Is this what a subwoofer sounds like?

[asintu]

Hi!
I got a 2-speakers-and-a-subwoofer set

Just wanna check three things make sure are normal:

1. When I turn the volume on my little speaker up, the volume of the subwoofer goes up. I thought the subwoofer had it's own volume control for this.
2. When I turn the subwoofer volume control up...i mostly get more bass and stuff...not a lot of words..like from the small speakers
3. In general..the subwoofer..even with it's volume to the max...sounds maybe i dunno half as loud as the speakers (mainly bass as I said before). Is this ok?

Thanx!

 

[speed01]

Ummm... subwoofers are mainly for bass. You turn up the volume of the sub to adjust how loud you want the bass, then turn up the main volume on the small speaker for overall loudness... To answer your question, yes it is ok.

Speed

 

[asintu]

thanx!

 

[Wuzup101]

Yup everything sounds like it's working correctly. As speed01 stated, subs are for bass and nothing else. They use a large low frequency speaker that is able to play the sounds that those little speakers are not capeable of playing. This way you get the full range of sound. You will never hear words comming out of a sub unless something is really screwed up.

 

[Wuzup101]

DBL Post...

 

[imported_rod]

I've got a similar 2.1 logitech setup, and that's how mine works. Sounds like everything is alright to me.

Note: If your sound sounds a bit distorted, try reucing your volume output levels in windows. The "WAV out" level on my PC was set to full by default, and when I plugged in my speakers, they sounded like shit. But reducing the level made them sound beautiful.

RoD

 

[phisrow]

Only cheap and ghastly "subwoofers" actually play any midrange. You tend to feel a proper sub more with your sternum than with your eardrums.

 

[alcoholbob]

I disagree, better subs can play the lower midrange if you forced them to do so through adjustable crossovers. There's not much to adjust on a cheap subwoofer, most of their xovers too high (120hz or higher, maybe even 180) though to make up for the fact that your satellites have drivers under 4".

 

[Tu13erhead]

I disagree. A good sub plays the lowest of frequencies and that's it. I want my subwoofer hitting with the beat of the music, not playing the melody.

 

[masteraleph]

Actually, Tu13erhead and Kobe67 are making somewhat compatible points- Kobe is saying that subs could pull it off, Tut that they shouldn't.

Tut is certainly correct. Then again, "good" speakers should have their midrange at a minimum of 4", more preferably upwards of 5. Then again, a sub can't really physically play bass unless it's at least 8", though 10-12" seems to be the sweet spot. Larger subs could hypothetically play lower, but once you get above 12" you have to be really well constructed to keep the bass tight.

 

[CrispyFried]

Basically, most computer subs double as regular woofers and subs. True subs are usually 30-50 hz and down, woofers from 30-50 up to what, 500hz or so, where the midrange driver comes in.

Its a compromise, which is why you may hear some things from the sub that usually should come from the mains. Unless you want a 100+ lb footwarmer under your desk and 50 lbs of bookshelf speakers around your monitor, most computer setups do a decent job.

asintu, the volume control on the sub is just to balance the sub to the mains, once its set you ignore it, both the sub and mains should go up and down via the main volume control. For best bass, put the sub againt a wall, or better yet, in a corner.

 

[PurdueRy]

Size of the driver past a certain point does not affect how well it will perform. Just because someone has a 12" sub does not mean it will perform any better than a 8-10". Lots of work goes into the construction of a speaker. If you think a speaker is just a cone in a box you should read up.

It all depends what they are trying to accomplish. You can get a 6.5" speaker to play down to 40 Hz or so, sometimes lower. It all depends on the specs of the speaker driver itself. Most computer subs I would say probably only get down to the mid 30's Hz before they trail off. The ones that use smaller drivers that are tuned lower would trail off even higher.

There is NO perfect size for any specific type of speaker. a 3" speaker can handle midrange perfectly as long as the woofer can play up to where it comes in.

What was said previously about subs playing some midrange is absolutely true and has to do with how YOU set it versus how well it is made. For computers, the crossover is most often set in windows itself. If this is set at 200 Hz, the sub will definitely be playing some midrange. Even at 120 Hz you will hear SOME voice parts being played.

Speaker design is a balance between the drivers that are being used. You can't use a 10" driver with a tweeter and expect to play the full range of frequencies at a near flat level. This is why you see 3 way designs. That way you can have a woofer to handle usually the 60-1000 Hz range, and a midrange to handle up to where the tweeter comes in. But it all depends on the frequency response charts of each individual woofer.

Subs depend alot on TUNING of the box itself. They are often ported as this increases the low frequency range it can play at the expense of a more steep roll off. It also makes a difference somewhat in the "tightness" of the bass. Computer subs are generally not flat in terms of freq. response. This is the case for two reasons(mainly). Most gamers just want to hear booms of the explosions in their games and want the speaker system to be decently cheap. As you get into more expensive drivers the will have much more flat characteristics and be able to play down to the true end of human hearing(20Hz).

