I managed to get a job the day I went out looking. Admittedly, it is hard, dirty work (roofing). I had no prior experience in roofing, didnt know anyone in the industry or at the company. I just called after seeing a classified ad, showed up after the owner got back from the job site, interviewed for about 5 minutes, got hired.
Now, it isnt a career, but it is a job. It pays fairly well, but... you definitely earn your $$. It'll let me save up some money for spring semester. It does provide health and dental insurance. When most people say they cant find a job, what they generally mean is they cannot find a job that is up to their standards. You might not find a job that you like, but you'll find a job.
Now, it isnt a career, but it is a job. It pays fairly well, but... you definitely earn your $$. It'll let me save up some money for spring semester. It does provide health and dental insurance. When most people say they cant find a job, what they generally mean is they cannot find a job that is up to their standards. You might not find a job that you like, but you'll find a job.
Networking is still the name of the game. The chances of getting in via traditional job apps seem frightfully slim based on certain stats.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
Since you are a recent graduate, have you tried your school's career center? Sometimes they can hook you up with something. I'm probably going to be in the same position you are in, since I am graduating soon with a CS degree too and my experience is mostly in the IT field, with barely any software development outside of the classroom. Let me know how the job hunt goes.
It took me a year to find my first co-op. I did C# and SQL development their for a while. Then I got another co-op doing mostly Java and C++ development on Solaris for an FAA/Military contractor. Hopefully, It will be relatively easy for me to find something by the time I am done in February.
Good luck, and just keep looking. Go to your school's career office or website and start getting contact information for any companies where you want to work. Send out your resume and make follow up calls.
Good luck, and just keep looking. Go to your school's career office or website and start getting contact information for any companies where you want to work. Send out your resume and make follow up calls.
Two words:
Temp Agency
I know those places generally have bad reputations (and I've yet to find a company where it's not deserved), but they're an outstanding means to landing a decent entry-level (or slightly better) position. I have no degree and only three years of true professional experience, and yet I managed to land a position with a fortune 500 company as the sole administrator of a system that manages over $400 million a year in trade spending. I got the job because I busted my ass as a $12/hr temp for several months, made my connections within the company, and showed them what I was capable of.
Short of hard core programming, IT Help Desk, and network infrastructure positions, there are very few IT-related positions that do not require that you also have solid business skills and experience. For example, say you're applying for an IT job with a financial services company: You could be a much better programmer than the other guy, but he's going to get the job over you if he has a solid understanding of the financial services industry. The only way to gain the business knowledge and experience is to work in jobs that expose you to it; temp places are the fastest and easiest way to do it.
Stick with the brand names (Kelly, Volt, and Venturi, in my part of the country). Most large corporations will have an exclusivity contract with a certain staffing company...but for some reason temp agencies never advertize that info. Call each company for information, and make sure to ask who their big ticket clients are. When you register with the agency, state that you're most interesting in longer-term assignments with <insert major client here>, but you're willing to take short term assignments while you wait for a position to open. Remember that all of the agents get a commission of some type--they're not likely to cooperate with each other--if there is an agent who handles only one or two clients, ask for his or her name and send your resume directly. Treat your registration with the temp agency as an interview. Shirt and tie are a must, full suit is better. They reserve their best assignments for their best "associates" (temp agency speak for "peon") so the better your first impression, the better your odds are at landing a good assignment.
Keep in mind that most temps are human slugs...and most employers know this. If you show up early every day, work hard, and keep looking for more tasks to do, you're going to be Superman to them. Use every temp assignment as a networking opportunity. Take the time to learn more about the departments you might be interested in, and don't be shy about passing out your resume. Look for things you can do outside your official resposibilities that will help the business in the long run and do them (but make sure your official work is done at a better than exceptable level). Most companies in my experience open internal job postings to temps, so keep an eye on it and make your supervisor aware of what you're looking for.
It might take a few tries to land in a place that gives you the opportunity to move into the right position, but every assignment you take builds useful business skills. If you're stuck in a dead-end job with one temp agency, call another and start hounding them for assignments. They have no loyalty to you, and in return they expect none from you, so it's not a big deal to leave in the middle of an assignment. It's often crap work, benefits are usually non-existant, and the pay sucks, but you gain something that the rest of the recent BSCS grads with a 3.8 don't have: a foot in the door.
