Is there such a thing as an actual Christian?

[LunarRay]

Standing here I know the road goes from west to east... and in the distance a person hearing this shakes his head because he knows the road goes from east to west and yet another person hearing both proclaim with righteous indignation the knowledge and truth about this road simply smiles because he knows it don't much matter which way the road goes.... if you wish to go North...

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Davan

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Davan

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Davan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Davan
As a "true" Christian, how do you manage to live all these contradictions?

By understanding the context in which the words appear, rather than simply reading excerpts copy/pasted from anti-Christian websites.

OK explain it to me

Hmm.

Beloved one. I think this is politics and news . Not religious teachings for trolls.

I could ask for it to be moved to offtopic - Would you explain it to me there? Or would there be another excuse

Simply put you miss the entire reason behind the words. You chose sentences here and there to make a point, no better than a troll who choses 1 line out of an article to make a bias point. If you do not understand what religion is by now you never will. It cannot be taught, it comes with maturity, a maturity of understand the concept of what makes others tick, act. It can'tbe taught, you either have it or you do not. What is a true christian to you is not a true christian to someone else. The concept, basic teaching of christianity is the same though, everything besides that is just an aid to the faith.

OK If I miss the point then you can explain it to me. Im honestly curious. Here is a book that thousands of people put their faith into, and yet if "Christians" actually READ the book they would be scracthing their head, confused about the message and unsure what rules to follow and what rules not to follow. Here, we will start with something simple

Exodus 32:27 (New International Version)
27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' "

Exodus 20:13 (New International Version)
13 "You shall not murder.

Genesis 9:6
6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

Genesis 4:15 (New International Version)
15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so [a] ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.


Please tell me. Should I murder people or should I not murder people? And how do you know your way is the right one?

In the old testament many sins were punishable by death, the first and foremost being worshipping someone other than the true God. Its commandment number 1.The first verse you put up there (Exodus 32:27) is Moses (or Aaron, I don't have my bible with me) talking to the Levites, who later became the priests. These were the sons of Levi, one of the 12 tribes of Judah.

Anyhow, what happened was the people worshipped another God, and since that is sin #1 in the old testament, God ordered that they be killed.

So my explanation is: just as there is forgiveness in the new testament because of Jesus, there isn't much for certain sins in the old testament.

The heart of God is the heart of a warrior, as is the heart of a true Christian man.


As I explained, your shall not murder quote is a later commandment (5, maybe? 6? like I said I dont have my bible with me).

The first Genesis quote has to do with old testament also. Just as we have the justice system and capital punishment, if they killed someone then a judge would sentance and normally they would then themselves be killed (stoned most likely).

I have no idea why you included the quote about Cain but he was the first murderer and God wanted him to suffer for his sin so he put his mark on him to make sure he lived to be miserable and have to endure the knowledge he killed his brother for as long as he lived.



This is just one example of the many things that you listed. I could explain about 98% of those "contradictions" to you, but I don't have the time. What I suggest is you read the whole book, cover to cover, with references, and then go challenge a pastor if you still have issues with contradictions. Many people know the bible front to back and could help you even more than me to understand the many intricacies of the bible. It is obvious that you are really upset about something, and I apologize on behalf of all Christians if someone did something to hurt you, but please understand no Christian claims to be perfect, and we are all just people who make mistakes. Any more questions and you can feel free to PM me and I will answer and give you my cell number if you are interested. I am not going to preach to you but if you want to learn I will do my best to teach.


edit: in my first part I meant to say that Moses gathered the Levites still faithfull and told them to kill their sinning brothers, friends, etc. just to clarify.

 

[dmcowen674]

Religious Fanactics:

A threat abroad

A threat at home

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Religious Fanactics:

A threat abroad

A threat at home

I've come to see that everyone's religious, most extremely so; however, objects of worship vary greatly.

 

[Lazy8s]

Use the search in OT first bro. Some guy asked people to prove there were inconsistencies in the bible and I hit him with about 60 and he still hasn't answered. This topic has been visited and revisited over and over. Bottom line:

Christians can't admit there are inconsistencies because if 1 thing is false the whole thing could be false. On the other hand non-christians that actually study history know that after everything the bible has been through it's not suprising at all that there are inconsistencies and it's all possibly true even with them.

As for your question about how people can be cristian? It's easy, the bible doesn't have to be perfect for you to believe in it. It's supposed to be a guide, not some infallible book heralded above anything else. Even according to christianity you can have no gods above the one true god, therefore god>bible=belief no matter what the bible says.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Religious Fanactics:

A threat abroad

A threat at home

I've come to see that everyone's religious, most extremely so; however, objects of worship vary greatly.

