Is this truly why taxes are so high?

[Double Trouble]

WTF is wrong with some of you people? I think we can all agree that people in need deserve help, and those who's disability prevents them from earning an income should get disability payments.

There are lots of people that rip the taxpayer off, and some of you guys come here with some song and dance about offshoring, trickle down, job creators or some other horseshit?? This is fraud and theft. These fraudsters are scum.

Unless someone can come up with a logical explanation for why there are exponentially more people legitimately disabled now than just a couple of decades ago, it would seem the only explanation is disability fraud is becoming the new welfare.

 

[Jhhnn]

Okay, defending fraud was the incorrect choice of words, they deny that fraud exists on any type of widespread basis.

Widespread meaning what, exactly? That it will inevitably occur in a small % of cases? No doubt. More than that? The burden of proof is on you.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I agree. The real issue though isn't fraud. These charts represent a new form unemployment has taken.

It all goes back to big money politics, failed immigration policies, combined with trade policies that have decimated american workers for 20 years and resulted the decline of the middle class. Those are the real underlying issues.

Mmmm, not quite.

It goes back more towards society. What was once an American concept of being proud to work - proud to serve - proud to bring food to the table.... Is now "whats the easiest way I can do it?"

People used to have shame. People used to feel ashamed to sit their fat ass on a mobile cart and parade around Walmart. Now it doesn't even phase them thanks to the PC culture that coddles them. In reality, ANY real person would feel ashamed doing such acts when you are fully capable of walking. So the more we accept these things, the more fraud that is going to occur. I'm sure a lot of the fraud is actually people that LEGITIMATELY THINK they are disabled. In reality their mind has obviously just been warped to the point of irrationality.

 

[Jhhnn]

WTF is wrong with some of you people? I think we can all agree that people in need deserve help, and those who's disability prevents them from earning an income should get disability payments.

There are lots of people that rip the taxpayer off, and some of you guys come here with some song and dance about offshoring, trickle down, job creators or some other horseshit?? This is fraud and theft. These fraudsters are scum.

Unless someone can come up with a logical explanation for why there are exponentially more people legitimately disabled now than just a couple of decades ago, it would seem the only explanation is disability fraud is becoming the new welfare.

It means the demand for labor has fallen off just as Boomers are approaching but not yet achieving retirement age. It's not like many people opt for the gravy train of an average of $1166/mo SSDI unless they're really jammed or unless they're at an age where they're banged up & also collect a pension.

Oh, and "exponentially more" is bullshit.

 

[shady28]

Mmmm, not quite.

It goes back more towards society. What was once an American concept of being proud to work - proud to serve - proud to bring food to the table.... Is now "whats the easiest way I can do it?"

People used to have shame. People used to feel ashamed to sit their fat ass on a mobile cart and parade around Walmart. Now it doesn't even phase them thanks to the PC culture that coddles them. In reality, ANY real person would feel ashamed doing such acts when you are fully capable of walking. So the more we accept these things, the more fraud that is going to occur. I'm sure a lot of the fraud is actually people that LEGITIMATELY THINK they are disabled. In reality their mind has obviously just been warped to the point of irrationality.

Well, what you say may be partly true but it certainly isn't the whole picture. Like most problems, this one is multi-faceted.

Think about these in relation to people filing for SSDI :

• Minimum wage is now about 15% below its peak in real-world dollars.
• SSDI pays about what you can make in a 40hr week at minimum wage.
• It costs money to work - transportation being a major expense at low wages.
• Employers are penalized by Obamacare for having full time employees (so min wage or low wage jobs are not likely to be full time).
• Illegals take a big chunk of minimum, and sometimes sub-minimum wage jobs (and they aren't all Mexicans, look at the labor issue Tesla is having with $5/hr labor imported from eastern Europe into CA).
• More and more companies are laying off / offshoring people as they enter their 50s, people who are difficult to employ or make career changes.
• Fewer and fewer companies offer pensions, meaning there isn't a big incentive to go with a company and stick with it for a career or big part of a career. Why bother working your way up (also related the above bullet about 50+ year old layoffs).

All of this plays right back into problems caused by policy decisions and trade agreements made decades ago. It also plays right into the forces that are shaping politics, much more so than transgender rights, BLM, gun rights, and other such drivel that MSM and establishment politicians use to distract the easily distracted.

 

[Zorba]

Widespread meaning what, exactly? That it will inevitably occur in a small % of cases? No doubt. More than that? The burden of proof is on you.

I'd call even a few percent widespread. Based on my anecdotal evidence of people I know it is far higher than that, especially on VA disability.

But considering you believe that not having an attractive skillset for an employer makes you disabled, I am not going to waste my time trying to find evidence for you. The other problem is when widespread fraud isn't investigated, you can't then point to the lack of investigation as proof of no fraud.

Edit: The shear numbers really speak for themselves: http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/#1c944c65122b

“We know there are individuals who will purposely withhold or fabricate information to collect government benefits they are not entitled to receive”. Those are the words of the Office of the Inspector General from their hearing on “combating disability waste, fraud, and abuse”. The Senate conducted their own investigation which concluded that fully one quarter of all disability insurance claims decisions were flawed, improperly addressing

 

[Jhhnn]

I'd call even a few percent widespread. Based on my anecdotal evidence of people I know it is far higher than that, especially on VA disability.

