Is this illegal?

[guyver01]

Illegal? No I doubt it.

Wrong.

It's illegal for people to cheat insurance companies.

Insurance Fraud is specifically classified as a crime in all states


Section 1347 of Title 18 of the United States Code states that whoever attempts or carries out a “scheme or artifice” to “defraud a health care benefit program” will be “fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.” If this scheme results in bodily injury, the violator may be imprisoned up to 20 years, and if the scheme results in death the violator may be imprisoned for life.


and so the OP cannot change their post

Let's say I was diagnosed with cancer today. But I just passed a test that cleared me from having one 2 weeks ago.

Can I sign up for life insurance knowing that I have cancer? (And they won't know.)

My friend's mom is considering doing this. I know nothing about cancer or how life insurance works.

Since you posted it here, the mods are under obligation to provide your IP to the local fraud investigator in your state.

 

[Zeze]

Wrong.

It's illegal for people to cheat insurance companies.

Insurance Fraud is specifically classified as a crime in all states


Section 1347 of Title 18 of the United States Code states that whoever attempts or carries out a “scheme or artifice” to “defraud a health care benefit program” will be “fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.” If this scheme results in bodily injury, the violator may be imprisoned up to 20 years, and if the scheme results in death the violator may be imprisoned for life.


and so the OP cannot change their post




Since you posted it here, the mods are under obligation to provide your IP to the local fraud investigator in your state.

lol internet.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Wrong.

It's illegal for people to cheat insurance companies.

Insurance Fraud is specifically classified as a crime in all states


Section 1347 of Title 18 of the United States Code states that whoever attempts or carries out a “scheme or artifice” to “defraud a health care benefit program” will be “fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.” If this scheme results in bodily injury, the violator may be imprisoned up to 20 years, and if the scheme results in death the violator may be imprisoned for life.


and so the OP cannot change their post




Since you posted it here, the mods are under obligation to provide your IP to the local fraud investigator in your state.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

One of the questions on EVERY life insurance application is: Do you or have you had cancer, diabetes, heart disease... Answering that question untruthfully is a material misrepresentation. At that point it is up to the insurer to do due diligence during underwriting to screen for medical problems. In most cases medical records would be ordered and a physical exam performed. IF she were still able to hide this fact from the insurer the insurance would go into force. If she died in the contestability period of the policy (2 years most places), the insurer would have a second chance to evaluate whether there were any material misrepresentations during the application process. If there were they would deny the claim and refund any premiums paid. If she dies after the contestability period they would pay the claim. Most likely is that they would simply catch this before issuing a policy and deny the proposed insured coverage or give her a very high rating; depends on the cancer, stage, treatability, and care.

It is a crime in most states to lie on an insurance application, but as sactoking said, no company or state would pursue this.

Sounds like she should have thought about this a while back. You also can not insure anyone for more than they are worth, so if she had no reason for much coverage before, she would not get much now.

 

[guyver01]

lol internet.

wat?

you asked a question.. and got the real answer.

don't want the truth.. don't ask the question.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Wrong.

It's illegal for people to cheat insurance companies.

Insurance Fraud is specifically classified as a crime in all states


Section 1347 of Title 18 of the United States Code states that whoever attempts or carries out a “scheme or artifice” to “defraud a health care benefit program” will be “fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.” If this scheme results in bodily injury, the violator may be imprisoned up to 20 years, and if the scheme results in death the violator may be imprisoned for life.

Life insurance is regulated by the states not the federal government. Way to be germane!

 

[SphinxnihpS]

wat?

You asked a question.. And got the real answer.

Don't want the truth.. Don't ask the question.

You know zero. Quiet!

 

[rasczak]

If it smells like shit and looks like shit, then it must be...shit?

Common sense would tell you this is not a good idea.

 

[Googer]

Let's say I was diagnosed with cancer today. But I just passed a test that cleared me from having one 2 weeks ago.

Can I sign up for life insurance knowing that I have cancer? (And they won't know.)

My friend's mom is considering doing this. I know nothing about cancer or how life insurance works.

You can apply for insurance, but you will pay out the ass for it. The money would be better spent on treatments in my opinion. Seek out MD Anderson in Texas, Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, or The Cleaveland Clinic in that order.