And I assume this comment implies that you think atheism is religion too...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Use the search in OT first bro. Some guy asked people to prove there were inconsistencies in the bible and I hit him with about 60 and he still hasn't answered. This topic has been visited and revisited over and over. Bottom line:

Christians can't admit there are inconsistencies because if 1 thing is false the whole thing could be false. On the other hand non-christians that actually study history know that after everything the bible has been through it's not suprising at all that there are inconsistencies and it's all possibly true even with them.

As for your question about how people can be cristian? It's easy, the bible doesn't have to be perfect for you to believe in it. It's supposed to be a guide, not some infallible book heralded above anything else. Even according to christianity you can have no gods above the one true god, therefore god>bible=belief no matter what the bible says.

This guy walking down this little dirt road one day, heard another man screaming for help. He followed the voice a bit and came upon a lake where the man was drowning. There was a sign in front of the lake that said, "No Swimming Allowed." Now, should the man break the law, to help the drowning man, or obey the law, and allow the man to drown?

My point is that one does not have to look directly at the Bible to find inconsistencies, one only needs to look at morality, or right and wrong.

 

[mtn26bkr]

Yes there definitely is such a thing as a real Christian. There are a few main points on Chrisitianity in the Bible:
- Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for everyone's sins
- Christians should do two things (that are EQUALLY important) worship and love God and love your neighbors. These two generalizations cover all the details of what to do in everyday life.

I didn't read through all of the snippets from the Bible, but they need to be read in context. Things in the Old Testament and New Testament are addressing two very different times, pre and post Jesus. After Jesus's life people had a new knowledge and perspective on life and realized that some of their old beliefs were wrong or unnecessary. I noticed one thing on circumcision. Jews believe this is a law, but if you believe in Jesus this is not necessary.

I don't know that much about Christianity or the Bible, I've been slowly learning this past year. Christianity isn't about knowledge of texts but about a relation with Jesus. I can try to answer some questions about Christianity or the Bible.

 

[blackllotus]

The reason for pointing out the inconsistencies in the Bible is to show that it should not be taken literally and is not appropriate material to be used in politics. The vast majority of people, who oppose gay marriage, oppose it because of what they believe the Bible's views on it are. This wrong not only because the Bible should not be taken literally, but because it is morally wrong to force one's religious views on someone else. The same applies to abortion. It is utterly ridiculous to believe that a fetus deserves the same rights as a human being unless you believe that a person is defined by their "soul". The logic is that humans are equal no matter what stage of life they are at (including whether they are brain-dead or not) and that if something has a human soul then it deserves the same rights as all others with a human soul as well. Again, this goes back to the idea of forcing one's religion on everyone else. If you don't believe in abortions then don't have one. Don't dictate your religion to the rest of us. Bottom line is that the Bible should be interpreted for its moral messages on how to live your life, not how to force others to live theirs.

 

[MiniDoom]

Christianity always seemed a little weird and morbid to me. Using the cross as a symbol of their faith I don?t get. If Jesus was murdered today by electric chair would you use that as a symbol? And it almost seems some Christians look forward to death a little like some Muslims, 72 virgins, and pearly white gates of heaven, what?s the difference. I like to enjoy life one day at a time and when death arrives I will worry about what happens next then. Jesus died for my sins? No. I am responsible for my sins and I wasn?t born a sinner. Yes it is inevitable I will sin, but I wasn?t born evil or righteous for that matter.

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Use the search in OT first bro. Some guy asked people to prove there were inconsistencies in the bible and I hit him with about 60 and he still hasn't answered. This topic has been visited and revisited over and over. Bottom line:

Christians can't admit there are inconsistencies because if 1 thing is false the whole thing could be false. On the other hand non-christians that actually study history know that after everything the bible has been through it's not suprising at all that there are inconsistencies and it's all possibly true even with them.

As for your question about how people can be cristian? It's easy, the bible doesn't have to be perfect for you to believe in it. It's supposed to be a guide, not some infallible book heralded above anything else. Even according to christianity you can have no gods above the one true god, therefore god>bible=belief no matter what the bible says.

This guy walking down this little dirt road one day, heard another man screaming for help. He followed the voice a bit and came upon a lake where the man was drowning. There was a sign in front of the lake that said, "No Swimming Allowed." Now, should the man break the law, to help the drowning man, or obey the law, and allow the man to drown?