While you're at it, work on your resume. Keep in mind your audience: The HR analyst who reads it probably doesn't know the difference between a router and a modem, and has no understanding of programming. He or she does, however, know how to spot real business knowledge and experience. Make sure to include the technical aspects (configured Cisco routers, designed apps in C++, supported multiple office suites, etc.) for each job on your resume, but focus on the business applications of your work. The end result is that your core skills are still apparent on your resume, but you appear to be much more well-rounded; and the emphasis on non-IT skills and accomplishments will make each job you list unique. Add bullet points under your most important jobs listing specific accomplishments that went above and beyond your peers. Whatever you do, don't use a resume template. That screams, "I'm lazy!" and goes straight to the trash.
Practice interviewing. In my experience, just about everyone would benefit from this. If possible, find someone who can conduct mock interviews with you, and practice with the goal of coming across as calm, comfortable, and confident (not arrogant). Learn to answer the hard questions, like "What's your biggest weakness?" ("I'm not sure yet. I went into <last position> knowing that <insert weakness> was my biggest challenge. I addressed it by <list steps to overcome weakness>, and will meet future challanges in the same way.") or "What is your salary requirement?" ("I've looked into it, and the average salary for my experience level seems to be around X. In my last job, I was paid Y (Your actual salary plus 20%). I would assume that any offer would be competitive.").
Network. The days of getting a job just by posting a resume or applying to an ad are done for awhile. Hit up your friends and relatives; make sure they know you're searching for a job, and ask them periodically if they know of open positions. Subtly work your job search into conversations with new or casual aquaintences. Volunteer for a local charity or non-profit, and always keep a copy of your resume handy. The best jobs aren't advertised on the web or in the classifieds; you have to keep your eyes and ears open, and look in the less obvious places to find them.
To answer your original question, no, the economy is not *that* bad. Jobs aren't as plentiful as they used to be, but there are still plenty to go around. You just need to know how to look.
Temp Agency
I know those places generally have bad reputations (and I've yet to find a company where it's not deserved), but they're an outstanding means to landing a decent entry-level (or slightly better) position. I have no degree and only three years of true professional experience, and yet I managed to land a position with a fortune 500 company as the sole administrator of a system that manages over $400 million a year in trade spending. I got the job because I busted my ass as a $12/hr temp for several months, made my connections within the company, and showed them what I was capable of.
Short of hard core programming, IT Help Desk, and network infrastructure positions, there are very few IT-related positions that do not require that you also have solid business skills and experience. For example, say you're applying for an IT job with a financial services company: You could be a much better programmer than the other guy, but he's going to get the job over you if he has a solid understanding of the financial services industry. The only way to gain the business knowledge and experience is to work in jobs that expose you to it; temp places are the fastest and easiest way to do it.
Stick with the brand names (Kelly, Volt, and Venturi, in my part of the country). Most large corporations will have an exclusivity contract with a certain staffing company...but for some reason temp agencies never advertize that info. Call each company for information, and make sure to ask who their big ticket clients are. When you register with the agency, state that you're most interesting in longer-term assignments with <insert major client here>, but you're willing to take short term assignments while you wait for a position to open. Remember that all of the agents get a commission of some type--they're not likely to cooperate with each other--if there is an agent who handles only one or two clients, ask for his or her name and send your resume directly. Treat your registration with the temp agency as an interview. Shirt and tie are a must, full suit is better. They reserve their best assignments for their best "associates" (temp agency speak for "peon") so the better your first impression, the better your odds are at landing a good assignment.
Keep in mind that most temps are human slugs...and most employers know this. If you show up early every day, work hard, and keep looking for more tasks to do, you're going to be Superman to them. Use every temp assignment as a networking opportunity. Take the time to learn more about the departments you might be interested in, and don't be shy about passing out your resume. Look for things you can do outside your official resposibilities that will help the business in the long run and do them (but make sure your official work is done at a better than exceptable level). Most companies in my experience open internal job postings to temps, so keep an eye on it and make your supervisor aware of what you're looking for.
It might take a few tries to land in a place that gives you the opportunity to move into the right position, but every assignment you take builds useful business skills. If you're stuck in a dead-end job with one temp agency, call another and start hounding them for assignments. They have no loyalty to you, and in return they expect none from you, so it's not a big deal to leave in the middle of an assignment. It's often crap work, benefits are usually non-existant, and the pay sucks, but you gain something that the rest of the recent BSCS grads with a 3.8 don't have: a foot in the door.
