Is there still hope for the US?

[fuzzybabybunny]

So only recently have I really sat down to read about some of the issues and history going on about the economy, and I'm very concerned.

The last time we had this much debt and carried such a high debt to GDP ratio was WWII, but that was because we were in a full blown, costly war, and we were able to recover and pay down our debt quickly because taxes were high, we were the leading superpower, we were the world's manufacturing base with no competition, and had vast amounts of oil and other resources. Basically, we had a prosperous economy to back us up.

Foward to today:

1. Again, humongous debt, only this time...
2. Taxes at an all time low.
3. Domestic manufacturing is dying and China outcompetes us in this regard.
4. We have SS costs coming up from baby boomers.
5. We import nearly everything and export nearly nothing ie. Our cash is being transferred overseas.
6. We continue to spend more than we take in.
7. The people are unwilling or unable to bear cuts to their social programs.
8. We have leadership that continually tries to increase spending while keeping taxes (revenue) low. And the things they spend on won't necessarily bring in new revenue.
9. Our debt seems like it's starting to get to the point of going out of control... are we already there?
10. Our debt is owned by foreign countries.

Everything seems aligned in our disfavor. Is there any turning back? What's our competitive edge nowadays? All I can think of is Silicon Valley.

 

[JSt0rm]

we have been in 2 wars for the last 10 years.

 

[Doppel]

I'd say it's an imperative as a human to try and be hopeful. Further, i'd say that practically speaking the US has a lot going for it. Worse case tomorrow it wakes up, writes off all US dollars as completely worthless and creates a new currency. It still has resources, infrastructure, relatively homogenous population (i.e. no ethnic wars), educated populous, etc. and even in that scenario it still really wouldn't be a bad place to be, so yes there's hope.

Politics of the country are a complete farce though and hurting life for the majority.

 

[a777pilot]

This country is about to go on a growth binge the likes of which this old earth has never seen. It starts with the vote on 6 NOV 2012 and the inauguration of anyone but Bobo, the Post Turtle, on 20 JAN 2013.

I have complete faith in this country.

 

[Engineer]

This country is about to go on a growth binge the likes of which this old earth has never seen. It starts with the vote on 6 NOV 2012 and the inauguration of anyone but Bobo, the Post Turtle, on 20 JAN 2013.

I have complete faith in this country.

Obama is not going to fix it....the next guy isn't going to fix it. Unless we change the way we value jobs that create and share wealth (edit for clarity: share of national wealth in the form of higher wages - not redistribution by government collections) in this country, down the drain we go!!!

Hey OP, how did finding a couple off offshore, cheap labor people for your business turn out? :hmm:

 

[Nebor]

This country is about to go on a growth binge the likes of which this old earth has never seen. It starts with the vote on 6 NOV 2012 and the inauguration of anyone but Bobo, the Post Turtle, on 20 JAN 2013.

I have complete faith in this country.

If you think changing out one politician who's acted just like the last one did for 8 years before that is going to change anything.... Well, I guess you don't realize how the system works. No matter who gets elected, it won't change this ship's course. And it's headed for the rocks.

 

[a777pilot]

Obama is not going to fix it....the next guy isn't going to fix it. Unless we change the way we value jobs that create and share wealth in this country, down the drain we go!!!

Hey OP, how did finding a couple off offshore, cheap labor people for your business turn out? :hmm:

Here it is again. I said early on that the two underlying issues of Bobo, the Post Turtle's, campaign will be redistribution of wealth and racism. Here we see the redistribution one. OH, it's just that there are rich people. If we just take their money and make things more fair for those that are lazy and/or stupid.

LOL!

 

[Engineer]

Here it is again. I said early on that the two underlying issues of Bobo, the Post Turtle's, campaign will be redistribution of wealth and racism. Here we see the redistribution one. OH, it's just that there are rich people. If we just take their money and make things more fair for those that are lazy and/or stupid.

LOL!

I didn't say anything about taking anyone's money. I said that if we didn't change the way we are sending wealth building (manufacturing jobs) jobs, which tend to pay much better on top of making stuff, out of this country, we are doomed. Nothing in there about taking anyone's money so give it a rest. Just look at every recession before the 2003 recession and compare manufacturing jobs created after the recession was over and the effects on the recovery for a clue.

Funny, Nebor stated basically the same thing as I did (in a different way) and nothing was thrown at him? :hmm:

 

[Dulanic]

Here it is again. I said early on that the two underlying issues of Bobo, the Post Turtle's, campaign will be redistribution of wealth and racism. Here we see the redistribution one. OH, it's just that there are rich people. If we just take their money and make things more fair for those that are lazy and/or stupid.

LOL!