 

[blinblue]

One of the questions on EVERY life insurance application is: Do you or have you had cancer, diabetes, heart disease... Answering that question untruthfully is a material misrepresentation. At that point it is up to the insurer to do due diligence during underwriting to screen for medical problems. In most cases medical records would be ordered and a physical exam performed. IF she were still able to hide this fact from the insurer the insurance would go into force. If she died in the contestability period of the policy (2 years most places), the insurer would have a second chance to evaluate whether there were any material misrepresentations during the application process. If there were they would deny the claim and refund any premiums paid. If she dies after the contestability period they would pay the claim. Most likely is that they would simply catch this before issuing a policy and deny the proposed insured coverage or give her a very high rating; depends on the cancer, stage, treatability, and care.

It is a crime in most states to lie on an insurance application, but as sactoking said, no company or state would pursue this.

Sounds like she should have thought about this a while back. You also can not insure anyone for more than they are worth, so if she had no reason for much coverage before, she would not get much now.

Sure you can. You can buy insurance for basically whatever amount you want (I'm sure crazy amounts would require some special underwriting, and most insurance places won't do it). But you can buy as much as they'll sell, and you can buy multiple policies if you want.

Your "worth" is whatever you want it to be, just be willing to pay the premium and they'll be happy to have you.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Sure you can. You can buy insurance for basically whatever amount you want (I'm sure crazy amounts would require some special underwriting, and most insurance places won't do it). But you can buy as much as they'll sell, and you can buy multiple policies if you want.

Your "worth" is whatever you want it to be, just be willing to pay the premium and they'll be happy to have you.

Who's to say the value of a mother?

You do have to have a vested interest in the item/person insured though... Otherwise I'd insure Hall and make me some money.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Who's to say the value of a mother?

You do have to have a vested interest in the item/person insured though... Otherwise I'd insure Hall and make me some money.

Is that a threat? Since you posted it here, the mods are under obligation to provide your IP to the local homicide investigator in your state.

 

[sactoking]

One of the questions on EVERY life insurance application is: Do you or have you had cancer, diabetes, heart disease... Answering that question untruthfully is a material misrepresentation. At that point it is up to the insurer to do due diligence during underwriting to screen for medical problems. In most cases medical records would be ordered and a physical exam performed. IF she were still able to hide this fact from the insurer the insurance would go into force. If she died in the contestability period of the policy (2 years most places), the insurer would have a second chance to evaluate whether there were any material misrepresentations during the application process. If there were they would deny the claim and refund any premiums paid. If she dies after the contestability period they would pay the claim. Most likely is that they would simply catch this before issuing a policy and deny the proposed insured coverage or give her a very high rating; depends on the cancer, stage, treatability, and care.

It is a crime in most states to lie on an insurance application, but as sactoking said, no company or state would pursue this.

Sounds like she should have thought about this a while back. You also can not insure anyone for more than they are worth, so if she had no reason for much coverage before, she would not get much now.

Just to clarify on this and what I said earlier:

If the application contains a material misrepresentation then it can be voided/rescinded during the contestability period. For example, if you die during the contestability period from a heart attack and didn't disclose a previously known heart condition the claim would be denied for material misrepresentation. After the contestability period, material misrepresentation on the application will not cause rescission. If the coverage changes materially, like a guaranteed insurability clause being exercised, a new contestability period may apply.

If the application is part of a fraudulent undertaking then it may be voided/rescinded at any time, even after death. The difference between fraud and material misrepresentation is that fraud requires a proven premeditated effort to acquire funds which the insured would not be owed; misrepresentation only requires that the application contained some misstatement, intentional or not, that would have changed the decision about insuring the applicant. In many jurisdictions the fraud threshold is by "a preponderance of evidence". Owing to the fact that the insurers have to prove materiality and intent by such a higher threshold in fraud cases, many/most true cases of life insurance fraud are labeled as misrepresentation and not pursued.

 

[zinfamous]

do it. fuck the fucking insurance company.



lol. I see Guyver is back on his horse again.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Sure you can. You can buy insurance for basically whatever amount you want (I'm sure crazy amounts would require some special underwriting, and most insurance places won't do it). But you can buy as much as they'll sell, and you can buy multiple policies if you want.

Your "worth" is whatever you want it to be, just be willing to pay the premium and they'll be happy to have you.

No, you're completely wrong! I will wager anything you like.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Who's to say the value of a mother?

The insurance company. Like it or not you have a present and future dollar value.

 

[blinblue]

No, you're completely wrong! I will wager anything you like.

Sorry not a betting person.

So I did some double checking. I see no mention anywhere of any legal limit on life insurance. There are of course practical limits (most places won't insure unusually high amounts). There are no limits on number of policies you can have.

I would be very interested to be proven wrong though. So any links/info would be great.


edit: And yes I am aware that most places will ask if you have other life insurance policies and their amounts. But again this is not some legal requirement and I'm sure for the right premium and the right company you could make just about anything happen. So, practical limits, yes, but no legal ones, and certainly not relevant to the OP's question

 

[sactoking]

Sorry not a betting person.

