Is there still a wait list for the GT-R?

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
and how many people who posted in this thread could actually afford a GT-R?

If you weren't buying so many crunchers, I bet you could.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
and how many people who posted in this thread could actually afford a GT-R?

I could. My wife's modeling contract just got extended, so we have been thinking of a beater when we do those drives around Monaco.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
and how many people who posted in this thread could actually afford a GT-R?

I could, but between the car payment and insurance, I'd be hard pressed to pay rent, let alone gas.

 

[ayabe]

Sorry but NSX's are still teh sex, and I'm sure they will be 20 years from now.

The earlier ones slightly less so because of the headlights.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

The Japanese sports cars of that era have held up extremely well in terms of looks in my opinion.
My 1990 300ZX twin turbo still turns heads and I've actually gotten more "holy crap what is that" comments in the last few years than I remeber getting before.
As mentioned, the RX7 and NSX are both still easy on the eyes too.
While not quite in the same sector (i.e sports cars), the 2nd generation DSM's were fairly decent looking.
While not my taste, the Supra is still held in high regard by many.
Putting aside the fact that I own 2 Nissans already (the other being my 1995 240SX, which is still my daily driver at 193,000 miles) I tend to shop more for function that style.
You simply can't negate the level of performance the GT-R provides.
Ugly, pretty, marginal.....I don't care, the machine is a screamer.
The damn thing threw out Clarkson's neck, if its's too much car for him, then who is man enough for it anyways.
The main thing to remember, redline clutch dumps are hell on any transmission, but you're making it even worse with an AWD layout.
3000GTs would eat through transmissions, as did DSMs and I know I've heard more than a few comments about WRXs having "glass trannies".
Don't beat the piss out of your $80,000 toy and if you do, your own dumb ass should be paying for it.
All that aside, I'd still give my left nut for a ZR-1.

 

[fstime]

Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

I get what you're saying, but improvements have been made in safety, brakes, reliability, and affordability. The 300ZX TT (which blew away pretty much everything in 1990 save the ZR-1) was quite expensive. Comparing 1990 dollars to 2009 dollars, the 370Z is a good deal, ditto the Mustang GT.

I 100% agree that Mazda dropped the ball with sports cars. Mitsubishi threw in the towel (the new Eclipse performs about like a V6 Camry FFS), Acura dropped the NSX, Honda dropped the Prelude and S2000.

Toyota completely abandoned all attempts at performance cars, after building an iconic sports-car nameplate in the Supra.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

 

[mb]

No. I know a dealer that has 3 of them for sale. Two new 2010 models below MSRP and one 2009 model.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

Corvette in 1990 wasn't 435hp, it was ~250hp, and there was a very expensive LT5-based 375HP ZR-1, which was roughly twice the cost of a regular Vette (which was close in price to the 300ZXTT).

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

Corvette in 1990 wasn't 435hp, it was ~250hp, and there was a very expensive LT5-based 375HP ZR-1, which was roughly twice the cost of a regular Vette (which was close in price to the 300ZXTT).

We're comparing past to present amigo.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

Corvette in 1990 wasn't 435hp, it was ~250hp, and there was a very expensive LT5-based 375HP ZR-1, which was roughly twice the cost of a regular Vette (which was close in price to the 300ZXTT).

We're comparing past to present amigo.

Ah, got it. Back in 1990, the 300ZX was an easily superior choice over a 250hp C4 Vette, but nowadays they inhabit pretty different markets segments.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

It's got more to do with superior construction of the entire engine than just the iron block

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: lsd

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

It's got more to do with superior construction of the entire engine than just the iron block

Iron blocks rule when it comes to pushing huge amounts of HP out of engines with FI.

Love the audi 2.7TT too, just wish they came with more robust turbos from the factory.

It's also pretty interesting if you think about how none of these cars had variable-vane turbos, direct injection, or even variable valve timing in some cases.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

You said specifically "Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple of years..." If you wanted to say plain facts, you could say "Since the reliability is unproven, the turbos could start failing in the next few years," even though there is no current evidence to lead anyone to believe the tuning companies are anywhere near the danger zones on the turbos, and there is enough evidence to believe they have done sufficient testing to prove the contrary since they warranty the drive train with the tunes they sell.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

You said specifically "Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple of years..." If you wanted to say plain facts, you could say "Since the reliability is unproven, the turbos could start failing in the next few years," even though there is no current evidence to lead anyone to believe the tuning companies are anywhere near the danger zones on the turbos, and there is enough evidence to believe they have done sufficient testing to prove the contrary since they warranty the drive train with the tunes they sell.

Just speaking from personal experience when raising the boost significantly on "snail" like turbos and keeping them in that state for long periods of time. It's fine though, I can see why x35i owners are going crazy over their power plant though, I don't see the craze personally since similar tuning options have been offered over a decade ago and i've moved on from the whole scene. Maybe some of us are just getting too old.

Oh yeah, i'd better be getting a warranty after paying those overinflated BMW-taxed prices to those tuners. Gotta love $4,000 exhausts and ECU tunes.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: lsd

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

It's all good, they have a warranty from Dinan. I'd be highly surprised by their failure, most turbo's can handle far more than the stock tuning gives them simply for drivability. Only car guys like the way turbo's spool up, BMW owners want smooth power delivery.

Kind of showed some bias there, the supra can gain 50hp reliably, but because it's new and BMW the 135, 335, and 535 can't.

Supra's run around that are pushing 500-900 hp on the street to this day 15 years later.

