-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Is this Illegal?
Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
I agree that it probably isn't legal (not 100% on the laws for that myself) but I disagree with your rule of thumb. Your statement implies that just because someone doesn't secure something they pay for, you have no problem taking it. In my opinion, you're still stealing something of value (internet connection) and that doesn't change the situation. If my neighbor was moving and left his 50" plasma TV in front of his front door while he went to go get his truck, sure I could take it, and yeah it would be his fault for not securing it, but it would still be theft.
SBC Yahoo! DSL is only 16.99 a month... is that so expensive that you can justify stealing a neighbor's connection?
Kevlar Coated Tent
Member
I'm pretty sure it would be illegal, in theory your "stealing" their internet, but then again i live by the theory if they arent going to notice and they cant catch you its not realyl illegal 🙂 lol. As for secured wifi, it would just be the same as unsecured I think would find but the same rule applies, and if its WEP it might aswell not be secured but anyway.
I've been finding on some service calls, that the client manged to setup their wireless network, but little else. Subsequently, they have evrything on defaults the way it shipped, and they are unintentionally connecting to their neighbor's LAN at times with their notebooks. It is probably going to be the same percentage of people who have their networks unsecured and poorly setup, as those who simply could not/would not learn how to set the clock on their VCR 😉
Zap
Elite Member
Here are a couple of true stories...
Where I last lived in CA, my neighbor had an unsecured AP (actually more than one, but only got strong signal from this one). I though to myself, "great, now I can still go online when Adelphia craps out." Well, next time Adelphia crapped out, I connected to my neighbor's AP and... guess what? They must have been on Adelphia as well because no internet. 😛 When I moved out, I used their connection for a few hours since I had already cancelled mine.
A friend of mine lived across the street from a motel that advertised free broadband. He asked them about it and they said it was a wireless connection in their lobby. He asked if they minded him using it and they actually said they did not mind. The only problem? He couldn't get a strong enough signal from his room. To use it he had to sit outside with his computer!!! (He was unemployed at the time)
Here's the best story - 100% true. I was in Reedsport, Oregon in January. The motel we stayed in did not have internet access, but I decided to check anyways. Got a signal, but it was too weak, so at 11pm I put on my jacket and went outside for a "walk" with the notebook. The SSID was a business name, so I saw it across the street and down the block a bit, so I went closer and got a useable signal. I was browsing the usual tech sites when a police car pulled up. Dude rolls down his window and asks, "what in the world are you doing?" I said, "browsing the internet using a wireless signal I found." He said, "oh, must be that realtor across the street. Wow you must have a good wireless card because when I use it I have to park in their lot." He then said he needed more info on me for their own paperwork because someone had actually called them stating that a strange person was hanging out in front of a closed business (I was in front of an auto repair shop). I gave him name and address, he recommended that I finish up what I was doing and he left.
Where I last lived in CA, my neighbor had an unsecured AP (actually more than one, but only got strong signal from this one). I though to myself, "great, now I can still go online when Adelphia craps out." Well, next time Adelphia crapped out, I connected to my neighbor's AP and... guess what? They must have been on Adelphia as well because no internet. 😛 When I moved out, I used their connection for a few hours since I had already cancelled mine.
A friend of mine lived across the street from a motel that advertised free broadband. He asked them about it and they said it was a wireless connection in their lobby. He asked if they minded him using it and they actually said they did not mind. The only problem? He couldn't get a strong enough signal from his room. To use it he had to sit outside with his computer!!! (He was unemployed at the time)
Here's the best story - 100% true. I was in Reedsport, Oregon in January. The motel we stayed in did not have internet access, but I decided to check anyways. Got a signal, but it was too weak, so at 11pm I put on my jacket and went outside for a "walk" with the notebook. The SSID was a business name, so I saw it across the street and down the block a bit, so I went closer and got a useable signal. I was browsing the usual tech sites when a police car pulled up. Dude rolls down his window and asks, "what in the world are you doing?" I said, "browsing the internet using a wireless signal I found." He said, "oh, must be that realtor across the street. Wow you must have a good wireless card because when I use it I have to park in their lot." He then said he needed more info on me for their own paperwork because someone had actually called them stating that a strange person was hanging out in front of a closed business (I was in front of an auto repair shop). I gave him name and address, he recommended that I finish up what I was doing and he left.
If you detect their signal: Not Illegal
If you connect to their network: Hasn't been deemed illegal yet...
If you surf the net over their wireless: Illegal
However, like I have stated before, you will probably only be caught if someone is looking for the activity or you're abusing their network. If someone leaves their network unsecured then they probably don't know enough to catch you in the first place. Will authorities bust you on it? Probably not, unless there's some sort of complaint.
While the majority of it is in a grey area, the theft of internet is not. Only someone willing to press charges would get you in a world of trouble. Even then the court would have to want to make an example out of you or something to really get into big trouble. At the most I'd think you'd get a slap on the wrist and be let go, assuming you had no bad intent on their network.
If you're willing to accept the risks, then go on unprotected networks day and night. Personally I don't care. I'm just the anonymous forum poster giving advice on what has happened in RL already. Yes, people have gotten in trouble over it. Will you? Probably not. Good luck!
