Is this a crime? And if so what crime?

[Sunburn74]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/us/texting-suicide-massachusetts-trial/index.html

Forgive me if there is already a thread on this issue. I'm curious to see the response regarding this case.

Basically a boy is depressed over his parents divorce. His girlfriend convinces him to commit suicide. He does it but clearly has some regrets mid way, regrets he called and expressed to her and regrets that she allayed allowing him to complete the act.

Now she is on trial for manslaughter. What a case! If found guilty it has all sorts of implications. Can bullies be arrested for manslaughter? Bad bosses?

I don't think anyone condones her actions as being just, but what is the specific crime at hand and the right way society should address this sort of thing.

 

[Younigue]

I've been pondering this since I first saw the story. All I've come up with so far is that she is despicable.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It's called depraved heart murder or depraved indifference to human life. Her actions of encouraging him knowing it would lead to serious injury or death is the crime. In some places its second degree murder. Most would be manslaughter.

Depraved-heart murder is the form of murder that establishes that the willful doing of a dangerous and reckless act with wanton indifference to the consequences and perils involved, is just as blameworthy, and just as worthy of punishment, when the harmful result ensues, as is the express intent to kill itself. This highly blameworthy state of mind is not one of mere negligence. ... It is not merely one even of gross criminal negligence. ... It involves rather the deliberate perpetration of a knowingly dangerous act with reckless and wanton unconcern and indifference as to whether anyone is harmed or not. The common law treats such a state of mind as just as blameworthy, just as anti-social and, therefore, just as truly murderous as the specific intents to kill and to harm.

From Debettencourt v. State.

 

[UNCjigga]

Guilty of being a horrible person at least, but was also a minor when the "crime" occurred.

 

[Younigue]

It's called depraved heart murder or depraved indifference to human life. Her actions of encouraging him knowing it would lead to serious injury or death is the crime. In some places its second degree murder. Most would be manslaughter.


From Debettencourt v. State.

Thank you for the info.

 

[dawp]

there is a good probability that he would have done it anyways without her egging him on.

 

[HTFOff]

I only clicked the link to see if the broad was cute. Eww.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

there is a good probability that he would have done it anyways without her egging him on.

That comes back to a classic criminal law question. A man jumps from the roof of a building. Halfway down another man shoots him in the head. Is it murder or suicide? The law doesn't care what someone might have done.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

As a MA resident I believe she set up some kind of charity after his suicide and *may* have mishandled/forgot to donate the funds. I don't think this is what that trial is for but I'd guess its on deck next.
*important my facts may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember the above*

 

[UNCjigga]

I only clicked the link to see if the broad was cute. Eww.

Ahh fack you too, Go PATS!!! /Southie out!

 

[woolfe9998]

It's called depraved heart murder or depraved indifference to human life. Her actions of encouraging him knowing it would lead to serious injury or death is the crime. In some places its second degree murder. Most would be manslaughter.


From Debettencourt v. State.

That case you mentioned had to do with arson - setting a fire which unintentionally caused someone to die. In most states, that would be a first degree murder anyway. Felony murder - causing someone's death while in the course of committing another felony.

In any event, I agree that some form of reckless homicide is the likely theory here. However, I highly doubt that it sticks. For one thing, there is a problem of causation, meaning that his decision to kill himself was the direct cause of his death. He didn't have to listen to her when she told him to do it. I could see the argument if the person who died was a young child and the defendant was a parent, meaning the defendant had a lot of control over the victim's decisions. But here, I doubt she'll be convicted.

She made a wise choice to waive jury and have this heard by the judge. Her behavior was pretty shitty from a moral standpoint. A jury might have convicted her on emotion.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The case was arson. The undrlying reasoning of the judge is what stands in common law on the determination of depraved-heart.

 

[cfenton]

Can bullies be arrested for manslaughter? Bad bosses?

I doubt this case would have any implications for cases like that. In this case, she actively encouraged him to kill himself and even told him how to do it. I suppose a bully could do that, but it seems relevant that he trusted her in this case. It's hard to imagine even the worst boss helping you research how to kill yourself.

New there is a good probability that he would have done it anyways without her egging him on.

That's likely irrelevant. He could have been hit by a bus on the way to kill himself, but that wouldn't excuse the bus driver.

 

[HTFOff]

Ahh fack you too, Go PATS!!! /Southie out!

I was unaware of this meme until I googled southie.

Jokes on you pleighboi - I'm in NY and a giants fan.

 

[woolfe9998]

The case was arson. The undrlying reasoning of the judge is what stands in common law on the determination of depraved-heart.

Which doesn't change the fact that a theory which fits neatly into a case involving arson probably doesn't fit so neatly into this one.

I'm not criticizing your explanation of the theory BTW. It's really the only one available here. I just doubt it's going to fit.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I was unaware of this meme until I googled southie.

Jokes on you pleighboi - I'm in NY and a giants fan.

You're just tired of winning

 

[HTFOff]

You're just tired of winning

What's a winning?

I'm tired of losing. Nintendo just announced Pokemon ultra sun and moon - 3DS only. I sold my 3DS.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nothing new unfortunately. Been seeing stories like this for years. There are some seriously disturbed folks out there.

Like this guy who was arrested back in 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Melchert-Dinkel

or this guy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...ministrator-pleads-guilty-to-inciting-suicide

 

[ch33zw1z]

She needs to sit in jail the rest of her life.

What a bitch.

 

[Sunburn74]

Which doesn't change the fact that a theory which fits neatly into a case involving arson probably doesn't fit so neatly into this one.

I'm not criticizing your explanation of the theory BTW. It's really the only one available here. I just doubt it's going to fit.

I would agree I don't think the arson example fits as well. People are allowed to discuss and egg each other on (ie free speech) for things the government would otherwise call objectionable. If there was an eating contest and I encouraged someone to take one more bite of potato and then his stomach explodes and he dies, there is no crime there. I think its very hard to equate speech and ideas to reckless and dangerous behavior. If that was true, any book that promotes a character committing suicide would fall into an area of liability. If a book or a song promotes murder or suicide and a person does it, does that make the author and songwriter liable? It seems to violate constitutional rights here...

 

[Cozarkian]

Is suicide a crime there? If so, how about a theory of solicitation or conspiracy?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Is suicide a crime there? If so, how about a theory of solicitation or conspiracy?

Sorry I don't have a link. I heard on the local news she sent a text to a friend about how he (the boy friend) got scared and left the CO2 modified car. She told him to stop being afraid and get back into the car.

 

[Sunburn74]

Sorry I don't have a link. I heard on the local news she sent a text to a friend about how he (the boy friend) got scared and left the CO2 modified car. She told him to stop being afraid and get back into the car.

Pretty dasdardly. I'm just not sure it's a crime. I would say it violates free speech quite a bit and is a bit of a Pandora's box if she is found guilty. I fear it'd open up a lot of written literature and speeches and etc to criminal prosecution.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Pretty dasdardly. I'm just not sure it's a crime. I would say it violates free speech quite a bit and is a bit of a Pandora's box if she is found guilty. I fear it'd open up a lot of written literature and speeches and etc to criminal prosecution.

Point taken, just keep in mind that it applies to a woman who had a close relationship with someone with a known problem with depression and known to talk about taking his life. Not crazy to assume one needs use words smarter around a person like that. We're not talking about him reading news story or something else.

 

[who?]

She encouraged him to continue pursuing his goal when she should have told him to give up that goal.