Is this a vaild excuse to upgrade to C2D?

[hennethannun]

So my 3700+ (san diego) fried last night (technically out of warranty since I used an aftermarket cooler and did a bit of (very) light overclocking).

Simultaneously, my brother is building a new s939 system and would probably be interested in buying my s939 motherboard and DDR400.

Is this a good enough excuse to upgrade to C2D, or should i just grab an X2 with the prices being so low?

also, if I do settle on C2D, is it worth waiting for better motherboards and better prices/availability on the processors (particularly the E6600)? How quickly will the prices come down? 3 weeks, a month, 2 months?

 

[MrWizzard]

How high were you overclocking? And what type of cooling were you using?

Reason I ask is I have a 3700 at 2.55 with stock cooling.....

Oh and how long did you have it? Were you the first owner?

 

[hennethannun]

I was just doing a very light OC, 5-7.5% or so (210-215 FSB) at stock voltages x11 for about 2.36ghz etc. Couldn't go any higher cos I don't have an AC in my computer office AND my motherboard was always a bit temperamental.

the HS/F was a Swiftech MCX6400-V with an 80mm fan. To give you an idea of how hot my office gets, during the summer, with that heatsink, and good airflow in my case, I idled at 44-46C (with C'n'Q). During the winter, under the same conditions, I idded at 32C

 

[RichUK]

E6600 + RD600 FTW

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Are you sure it's the 3700+ thats fried? More likely the mobo IMO

 

[Cheex]

Any reason to switch to Core 2 Duo is a good reason...lol.
However, you choice should be based on your budget and time frame (how long you can wait).

 

[hennethannun]

i don't think that the overclocking fried my cpu. I think that a combination of the heat, humidity in my office, possible manufacturer's defects fried the chip. Right now, the motherboard diagnotics are saying that the CPU is the problem, I do have access to another motherboard, but i won't be able to get some thermal paste and try everything out until later this week, just to be sure that the CPU is the problem, but that SEEMS to be the case:

when i boot up, the system starts to boot and then hangs on the motherboard logo screen, ie just when it detects the cpu. the motherboard reacted properly when i cleared the CMOS, ie i am SURE that the CMOS clearing worked because the logo screen was reset to default. but the system still hangs at the same place.

So i am tempted to RMA the processor, and build a C2D system in the meantime. If AMD honors the warranty, I have a nice processor to use for a second rig (maybe i can set up the dedicated linux box i have always been too poor to build), and if they dont' replace my 3700+ i still have a C2D...

 

[hennethannun]

Originally posted by: Cheex
Any reason to switch to Core 2 Duo is a good reason...lol.
However, you choice should be based on your budget and time frame (how long you can wait).

budget would be up to about $330 for the processor (ie E6600 at MSRP). hopefully selling the s939 mobo and memory would cover most of the cost of a new LGA775 board and DDR2 memory (with some $40 MIRs right now, a mid-rang DDR2 800 2x1GB set is about $160 for 4-4-4-12 or so). Keeping everything else (case, GPU, hdds optical etc).

and i can wait as long as I can stand to be without a gaming/encoding pc (which probably isn't that long with the Dark Messiah demo coming out today XD)

 

[RichUK]

You do realise that the motherboards requires the processor to run the post. Aka the BIOS needs the POST information processed by the CPU.

So if the CPU was fried, the only thing that would happen when turning on your computer, is the fans will turn on.

You mention that the motherboard diagnostics indicate the processor is at fault, but if this was the case you would not get any picture what so ever (as you stated that it hangs at the logo screen).

Try another motherboard and just leave the paste that is already on the top of the processor, this will be fine. Don?t forget, its not as if you need a burger sized amount of thermal paste between the heatsink and processor.

Do this as a quick test on the other motherboard,

EDIT: Also do you get any BEEPS??

 

[hennethannun]

I get normal beeps. ie the same tones that i always get when i start the system.
and when i say logo screen, I don't mean the windows logo, i mean the motherboard logo. the system isn't posting at all. it hangs 1 second after i turn on the power. Just BEFORE the BIOS detects the processor.

So just in case this isn't clear, normally when i turn on the system the sequence is this: motherboard logo (or, if MB logo is disabled in bios) text for POST when BIOS detects CPU, then Memory, with a 'press del for BIOS' commonad at the bottom of the screen). then initializing all the integrated peripherals, then Windows logo, then login screen.

I usually disabled the motherboard logo display, so i always get the POST text when i start my machine. When it first hung, all i go to was the text for POST screen, where everything hung just before the CPU was detected and listed on-screen. My first response was to reset the CMOS. After that, I got the motherboard logo where the system hangs.

So I am pretty sure that the CMOs reset worked because the motherboard logo started happening and that is the default display. but i am still having the same hanging problem, at the same point, which makes me think that the problem is not my mobo.