Thats enough rant from me...

 

[alcoholbob]

Actually since volume is just a function of moving air, there are physical limitations to how far down a driver can go within spec before the volume falls off a cliff. Of course you can get a 6.5" driver to play down to 40hz, my Athena AS-B1s have a 5.5" driver and I can hear the 20hz test tone (at about -10 to -15dB) whereas I can't even hear the 20hz test tone (or anything below 28hz, and even then, it's about a 30-40 db loss) on a Z-680 subwoofer, and thats a 8" passive radiator.

The reason I can hear bass that low on my Athenas are because they are huge bookshelves (as much internal volume or more than my Logitech sub) with a large rear port.

We are talking about satellite speakers here obivously, if our boy here wanted to buy 3" driver speakers with the size of his subwoofer he would have, but he bought a sub/sat system. The larger the drivers on the sat, the lower they will go. 3" driver may stay within spec of +/- 8dB from 200 - 13k, but as low as 180hz it will nosedive (on speakers the size of conventional satellites). Optimally you don't want your sub to play anything above 120hz, since it the midrange becomes directional and the sub begins sounding like a speaker instead of an invisible bass boost for your speakers. You really need at least a 3.5" or 4" driver to accomplish this, particularly if you are limited to a small satellite enclosure.

Quote from you: "You can't use a 10" driver with a tweeter and expect to play the full range of frequencies at a near flat level"

I suppose not, 10" drivers are rare if ever seen in regular speakers. Plenty of 8" drivers in floorstanders though, and many (including the AS-F1 and AS-F2) remain +/- 4db until 13k where they start spiking a bit (although they are relatively, cheap speakers). What's to say you can't use a 10" driver with a tweeter? Your basic 10" driver begins dropping off at 2k to 2.5k. Most tweeters are crossed over at 2 or 2.2KHz or so. I'm not sure why you made this statement, because it makes no sense. There's no reason to cross over at 1k when the driver has not physically dipped yet, otherwise you create an excess of volume between the 1k and 2.2k range. That's NOT a smooth FR graph, clearly the opposite of what you want. Sorry, your "solution" doesn't work.

Three-way systems are sold as premium sound systems, but the reality is you can easily make a two-way sound as good as a three-way. In fact it's much harder the other way around, since a third driver forces you to create an additional crossover point. It's hard work finding two crossovers for three drivers because where they start dipping may not be optimal. They are hard to make properly, that's why they are expensive. Three drivers is an additional driver that has its own characteristic (assuming its flat all the way through) high end and low end where it dips down and for all 3 to work seamlessly. You'd be hard fought to find a three-way (bookshelf) under 2k or much more for a floorstander. At that price, two-ways are extremely competitive in quality, and sonically, most of the price of a 3-way is TRYING TO MAKE IT FLAT COMPARED TO A TWO-WAY. If you don't understand how much it complicates the frequency response curve by adding an additional driver, then I'm sorry for you.

Computer subs have all kinds of problems, the least of all is the flatness of the response, rather the quality of the enclosures. It's just a passive radiator doing 120hz and below, it's not a lot of range to cover, so I'd be surprise if they weren't relative flat response curves. The Z-680 sub for example are in a very thin enclosure, less MDF than even most bookshelf speakers. The enclosure is improperly braced, but if you stuff the port you'll lose some of that boominess. The particular problem of the Z-680 driver is that it spikes at 60hz. I have it running off an external EQ with it at -10dB, so its OK for me, but I'm probably gonna upgrade to something from HSU or Velodyne soon.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Kobe67
Actually since volume is just a function of moving air, there are physical limitations to how far down a driver can go within spec before the volume falls off a cliff. Of course you can get a 6.5" driver to play down to 40hz, my Athena AS-B1s have a 5.5" driver and I can hear the 20hz test tone (at about -10 to -15dB) whereas I can't even hear the 20hz test tone (or anything below 28hz, and even then, it's about a 30-40 db loss) on a Z-680 subwoofer, and thats a 8" passive radiator.

The reason I can hear bass that low on my Athenas are because they are huge bookshelves (as much internal volume or more than my Logitech sub) with a large rear port.

We are talking about satellite speakers here obivously, if our boy here wanted to buy 3" driver speakers with the size of his subwoofer he would have, but he bought a sub/sat system. The larger the drivers on the sat, the lower they will go. 3" driver may stay within spec of +/- 8dB from 200 - 13k, but as low as 180hz it will nosedive (on speakers the size of conventional satellites). Optimally you don't want your sub to play anything above 120hz, since it the midrange becomes directional and the sub begins sounding like a speaker instead of an invisible bass boost for your speakers. You really need at least a 3.5" or 4" driver to accomplish this, particularly if you are limited to a small satellite enclosure.