But considering you believe that not having an attractive skillset for an employer makes you disabled, I am not going to waste my time trying to find evidence for you. The other problem is when widespread fraud isn't investigated, you can't then point to the lack of investigation as proof of no fraud.

Edit: The shear numbers really speak for themselves: http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/#1c944c65122b

Citing congressional investigation with a congress that managed to investigate Benghazi for years lends no credibility to your argument.

I mean, Duh. Just duh.

 

[Zorba]

Citing congressional investigation with a congress that managed to investigate Benghazi for years lends no credibility to your argument.

I mean, Duh. Just duh.

I'm sorry it isn't from mediamatters or vox. But I also know you will never accept any source that disagrees with you. Since you write off the entire article and all the facts in it, because congress made one claim in it.

Here is another one: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21640367-many-disabled-people-can-work-washington-prevents-them-ruinous-cost-not-working

BTW: My issue isn't just pure fraud, i.e. claiming you are blind when you are not, but also claiming that you are too disabled to work because of "pain" or "depression" but have no problem doing anything else. I work with quite a few veterans, many of which are "100% disabled" but have no problem maintaining full time employment, hunt, fish, work on cars, do normal house work, some of them do heavy remodeling, etc. But they all get a fat check every month for being "disabled."

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm sorry it isn't from mediamatters or vox. But I also know you will never accept any source that disagrees with you. Since you write off the entire article and all the facts in it, because congress made one claim in it.

Here is another one: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21640367-many-disabled-people-can-work-washington-prevents-them-ruinous-cost-not-working

BTW: My issue isn't just pure fraud, i.e. claiming you are blind when you are not, but also claiming that you are too disabled to work because of "pain" or "depression" but have no problem doing anything else. I work with quite a few veterans, many of which are "100% disabled" but have no problem maintaining full time employment, hunt, fish, work on cars, do normal house work, some of them do heavy remodeling, etc. But they all get a fat check every month for being "disabled."

My issue is that critics of the system seem to think that there's some other way to feed the population & keep them living indoors dependent upon the Jerb Creators when the Jerb Creators don't give a rat's ass about that.

Let's say that all the people you think are fraudsters get kicked out of the various programs. Now what? It's not like the Jerb Creators have a place for them, is it?

I didn't question the source, the article, but rather their reliance on congress for information that's not likely to be unbiased at all. Repubs' attack on the social welfare system is ongoing & relentless even though they have no viable alternative. Jerb Creators? Shee-it. Their greed is why we need a social welfare system at all.

 

[JockoJohnson]

My issue is that critics of the system seem to think that there's some other way to feed the population & keep them living indoors dependent upon the Jerb Creators when the Jerb Creators don't give a rat's ass about that.

Let's say that all the people you think are fraudsters get kicked out of the various programs. Now what? It's not like the Jerb Creators have a place for them, is it?

I didn't question the source, the article, but rather their reliance on congress for information that's not likely to be unbiased at all. Repubs' attack on the social welfare system is ongoing & relentless even though they have no viable alternative. Jerb Creators? Shee-it. Their greed is why we need a social welfare system at all.

Just so I am clear, you are fine with people tapping into SSDI if they run out of unemployment benefits. Correct?

Also, are you against the "free" trade agreements with us and other countries? Outsourcing jobs isn't a one-party issue. Both parties seem to be all for it and it isn't as easy as "Just go get training in another field".

 

[Rakehellion]

Okay, defending fraud was the incorrect choice of words, they deny that fraud exists on any type of widespread basis.

Provide some evidence other than one guy's anecdote.

 

[sm625]

Sure the government gives a lot of money away in the name of disability fraud. I've known people who committed such acts. Keyword being known, past tense. But the real key is that the government gives 50 times more money to single moms so they can create more spawn. Then these spawn infect the education of all the children so the whole country gets dumber, which is an utterly massive tax of even more epic proportions.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just so I am clear, you are fine with people tapping into SSDI if they run out of unemployment benefits. Correct?

Also, are you against the "free" trade agreements with us and other countries? Outsourcing jobs isn't a one-party issue. Both parties seem to be all for it and it isn't as easy as "Just go get training in another field".

Please. I'm saying that a lot of people who were employable in 2007 are not employable today & that a lot of people who are legitimately disabled worked anyway when they were employable.

Outsourcing & trade? That's kinda like the lost cause of the Civil War. In that context, we need to find different ways other than Jerb Creator promises to provide Americans with the benefits of the greatest society the human race has ever created, that being our own. This isn't India or Pakistan but a lot of wrong headed thinking has set some conservatives into thinking that's the way it really should be. Not that they realize what they're doing. This isn't Jamestown, either, where everybody needed to work to insure group survival.

I don't begrudge the unlucky what little they can wrangle out of the system. I save that for the lucky few who manage to wrangle way more than truly sane people ever wanted.

 

[Jhhnn]

Sure the government gives a lot of money away in the name of disability fraud. I've known people who committed such acts. Keyword being known, past tense. But the real key is that the government gives 50 times more money to single moms so they can create more spawn. Then these spawn infect the education of all the children so the whole country gets dumber, which is an utterly massive tax of even more epic proportions.

Haters gotta hate.