While you're at it, work on your resume. Keep in mind your audience: The HR analyst who reads it probably doesn't know the difference between a router and a modem, and has no understanding of programming. He or she does, however, know how to spot real business knowledge and experience. Make sure to include the technical aspects (configured Cisco routers, designed apps in C++, supported multiple office suites, etc.) for each job on your resume, but focus on the business applications of your work. The end result is that your core skills are still apparent on your resume, but you appear to be much more well-rounded; and the emphasis on non-IT skills and accomplishments will make each job you list unique. Add bullet points under your most important jobs listing specific accomplishments that went above and beyond your peers. Whatever you do, don't use a resume template. That screams, "I'm lazy!" and goes straight to the trash.
Practice interviewing. In my experience, just about everyone would benefit from this. If possible, find someone who can conduct mock interviews with you, and practice with the goal of coming across as calm, comfortable, and confident (not arrogant). Learn to answer the hard questions, like "What's your biggest weakness?" ("I'm not sure yet. I went into <last position> knowing that <insert weakness> was my biggest challenge. I addressed it by <list steps to overcome weakness>, and will meet future challanges in the same way.") or "What is your salary requirement?" ("I've looked into it, and the average salary for my experience level seems to be around X. In my last job, I was paid Y (Your actual salary plus 20%). I would assume that any offer would be competitive.").
Network. The days of getting a job just by posting a resume or applying to an ad are done for awhile. Hit up your friends and relatives; make sure they know you're searching for a job, and ask them periodically if they know of open positions. Subtly work your job search into conversations with new or casual aquaintences. Volunteer for a local charity or non-profit, and always keep a copy of your resume handy. The best jobs aren't advertised on the web or in the classifieds; you have to keep your eyes and ears open, and look in the less obvious places to find them.
To answer your original question, no, the economy is not *that* bad. Jobs aren't as plentiful as they used to be, but there are still plenty to go around. You just need to know how to look.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
Assuming you can get anyone from an agency to actually talk to you. Assuming you can get them past their party line of "We don't have anything for you right now, but we have you in our database and will contact you if we find a match for you."
Temp Agencies at this point are no better than blind resume shots. It's an employers' market right now, and the only chance you have is to get your resume to anyone that is hiring. Especially in the IT sector. Odds are you'll be working retail before you find anything remotely relevant to your career path.
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
- 78
- 91
While there are a lot of tech jobs in the DC area the majority of them want you to already have a security clearance. When I was looking back in May I was told by one of the large contracting companies that they had over 500 people on the bench awaiting clearances. That will be one of the biggest hurdles to overcome to get a job in this area.
Gotta be honest... my first impression from reading the subject/title and follow-up posts is that you are a bit stuck up. The market is still not great, and most of your skills do not qualify you for much. Linux and C++ is very specialized and it is unlikely that you are as good as an experienced developer in them.
What would make you think that you should seek anything except an entry level job? I don't know what sort of side consulting you did, but I can say with some certainty that no matter where you went to school, it is unlikely that you learned more than 30% of what you would need to know for anything except an entry level position.
If your side consulting is anything like most self employed side consulting and most people who have it, you probably have a few bad habits that were reinforced and now probably think more of your own skills than you ought to, which can come off in interviews. I speak from experience on that one, I was the same way for a while.
What would make you think that you should seek anything except an entry level job? I don't know what sort of side consulting you did, but I can say with some certainty that no matter where you went to school, it is unlikely that you learned more than 30% of what you would need to know for anything except an entry level position.
If your side consulting is anything like most self employed side consulting and most people who have it, you probably have a few bad habits that were reinforced and now probably think more of your own skills than you ought to, which can come off in interviews. I speak from experience on that one, I was the same way for a while.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: ntsf
I'm starting to wonder if I should instead put "Seeking entry level position"
what does it say currently.......if this is your first job outta college what else would it say besides seeking entry level
If you had a good internship or pt/ft job while in college you shouldn't have to seek an entry level position upon graduation.
From what I've seen lately, in software development "entry-level" now typically means 2-3 years of solid work experience.
Post your resume.
What skills & knowledge do you have outside of CS/IT? My office has occasionally looked for entry level developers, but we want somebody with a strong physics and/or space background as well. CS grads are a dime a dozen, but CS grads with a strong science background are hard to find.
What skills & knowledge do you have outside of CS/IT? My office has occasionally looked for entry level developers, but we want somebody with a strong physics and/or space background as well. CS grads are a dime a dozen, but CS grads with a strong science background are hard to find.
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