My point is that one does not have to look directly at the Bible to find inconsistencies, one only needs to look at morality, or right and wrong.

ok.....and?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Use the search in OT first bro. Some guy asked people to prove there were inconsistencies in the bible and I hit him with about 60 and he still hasn't answered. This topic has been visited and revisited over and over. Bottom line:

Christians can't admit there are inconsistencies because if 1 thing is false the whole thing could be false. On the other hand non-christians that actually study history know that after everything the bible has been through it's not suprising at all that there are inconsistencies and it's all possibly true even with them.

As for your question about how people can be cristian? It's easy, the bible doesn't have to be perfect for you to believe in it. It's supposed to be a guide, not some infallible book heralded above anything else. Even according to christianity you can have no gods above the one true god, therefore god>bible=belief no matter what the bible says.

The problem is not inconsistencies it is dealing with people who no matter what you tell them as an explanation will not understand!

There actually are no inconsistencies in the bible if you read things in the context passage and understand that there are 2 ages...the age of the Law and the age of grace.
old testament - law. New testament - Grace.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
There actually are no inconsistencies in the bible if you read things in the context passage and understand that there are 2 ages...the age of the Law and the age of grace.
old testament - law. New testament - Grace.

You could not be more wrong. There are hundred of thousands of inconsistancies in the New Testiment alone. People have written many many books on the subject, I suggest you read one. Bart Ehrman is very good.

 

[thepd7]

Did anyone actually read my post above? I explained one and showed how taking 2 excerpts randomly doesn't make a contradiction.


If any of you have actually read the whole bible then please, feel free to point out contradictions with context and I will try to address them. I am not saying there aren't any, just that all the stuff in the OP is random and taken out of context.

If you haven't read the whole thing and you are just taking passages off a website or a book, get informed and then berate Christians. I don't like having discussions with people who aren't informed.

 

[db]

Some people want to understand;
some people want to win the debate.

Whether you have a religion or an opinion, the above applies to you.
Everybody can learn something from this thread, but very few will, b/c they are too obsessed with defending their opinion/religion.

 

[1prophet]

Even Jesus pointed at the contradictions and the wisest religious, and intellectual leaders of the time were unable to refute him and just like today the religious and intellectual leaders took the greatest offense.

Matthew 12
1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

9And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.


Matthew 22

41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.


So then you may ask why all the contradictions and I ask you is it the bible that makes a person do good or evil or is it the nature of their heart?

 

[Todd33]

Leave it to religious kooks to kill intellectual conversations on religion...

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Leave it to religious kooks to kill intellectual conversations on religion...

All those who disagree with me are religious kooks since only I and those like me possess the intellect capable of conversation about the God that doesn't exist

 

[piasabird]

Before you go reading some trash on a website and believe it hook line and sinker you should at least open up a bible and see what the verses actually are saying! People like this website often misrepresent what the Bible says as shown below:

Any idiot can spread some lies around and claim they are the truth. You should be smart enough to identify a load of Cow Dung when you see it. Try reading the Bible for yourself, before you take someone elses word for what it says.

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
Bible realy says:
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good?.
And the evening and the morning were the bsixth? day.


God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
Bible Really Says:
5 ¶ And GOD saw that the awickedness? of man was great in the earth, and that every?
imagination of the thoughts? of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it arepented? the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it bgrieved?
him at his heart.

 

[bobdelt]

Being a christian has nothing to do with words. A religion is not a book, or words on a paper. Its a belief. Everyone, every christian believes differently. But they are still christians. How you define christian also can't be confined to one definition.

You might as well say the united states doesnt exist because a history book written 20 years ago isnt accurate.

Now the question you might be getting at is "can you be a perfect christian". And every christian would say, no you cant, which is a fundamental principal in christianity.

 

[thepd7]

I still haven't heard the OP who so wanted people to "explain it to me" answer me now that I have explained it. Or answer the other person above. I am not saying there are not any inconsistencies, I am not saying you can be perfect, but I am saying the website you took that from is saying there are hundreds or thousands, and thats just not correct. I went to the website and they were talking about how horrible the bible was because there was slavery in it. We had slaves in the US until 1860's, does that mean that every person in the US was evil? Also, if you read the whole bible, you will see laws about treating slaves correctly.

Originally posted by: db
Some people want to understand;
some people want to win the debate.

Whether you have a religion or an opinion, the above applies to you.
Everybody can learn something from this thread, but very few will, b/c they are too obsessed with defending their opinion/religion.

I have learned some people try and twist words to make people believe something that is incorrect while defending my religion. But the OP is the one that asked me to explain, so I did. I am not here to preach to people.

 

[thepd7]

op still mia to answer me?