I will try another motherboard tonight after work, but do think that the CPU is the problem.

as for thermal paste, maybe i am anal, but i like to clean of the processor (and heatsink) with isopropyl and re-apply the past whenever i move the heatsink. probably isn't 100% necessary, but air in the thermal compound does reduce heat transfer.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: hennethannun
I get normal beeps. ie the same tones that i always get when i start the system.
and when i say logo screen, I don't mean the windows logo, i mean the motherboard logo. the system isn't posting at all. it hangs 1 second after i turn on the power. Just BEFORE the BIOS detects the processor.

So just in case this isn't clear, normally when i turn on the system the sequence is this: motherboard logo (or, if MB logo is disabled in bios) text for POST when BIOS detects CPU, then Memory, with a 'press del for BIOS' commonad at the bottom of the screen). then initializing all the integrated peripherals, then Windows logo, then login screen.

I usually disabled the motherboard logo display, so i always get the POST text when i start my machine. When it first hung, all i go to was the text for POST screen, where everything hung just before the CPU was detected and listed on-screen. My first response was to reset the CMOS. After that, I got the motherboard logo where the system hangs.

So I am pretty sure that the CMOs reset worked because the motherboard logo started happening and that is the default display. but i am still having the same hanging problem, at the same point, which makes me think that the problem is not my mobo.

I will try another motherboard tonight after work, but do think that the CPU is the problem.

as for thermal paste, maybe i am anal, but i like to clean of the processor (and heatsink) with isopropyl and re-apply the past whenever i move the heatsink. probably isn't 100% necessary, but air in the thermal compound does reduce heat transfer.

Yes I understood you the first time. Why the hell would?ve I thought that you meant the windows logon logo, when you had already stated in your previous post

the system starts to boot and then hangs on the motherboard logo screen

Right now let me reiterate this. You will see NOTHING on the screen, you will hear NO BIOS BEEPS, if you have a faulty processor. You obviously have an ill understanding of the basic hardware principles.

Ok again?. YOUR PROCESSOR, PROCESSES THE BIOS BEEPS, DURING THE POWER ON SELF TEST (POST). THE CPU IS PROCESSING THE STORED INFORMATION WITHIN THE BIOS ROM TO TEST THAT ALL NECESSARY HARDWARE IS INSTALLED FOR YOUR COMPUTER TO BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don?t believe me, remove the processor from your motherboard and see if the same thing happens. Jesus I was trying to help. EDIT: Just for clarity, the BIOS does not detect the processor, it simply reads the CPU ID, and displays it on the screen.

With regards to your comment about the thermal paste. I simply meant you could try out the basic diagnosis without cleaning the processor, when fitting it in the new motherboard.

And so what if the air in the compound reduces heat transfer, you are trying to test for a dead processor, under stable conditions

Also if you follow normal procedures of twisting the heatsink to release any trapped air before letting the TIM (Thermal Insulation Material) cure, it wouldn?t matter whether you cleaned it or not.

 

[hennethannun]

Originally posted by: RichUK
Ok again?. YOUR PROCESSOR, PROCESSES THE BIOS BEEPS, DURING THE POWER ON SELF TEST (POST). THE CPU IS PROCESSING THE STORED INFORMATION WITHIN THE BIOS ROM TO TEST THAT ALL NESSEACRY HARDWARE IS INSTALLED FOR YOUR COMPUTER TO BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rich, I appreciate your help, and I wasn't trying to insult you or anything. it's just that the exaclt sequence of things is not super easy to explain and I wanted to be sure that you knew what i was talking about. I would rather risk being TOO specific and telling you things that you already know, as opposed to saying too little and wasting your time because you are trying to help me with a totally different problem because I didn't tell you exactly what was going on...
as you said, I am no expert at this stuff, and I appreciate the help. I WILL test the processor in another motherboard when I get the chance, but I was trying to explain WHY i think the processor is the problem. I may very well be wrong, and I am happy to listen to advice from anyone who wants to offer it.

I do not think that the system is posting (i do know what post stands for). In any event, this should all be solved as soon as I can test the processor with another motherboard.


As for the thermal paste, you are completely right. for a quick test like this, I probably don't need to worry about cleaning everything up and getting fresh compound on the heatspreader. it is a very short test with, as you said, stable conditions. I was just admitting that i tend to be a bit anal about stuff like that and always feel better doing things thoroughly.

 

[betasub]

Kudos for a calm reasoned response.

Re: thread title. upgrade == valid excuse

 

[hennethannun]

Ok, Quick update. I still haven't been able to try the processor on a different motherboard, but i was able to try a different processor on my motherboard.
booted with no difficulties. So it definitely looks like my 3700+ is, in fact, fried.
hopefully i will be able to get my hands on an old s939 motherboard this evening, and make triple sure that my processor is dead, and then request an RMA from AMD tonight!...