Quote from you: "You can't use a 10" driver with a tweeter and expect to play the full range of frequencies at a near flat level"

I suppose not, 10" drivers are rare if ever seen in regular speakers. Plenty of 8" drivers in floorstanders though, and many (including the AS-F1 and AS-F2) remain +/- 4db until 13k where they start spiking a bit (although they are relatively, cheap speakers). What's to say you can't use a 10" driver with a tweeter? Your basic 10" driver begins dropping off at 2k to 2.5k. Most tweeters are crossed over at 2 or 2.2KHz or so. I'm not sure why you made this statement, because it makes no sense. There's no reason to cross over at 1k when the driver has not physically dipped yet, otherwise you create an excess of volume between the 1k and 2.2k range. That's NOT a smooth FR graph, clearly the opposite of what you want. Sorry, your "solution" doesn't work.

Three-way systems are sold as premium sound systems, but the reality is you can easily make a two-way sound as good as a three-way. In fact it's much harder the other way around, since a third driver forces you to create an additional crossover point. It's hard work finding two crossovers for three drivers because where they start dipping may not be optimal. They are hard to make properly, that's why they are expensive. Three drivers is an additional driver that has its own characteristic (assuming its flat all the way through) high end and low end where it dips down and for all 3 to work seamlessly. You'd be hard fought to find a three-way (bookshelf) under 2k or much more for a floorstander. At that price, two-ways are extremely competitive in quality, and sonically, most of the price of a 3-way is TRYING TO MAKE IT FLAT COMPARED TO A TWO-WAY. If you don't understand how much it complicates the frequency response curve by adding an additional driver, then I'm sorry for you.

Computer subs have all kinds of problems, the least of all is the flatness of the response, rather the quality of the enclosures. It's just a passive radiator doing 120hz and below, it's not a lot of range to cover, so I'd be surprise if they weren't relative flat response curves. The Z-680 sub for example are in a very thin enclosure, less MDF than even most bookshelf speakers. The enclosure is improperly braced, but if you stuff the port you'll lose some of that boominess. The particular problem of the Z-680 driver is that it spikes at 60hz. I have it running off an external EQ with it at -10dB, so its OK for me, but I'm probably gonna upgrade to something from HSU or Velodyne soon.

woah look at you coming in here all high and mighty.

I challenge you to go to http://www.tymphany.com/prodvifa.php and find me one 10" driver that is not has not severly dropped off by 2K Hz. If you do, then you obviously don't understand that if you want this point to be the point at which the driver is not heard. Unless you are assuming a perfect crossover point 10" drivers should be crossed at about 1K. Speaker experts like JonMarsh at HTguide.com recommend crossing some 6" speakers at not higher than 1400 Hz. Why? Because it avoids resonant harmonics or the driver while easily staying in the flat range of the driver.

It creates an excess of volume? if you cross both at a point where they are still flat with a linkwitz riley filter....no...it wouldn't. I don't know where you found that info. You don't have to cross at the point where the driver starts to fall off. In fact it really would be better to cross before that point.

I never said that 3-way systems were easy to build compared to 2 way systems. Of course this complicated crossover design. But using a driver bigger than 8" it really becomes a necessity to use 3 drivers instead of 2.

I don't understand why you came in here and decided to attack my post, when nothing I said is wrong. I was trying to keep relatively difficult topic easy and insightful. But please back off and just add info to the thread instead of trying to bring down posts that are technically accurate. Thank you.

 

[alcoholbob]

Lol, and how does this show a 10" and a tweeter can't work? You just answered your own question, to cross them over lower. So that's clearly not the reason why 3-ways exist.

 

[PurdueRy]

um no. Because with a 10" you would have to cross it way to low for any tweeter to be able to faithfully reproduce sound. We haven't even gotten into noise that a 10" driver would generate in upper frequencies. Look at the speakers you have. Sure they can play to 20Hz and still be audible witha 15-20db drop but at that point the distortion generated is very high. I don't know why you are trying to make the point to use a 10" driver in a 2 way design as this has nothing to do with the OP's Post. But there is many reasons why a 10" driver in a two way design is not a good idea.

 

[alcoholbob]

I never said it was a good idea either, I don't see many floorstanders even with 10" drivers, YOU brought the topic up, and now are trying to put that blame on me. You already insulted me and demanded I take the high road, and now you say I created the topic.

Lol, you are way too much humor.

 

[Emultra]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
You will never hear words comming out of a sub unless something is really screwed up.

LoL, true...that would be weird.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Kobe67
I never said it was a good idea either, I don't see many floorstanders even with 10" drivers, YOU brought the topic up, and now are trying to put that blame on me. You already insulted me and demanded I take the high road, and now you say I created the topic.

Lol, you are way too much humor.

ugh you make no sense. I posted valid examples to try to help the OP understand what larger drivers do and you call me on it saying that I am wrong. I explain all my reasoning and now you say that Its all my fault for having to explain it all. If you could have just contributed without trying to tear apart my post there would have been no explanation necessary. Deal with it.

 

[alcoholbob]

OK Mister Red Herring. Oh yeah, you make no sense either.