The reliability of the cast iron inline 6 in far more proven than the BMW's which has only been out for a few years. There is no bias in pointing out plain facts. Never said they are destined to fail, but its too early too tell.

It's got more to do with superior construction of the entire engine than just the iron block

Iron blocks rule when it comes to pushing huge amounts of HP out of engines with FI.

Love the audi 2.7TT too, just wish they came with more robust turbos from the factory.

It's also pretty interesting if you think about how none of these cars had variable-vane turbos, direct injection, or even variable valve timing in some cases.

Like I said it's got has to do with the Pistons, rods the rest of the motor. The early R32-R34 skylines all had iron closed deck blocks but they can not make the HP the 2JZ does reliably. The Forged coated skirt pistons, rod cap screws instead if bolts, MLS headgasket, etc etc are what make the 2JZ so great.
The new GTR has a plasma lined AL block and so far people are having no issues in the 600rwhp range with the block itself. Different story with the rest of the motor.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

Dude I agree with you 100% on being a little letdown with new Z cars, but as the others have stated, the new Z is in a completely different class.
As much as it saddens me to say this, the Z32 was far less successful than the Z33/34 have proven to be commercially.
The best way to view the modern Z is as a modern S car.
I still have the window sticker from my 240, sold in late 1994 at 22k, corrected for inflation that is right about 30k which is exactly the price point the 370Z sits at now.
The 240 sat in roughly in the same section of the food chain as the Z does now as well.
Calculating in inflation, my Z new works out to around 65k, which is in the ballpark of the GT-R at least in terms of market segment.
If it makes you feel better about the whole deal, the spiritual successor to the 300ZX twin turbo worked out to be one hell of a machine.

 

[Arkaign]

Nismo, that's probably the best explanation ever of the issues with Nissan performance cars. It had been bugging me forever how the 1990 300ZXTT was a total monster, rivaling or outdoing pretty much everything in the price range (and cars costing much more as well), yet when the 350Z came out, it came with mediocre performance to go with the midrange price. A 1990 300ZXTT would shame the 1990 Vette (and come into at least striking distance of the incredible 1990 ZR-1), but the 2003 350Z would whimper in the mere presence of a 2003 Vette.

Thinking of the 350Z as the modern 240SX in terms of price and standing makes a lot more sense.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Modern day sports cars are a joke.

The 300ZX twin turbo came out in 1990 ffs with 300 hp.

What did we get 10 years later? Some 350Z piece of crap and 18 years later we are getting a 370Z which is marginally better with 35 more horses.

The RX-7 gets replaced by a boring RX-8 and the Supra gets replaced with......well nothing.


People are sweating bullets over a 3.0 BMW twin turbo which puts out 300 hp in 2009 when Toyota was pushing 300hp/320 ft-lbs in 1992 with close to no lag sequential turbos in a 3500 pound package.

Acura, I won't even go there...

The funniest thing is, almost all of these cars aged great and only started to look dated up to around the year 2000.

The way I understand it the 300zx taking into account the changes in the dollar was closer to the Corvette in pricing (which has 435hp). The new Z cars are equal to or faster than the 300ZX, are safer, and have lower emmissions. The progress was towards efficiency. Mazda's cars are most definitely more boring, and Toyota dropped the ball, but they're all in a better economic position because of it.

The BMW twin turbo goes up to 385hp and 435 lb.ft with a simple tune, once again, it's tuned towards emissions and drivability.

I believe my good friends Supra gained 50 horse with an just an exhaust, extremely de-tuned engine from the factory.

He had 400hp to the wheels with an just an ECU, CAI, Exhaust, and maybe a downpipe and all that power being delivered reliably.

All these modded 335i's are still too new to judge reliability. Wouldn't be surprised if the turbos on them start failing in a couple years like all the modded B5 S4's.

Dynos on the 335i show about 280HP going to the wheels so people estimate the car is actually making more like 325HP. A simple ECU addition (10 secs) supposedly add 50HP and that is with the light version. My 335i feels significantly faster than my former G35 which had 298HP.

I have great faith in BMW engines so I'm hoping for the best. German electronics on the other hand..well I have to take my 2 month old car in to get a new stereo because it refuses to turn on once in a while. How can a $40K+ car have a stereo that does not turn on?!?

 

[Doggiedog]

Oh, I was in college during the good old days of sports cars/sedans: 300ZXTT, Supra TT, RX7, NSX, 3000GT, M3, 240SX, Corrado, GTI 16V, Eclipse Turbo, Starion Turbo, MX-6 Turbo, Prelude, Celica GTS, Galant VR4, Buick Grand National, Trans Am, Firebird, Monte Carlo SS, Hyundai Scoupe (not).

What great cars they had back then. Too bad I couldn't afford any of them.

I think if we were able to look into the future back then and see in 2009 that cars are regularly making over 250HP including "family" cars, we would be pretty impressed. Maybe in 20 years when we are running on fuel cells or electricity, we would be looking back at all the HP we used to have but are happy getting 100MPG instead.

 

[Arkaign]

Heh, I know what you mean Doggie, I've owned a few of the cars on that list, but only used by either a couple years or sometimes a lot more. 3000GT VR-4, 2G Eclipse GS-T, Prelude (2 of those, a 3g and a 5g w/Jackson SC), E39 M5, and that's about it for my cars that haven't just been run-of-the-mill. Oh well, I'm a family man now, I'll make do with the Focus and similar until my son is off to college, unless I can afford a weekender like I hope to.