So I did some double checking. I see no mention anywhere of any legal limit on life insurance. There are of course practical limits (most places won't insure unusually high amounts). There are no limits on number of policies you can have.

I would be very interested to be proven wrong though. So any links/info would be great.


edit: And yes I am aware that most places will ask if you have other life insurance policies and their amounts. But again this is not some legal requirement and I'm sure for the right premium and the right company you could make just about anything happen. So, practical limits, yes, but no legal ones, and certainly not relevant to the OP's question

There is no "legal limit" on life insurance. That said, no insurer will insure you for more than your inherent worth. If you are literally not worth $1 after your affairs are settled and have no decendent interests, you will not get a $10,000,000 life insurance policy.

Your contention that

Your "worth" is whatever you want it to be, just be willing to pay the premium and they'll be happy to have you.

is wrong. If you were insured for too much (i.e. your stated "worth" far exceeded your actuarial "worth") you'd have moral hazard (incentive to die or be killed) which would change your mortality which would change the actuarial analysis which would make your policy a "loser" and no company would write it.

 

[blinblue]

There is no "legal limit" on life insurance. That said, no insurer will insure you for more than your inherent worth. If you are literally not worth $1 after your affairs are settled and have no decendent interests, you will not get a $10,000,000 life insurance policy.

Your contention that is wrong. If you were insured for too much (i.e. your stated "worth" far exceeded your actuarial "worth") you'd have moral hazard (incentive to die or be killed) which would change your mortality which would change the actuarial analysis which would make your policy a "loser" and no company would write it.

True (the way I worded that sentence that you quoted was not very good).

I guess what I was trying to get at is that one's "worth" is a nebulous concept, and while I am sure there are very nice rules to actuarially determine your max benefit and thus your "worth" I'm sure it doesn't always match up (whether higher or lower) than your own perceived worth. Also, at least on my life insurance application, the amount of information requested about my wealth was pretty minimal. I think just my and my spouses income.
So if you define your worth as what a typical life insurance company will have as a limit, then of course you can't get more than what you are worth.

 

[spidey07]

As everybody has said it's illegal in the fraud aspect and the contract would be void and no payout. They could probably get you for fraud as well for criminal action. There's plenty of clauses in the contract about listing any illness or diagnosis that are known to the patient. Patient knew they had cancer/illness and by not divulging it on application and signing it renders contract null and void.

It really is that simple.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

As everybody has said it's illegal in the fraud aspect No. and the contract would be void and no payout. Potentially. They could probably get you for fraud as well for criminal action. No! There's plenty of clauses in the contract about listing any illness or diagnosis that are known to the patient. There are zero such clauses in the contract. Patient knew they had cancer/illness and by not divulging it on application and signing it renders contract null and void. Potentially

It really is that simple. Apparently not...

Bravo for trying to sneak in here and sound intelligent, and despite having an entire thread to use as a guide, still getting it all wrong!

 

[SphinxnihpS]

True (the way I worded that sentence that you quoted was not very good).

I guess what I was trying to get at is that one's "worth" is a nebulous concept, and while I am sure there are very nice rules to actuarially determine your max benefit and thus your "worth" I'm sure it doesn't always match up (whether higher or lower) than your own perceived worth. Also, at least on my life insurance application, the amount of information requested about my wealth was pretty minimal. I think just my and my spouses income.
So if you define your worth as what a typical life insurance company will have as a limit, then of course you can't get more than what you are worth.

I never said there was a legal limit. There are insurable interest statues which cover this subject tangentially, but I merely said you can not insure someone for more than they are worth. Though that value can be figured in different ways, it is roughly the same from company to company. At VERY high dollar amounts, all companies re-insure, and then the methods of valuation become less flexible as there are simple only a few re-insurers.

Most carriers just use some simple tables and/or formulas taking into account age and income, then use assets and debts for more comprehensive decisions where the table limit is breached, finally using professionally verified financial audits when high amounts of coverage are involved. In your case the coverage you applied for probably just fit into their table so no additional info was needed, but they could have done a quick background check on you to verify your story. You signed a release giving them a right to quite a bit of personal data, everything as a matter of fact.

I only made the statement in the first place because the OP is one of the few situations where people attempt to over-insure; when they know they are dying, or when someone wants them dead. It is ultimately the same reason you can not buy life insurance on me.

 

[Zebo]

What do you care for, you're gonna die soon and prison has free health care if you get caught. win win.