Instead we make the capital gains tax rate 0 and watch the rich horde the money and send the jobs to china. Wonderful plan.

 

[a777pilot]

I didn't say anything about taking anyone's money dumbass.

This what you said....

Unless we change the way we value jobs that create and share wealth in this country, down the drain we go!!!

If that is NOT what you intended to say, well, that's not my probem.

Please try again and I will listen to what you have to say.

 

[JSt0rm]

This what you said....



If that is NOT what you intended to say, well, that's not my probem.

Please try again and I will listen to what you have to say.

You collect 3 government checks and dont work. Fuck off.

 

[a777pilot]

Instead we make the capital gains tax rate 0 and watch the rich horde the money and send the jobs to china. Wonderful plan.

Not only do I want to see the capitol gains tax go to zero, I want NO tax at all on any income from any source. Also, I want no tax on private real property.

Seeing how you brought up China and over sea jobs, can you make a wild guess as to why jobs are going over seas?

 

[Engineer]

This what you said....



If that is NOT what you intended to say, well, that's not my probem.

Please try again and I will listen to what you have to say.

Sharing wealth does not equal taking someone else's money and giving it away. Higher wages = higher share of national wealth. Manufacturing jobs = creating wealth and have higher share of national wealth in the form of higher wages. Without those kinds of jobs, we are doomed to fail on service jobs as the foundation of lower and lower middle classes crumble. There is a real reason that 45% of the working population have now fallen below taxable levels in this country.


I once read the 7 steps of decline of every empire in history. Step #6 was relying on slave labor from your conquered lands for your goods and services. We are well on our way.

Finally, and apology for calling your a dumbass. It was not warranted and my wording was not clear. Again, my apologies.

 

[Nebor]

Not only do I want to see the capitol gains tax go to zero, I want NO tax at all on any income from any source. Also, I want no tax on private real property.

Seeing how you brought up China and over sea jobs, can you make a wild guess as to why jobs are going over seas?

Because labor is cheaper there and the cost of exporting the products of that labor are now sufficiently low to make doing so worthwhile.

 

[Engineer]

Not only do I want to see the capitol gains tax go to zero, I want NO tax at all on any income from any source. Also, I want no tax on private real property.

So just how are we to fund the government services, even stripped down ones, then?

 

[Nebor]

You collect 3 government checks and dont work. Fuck off.

At least if things get bad and inflation takes off he'll be hosed with a fixed income.

 

[Nebor]

So just how are we to fund the government services, even stripped down ones, then?

His plan is simple: Gay marriage and abortion taxes at 15,000%.

 

[Engineer]

His plan is simple: Gay marriage and abortion taxes at 15,000%.

I suspect that he will state sales and consumption taxes.

 

[JSt0rm]

taxing consumption so people stop consuming = SMART

 

[kranky]

I'm finding it more difficult to be optimistic but not because of the politicians. Because of the public in general. They elect whatever candidate runs the most commercials. They don't hold officials or each other accountable for their behavior. They think browsing the Google news page means they are well-informed.

If the public really wanted politicians who served the public interest instead of the lobbyists' interests and the interests of the wealthy and well-connected, they would be informed, and candidates who weren't all lawyers and millionaires could get elected.

 

[MovingTarget]

Yes, albeit slim. We must reject the free trade dogma that permeates our politics. Then and only then can we rebuild our manufacturing base. We need a cohesive trade policy that promotes domestic manufacturing and consumption. From there, we must finally realize that trickle-down economics (i.e. voodoo economics) is a failure. Demand drives economic activity moreso than supply, and that is what has been missing lately in our economic equation.

 

[a777pilot]

Sharing wealth does not equal taking someone else's money and giving it away. Higher wages = higher share of national wealth. Manufacturing jobs = creating wealth and have higher share of national wealth in the form of higher wages. Without those kinds of jobs, we are doomed to fail on service jobs as the foundation of lower and lower middle classes crumble. There is a real reason that 45% of the working population have now fallen below taxable levels in this country.


I once read the 7 steps of decline of every empire in history. Step #6 was relying on slave labor from your conquered lands for your goods and services. We are well on our way.

Finally, and apology for calling your a dumbass. It was not warranted and my wording was not clear. Again, my apologies.

I agree.

Thanks for the re-statement of your position.

I am a dumbass, just ask my wife.

 

[a777pilot]

So just how are we to fund the government services, even stripped down ones, then?

I want to replace the income and property taxes with a sales/consumption/transfer tax. It would be much more fair, for all concerned, rich and poor.

 

[a777pilot]

I suspect that he will state sales and consumption taxes.

Transfers too.

 

[JSt0rm]

I want to replace the income and property taxes with a sales/consumption/transfer tax. It would be much more fair, for all concerned, rich and poor.

ignorant