as bad as men.

You and only you are responsible for how you invest your time and how you build your life.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
From the article:

When television sets came on the market in the late 1940s, it was the airing of heavyweight fights and football games that led Dad to make the big purchase; to this day, sports events ? the battlefield made civilized ? glue him to the Barcalounger when he should be folding the laundry.

This article = fail.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
2/3 of the pharmacists my wife works with are single women, aged 25-35, and make a boatload of money.

They have just as much fun as the boys do. Probably more so.

Women joining the workforce and making their own career has eliminated the necessity of a man to provide for them. They don't want to stay at home and crank out kids like they did for the past how many centuries.

So the men don't have to grow up and take care of somebody else. The women don't have to grow up and take care of somebody else. Both sides are unburdended by a lot of baggage and responsibility.

It's most certainly not a one sided issue.
 

sonambulo

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2004
4,777
1
0
$20 says the author is ugly or has no tits.


edit: and a quick search proves me right. YES.

edit 2: she is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute? OH WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT
 

Bibble

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2006
1,293
1
0
As a soon to be 20 year old college student, I can only wish to live such an exciting/promiscuous lifestyle as that described in this article. But now you'll have to excuse me, I have some drinking/halo 3 to take care of.
 

Agentbolt

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2004
3,340
1
0
Psshaw, mid-20's women are pillars of responsibility, maturity, and respectability! You guys are just threatened that this gal is pointing out why women have seized control of most of the world's assets, finances, and power from shiftless, irresponsible men.

OH WAIT.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: maddogchen
What happened between 1965 and now? the Feminist movement.

edit: answer to the question is she's bitter.

Agreed. You want equal? Well you got it honey. Can't have it both ways.

Now who's up for some Halo 3?
 

cdmccool

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2006
1,041
0
0
Originally posted by: sonambulo
$20 says the author is ugly or has no tits.

LOL

And to actually contribute, she sounds bitter to me. "Become the way I think you should be or you're a child-man, immature, and you need to grow up."
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Cliff notes for those too lazy to read the whole article:

"I'm a strong, empowered feminist and I'm mad as hell that men actively avoid me."
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
I think she somewhat has a point--nobody in their early 20's can really qualify for being adult with the often juvenile attitude they have--adulthood is responsibility, banging hoes doesn't make you a man--it makes you a horny male, but hardly a man, or semi-adult one for that matter.

I think pointing out the 1965 factor is a red herring, because she isn't praising the 1960's, she's pointing out the differences that both culturally and technologically seperate us from that time. Were those times better? Depends. People certainly seemed to have more responsibility, got their lives on the road, etc. whereas nowadays, we tend to get bogged down in school.

I think schooling is a huge problem...why are schools so damned long? 2 years for high school, then into college, and out into the world. Most of the shit you learn junior/senior year in HS is useless anyway unless you want to pursue that study in college, in which case you SHOULD have just graduated 2 years earlier...oh wait.


So no, I'm not defending this woman, but I'm pointing out some rather erroneous red herrings and assumptions made.
 
Jun 19, 2004
10,860
1
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Men in their mid twenties back in the day didn't have the female of our day to put up with.

How does she expect us to stack up to that notion of hers when women compatible for that type of setup just really don't exist anymore.

Wome wanted their independance and ability to date around. They also are getting married at a far older age now, if they marry at all. This "Man-child" syndrome she speaks of is only a logical answer to this new age woman.

Did she expect us to just stand around with our dicks in our hands?
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,778
1,953
126
Yeah, there aren't a lot of horribly irresponsible 20-something women out there who may have managed to crank out a few kids of widely varied hues and sizes. Maybe if American women made it worth-while to actually marry them, more people might get married.

It's a two-way street, darlin'.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
No, women want it all; the power, the money, the promiscuity... but when they hear their biological clocks ticking, and haven't really done much to prepare for motherhood, they realize that all that power and money and promiscuity are for naught, hence the article.

Yes, she's bitter.