 

[cmdrdredd]

Personally I'd just get a cheap X2 for now...then in about 6months evaluate the C2d market when stock is abundant, motherboards are revised and old stock with old bios revisions are moved out, when there are new drivers and possibly new motherboards (Nforce 590 maybe). Then see what takes your fancy...

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Personally I'd just get a cheap X2 for now...then in about 6months evaluate the C2d market when stock is abundant, motherboards are revised and old stock with old bios revisions are moved out, when there are new drivers and possibly new motherboards (Nforce 590 maybe). Then see what takes your fancy...

That's good advice. Indeed someone I know from the local LAN party scene went out and bought a new motherboard with 975X chipset like the ones he saw being used in reviews and such... and got an older revision board that won't support C2D even with BIOS flash. Bummer. Towards the end of the year these issues should clear up and more budget overclocker boards will be available (hopefully) and the cheaper C2D will be out, and no e-tailer will be price gouging... hopefully.

 

[dexvx]

If you need excuses to upgrade, then you probably shouldnt upgrade at all.

 

[hennethannun]

sure,
but I DO need to get a new processor. And my s939 motherboard has always been a bit flaky, so I will buy a new motherboard now.

so my choices are AM2 or C2D or buying a s939 and keeping my old ram.

Buying s939 just so i can save my ram seems silly (especially when i have someone who will buy my ram for a decent price).

and that leaves me with waiting (maybe as much as a month) for the C2D market to settle down (less price-gouging, better bios versions on all the motherboards etc) or going for AM2 now...

 

[orangat]

If you just use your pc mostly for games - no.

 

[gobucks]

definitely don't buy an AM2. there isn't anything wrong with it, but there is no point in buying a new Mobo and RAM when the platform isn't any faster. If you can unload the mobo and RAM, I'd definitely grab a Core 2 system. I just got an e6400 and ga-965p-ds3 mobo and they're both great overclockers (2.93GHz on stock vcore right now, can probably go higher but my cheap ass RAM is limiting me). That mobo can be finicky about RAM though, the OCZ DDR2-800 caused nothing but problems. I just ordered corsair, i heard they have better compatibility.

 

[myocardia]

You can't overclock in an unairconditioned room. Well, not more than once, as you found out. And if you buy a dual-core processor, you're going to have to reload Windows, and lose everything you haven't backed up. Also, it isn't AMD's fault that you were trying to overclock in an unairconditioned room, therefore you can't send that processor back, unless stealing is something that you normally do.

So, the best thing you can do is spend $100 on another 3700, plus ~$200 for an air conditioner for the room that the computer is in. You'll then be able to overclock that 3700 to at least 2.6 Ghz, and won't be buying new processors on a daily basis.

 

[mhahnheuser]

hennethannum, RichUK is speaking with truth and knowledge when he says a faulty cpu will not allow any form of POST. RAM, CPU and GPU are all essential requirement for system to show any sort of POST. Otherwise you get only a black screen. If CPU is dead, then often no fan and usually 8 beeps from the mobo and that's all. If i were you i'd try your 3700+ again since it booted with a diff cpu. Why? You say your mobo's been flaky. It probably stopped at cpu detection because the id on proc did not agree with last known BIOS setting for cpu. CMOS clear does not always clear all info on some mobos. I often leave CMOS clear on for a couple of hours and come back later to check it has been completely reset. Some cases i've had to remove the battery as well. I've experienced some miracullous resurections this way when i'd thought i'd blown a component.

 

[hennethannun]

Myocardia:
The overclock worked for quite some time, more than a year (the 3700+ was purchased in May of 2005) so i wouldn't describve myself as buying processors on a daily basis. I would only really try to overclock in the winter, when the room was cool. In fact, I usually kept settings on stock during the hottest months, and had only gone with a light OC this past weekend because the weather was relatively cool. and C'n'Q was always on, so the system spent 95% of the time below stock speeds anyway. And i think using the word 'stealing' is probably a bit over the top in this context.

as for losing data. that is no problem. I have a new hard drive that i can use as a system drive, and then recover all my essential information. Besides, this wouldn't be the first time i had to reinstall windows. I only keep program installation files and documents on the C: drive. everything else is stored on seperate partitions and hard drives than can easily be used in a new build.

mhahnheuser:
I don't doubt richuk, and I appreciate his trying to help. However, the system is not posting properly, the cpu did not work in another motherboard (was finally able to try that) and another cpu worked in my system. My motherboard has always been a bit flaky (windows wasn't always as stable it could be and i think it was the mobo) but it really does seem like the cpu is the problem.

as for CMOS clear, i have a button, not a jumper, so leaving it set to clear for several hours isn't as easy as it could be. and I did try removing the battery. no luck...