If you connect to their network: Hasn't been deemed illegal yet...
If you surf the net over their wireless: Illegal
However, like I have stated before, you will probably only be caught if someone is looking for the activity or you're abusing their network. If someone leaves their network unsecured then they probably don't know enough to catch you in the first place. Will authorities bust you on it? Probably not, unless there's some sort of complaint.
While the majority of it is in a grey area, the theft of internet is not. Only someone willing to press charges would get you in a world of trouble. Even then the court would have to want to make an example out of you or something to really get into big trouble. At the most I'd think you'd get a slap on the wrist and be let go, assuming you had no bad intent on their network.
If you're willing to accept the risks, then go on unprotected networks day and night. Personally I don't care. I'm just the anonymous forum poster giving advice on what has happened in RL already. Yes, people have gotten in trouble over it. Will you? Probably not. Good luck!
This is like saying:
I left my house unlocked and allowed strangers to come inside and walk around and then get mad when something goes missing. People need to take responsiblity for their actions or lack of actions. This is not the 1950's you can't just expect for people to be on the "honor system" and assume they will not use something that has been given to them on a silver platter. i don't believe you should steal wireless internet but if you can get in trouble for accidentally connecting and using the wrong ap you should get in trouble for leaving you ap wide open.
Very true! In fact a county in New York is trying to pass a law that makes unsecured networks against the law. I agree wholeheartedly that these people leaving themselves open to attack should be held accountable.
Also, the parts you quoted are 100% true. Connecting to a wireless network, but not using their internet connectivity is not against the law. The reason connecting to the wireless network and using the internet on it is against the law is because you're now going onto the ISP's network. That's where they get you. I believe I covered this in my earlier posts. 🙂
EDIT:
Here's a link to an article about the proposed New York Wi-Fi law:
http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?story_id=02200000IJA6
Oh i see. That makes sense.
i think the law needs to be passed but you would almost have to go after the companies making the ap's because people will claim that they don't have the knowledge or the money to secure their AP. Then they will want to sue (insert manufacturer here) because they accidentally connected to their neighbors unsecured ap and downloaded a virus that destroyed data.
true. i agree that it is illegal. but you lock your house anyway because people don't always do what is right. that way if you come home and someone is in your house watching tv they can't say "the door was open so i wondered in but i only watched a little tv and didn't realize i wasn't at my place."
i just trying to say you should be held accountable for leaving an AP wide open.
i just trying to say you should be held accountable for leaving an AP wide open.
It's OT, but that happened to my dad once. Back in college him and his buddies were watching TV and drinking beers in their apartment. They were the big party hangout back in that that day. Anyway, this guy walks through their front door and plops himself in front of the TV. All the guys were looking at eachother confused, trying to figure out who this guy was. Finally they realized it was a stranger and kicked him out. The guy was high as a kite and smashed. He meant to go into the apartment next to theirs.
That's an example when someone "cool" can deal with a mistake. If that guy had gone into the wrong apartment though he could have found himself in some deep legal matters. It's really dependent on who you're wronging and if there was intent and how they feel at that very moment about it...
plastick
Golden Member
YES well, how could I possibly get caught??? The only way would be if someone was monitoring the packets to see if i sent anything containing personal info.. and even if i did, they couldnt prove that it was me since someone else could be abusing my personal info with the abused internet access..:roll:
How would they catch you? I don't know. Never had my wireless comprimised as far as I know. If I did I probably wouldn't notice unless they were abusing my internet. It's not like I check my DHCP tables for users on my router very often.
In almost every post I've made I've said you probably would never get caught. When free legal wireless internet is so cheap and widely available why would you risk stealing it? Good luck if you choose to do so though. 😀
And that is the whole point.
The internet is NOT free.
Any communication is NOT free short of shouting at the top of a building. (well you can receive broadcasts and use radio, but that is beside the point...we're talking 'The Internet' here.
I'll go off on a rant.
Having internet is not a right, it is not free. There is a cost to all things communications related. This is what I do - communications.
Someway, somehow, somebody is paying for it.
Be it dial tone, be it cellular, be it any form of communication - it ain't free. Somebody is paying. That's what gets me so worked up over these threads. People think they are "entitled" to free internet. But your free is somebody elses money.
News flash - the internet cost a whole bunch of money and the gear/operations/contracts are all there to generate money. THey don't do it "for free" or "but mankind needs access to information and that info should be 'free!!!'". Nothing in this life is free except for air and water and food if you can grow it.
Equate Internet to a dial tone and you'll understand because that is EXACTLY what it is. A dial tone and the ability to make calls to whoever you like.
Looks like the law only affects business that offer WiFi and not personal/residential networks. At first i thought a law that requires people to protect their networks was asking a bit much (how to enforce, how to educate people, etc... it's like making it illegal to leave your front door unlocked, but the lock is fancy and complex and complicated) but after reading the article, it totally makes sense. It's a shame that a law has to be put in place to protect people because businesses can't be bothered to do so.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
