Sounds like someone is getting hooked! MustangSVT, beware, once you're hooked you will spend countless hours and money into this hobby!
- Oct 7, 2000
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- Oct 7, 2000
- 11,554
- 12
- 81
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
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- 0
This comes down to a preferance of handling vs. power.
Straight line a new Mustang GT will bitch-slap a Type-R. Around corners the Type-R will probably get by it, but in the hands of two excellent drivers around your standard race track I'd place bets on the Mustang. Given it's rear-wheel drive and superior power out of the turns I think it would more than make up for the Type-R's finesse around the corners.
Isn't a basic bottom-of-the-line V8 mustang cheaper than an entry Type-R?
I like some of the japanesse sporty cars like the Type-r, prelude, and what not but if you're looking for an inexpensive way to kick some butt a Mustang is a good way to do it...and instead of being mixed in with the rice-rockets (by people who don't know what a type-r is actually a fast car) it is undeniable when you rev that V8
Straight line a new Mustang GT will bitch-slap a Type-R. Around corners the Type-R will probably get by it, but in the hands of two excellent drivers around your standard race track I'd place bets on the Mustang. Given it's rear-wheel drive and superior power out of the turns I think it would more than make up for the Type-R's finesse around the corners.
Isn't a basic bottom-of-the-line V8 mustang cheaper than an entry Type-R?
I like some of the japanesse sporty cars like the Type-r, prelude, and what not but if you're looking for an inexpensive way to kick some butt a Mustang is a good way to do it...and instead of being mixed in with the rice-rockets (by people who don't know what a type-r is actually a fast car) it is undeniable when you rev that V8
Street Compact Car actually had an article where they pitted an Integra Type R vs a 2000 Mustang GT. The Type R came away with the handling awards, the GT with anything that has to do with timeslips/acceleration. But then again, you don't buy an American V8 for its handling ability.
- Oct 7, 2000
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actually ive read that MRs dont have that good performance both in accel or handling. (cpmpared to TypeR) and those new Boxter Mr from toyota have even worse performance.
I dunno, how 'bout a BMW M3 or M5? Perhaps the M3 roadster... or a Mazda Rx7 or Toyata Supra Turbo... Hondas are overrated shoe boxes.
I have a question. Are you going to only run your car on a track or on long, twisty roads? If not, then small differences in handling matter less than the attractiveness of the car to you. In other words, your friend may be a car nut but you don't have to be. Buy whatever the hell you feel like and be proud of it.
Have a nice day
Have a nice day
mustangsvt, One thing that I did not see mentioned that deserves heavy consideration, fit and finish. I've had friends with mustang GT's from the early 90's, one has a 97 Cobra and another has a 99 GT. One common complaint they all seem to have is fit and finish problems. The mustangs from the early 90's had problems with 2nd and 3rd gear in the transmission going out and the rear differential. The 97 Cobra has had numerous trips back to the dealership for window openers that decide to go out in a 3mo old car, creeks and rattles, not 6mo later the CD player acts funny, etc. The list goes on and on. I'm not sure if that friend was just being picky but the same things almost never happen to friends that own hondas. For what it is and what it does performance wise the Japanese cars are a tad on the expensive side. For what it is and what it does the Mustang is a tad on the cheap side. I guess the heavy consideration that Ford has put in bottomline price results in corner cutting (a mainstay of american cars) and manifests itself as lousy fit and finish and over all cheap quality. It might be a good idea to read up on those Road and Track and Car and Driver long term daily driver articles on the Mustangs and see what problems they seem to have AFTER you owned it for a bit.
I am in favor of Mustang Gt's as you can see I am a prowd owner My 86 Gt But like wyvrn what do you want to do with the car? he he I think for the $$ the mustang wins. I have invested 5000$ in my car when I got it. It was a POS. paint tires rims motor work on and on and on . Now I have a PC to mod.
. Now I have a PC to mod.
- Oct 7, 2000
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The quality issue is true. My friend mentioned about plastic pieces falling off a mustang after a year on his friends. Dang. but i just love that new look! Anyways i appreciate the detailed explanation about the things u talked about eia430, thank you. Now i must read that review on TypeR vs. Mustang GT but the one i found didnt have that article on (Sport compact car), anyone know the month that's covered?
Well when i was looking for that issue i found another one of my fav car, SKYLINE R33, damn y dont they bring this beauty along with Silvia and Evo series to US? dang...
Well when i was looking for that issue i found another one of my fav car, SKYLINE R33, damn y dont they bring this beauty along with Silvia and Evo series to US? dang...
Ford used to make a car that handled well...the SVT Contour. One of the best handlers under 30K.
Straightline, the Integra and Rustang would beat it, but it's supreme in handling!
Straightline, the Integra and Rustang would beat it, but it's supreme in handling!
I have put 25k miles on my 2000GT. I have driven it hard. My friend has a yellow 2000 Type R. In straight lines, it is not a contest. On curves he pulls away. More straight road and then I pull ahead. I would imagine in a 99 cobra or a 2001(if they make them) that the IRS would help even the handling. The Integra would still pull away in curves, but not by much. The 99 or 01 Cobra's power would kill the Integra in acceleration. It all comes down to what you like. Both cars rev high. The Cobra revs to 7K the ITR 8500. More torque and hp in the Cobra.
Cobra has RWD vs. Type R's FWD. More aftermarket for Cobra.
As for my 2000, I have only had a few problems. One was a belt tensioner on the pulleys that went bad. Replaced under warranty in about 15 minutes. My AC clutch also gave up and I now have a squeaky AC. It still cools fine just squeaky. The AC is covered under warranty and I am having it fixed next week. The interior has been flawless. Only complaint I have about the exterior is the non-workable hood scoop. It likes to collect water after a car wash, so I have to get it extra dry. ITR doesn't have leather. It has cloth racing seats. The ITR's seats are badass though. They really feel soft and hold you in. Not much backseat room for the ITR and the Mustang only has a little bit bigger backseat. Mustang has a lot more trunk room. Sound system in the Mustang is better. The 2001's now have a six-disc changer with the MACH460. I think they are pretty equal cars. What do you have more fun doing? Quick acceleration and a badass sound, or fast through turns and a very rare car? You pick.
Cobra has RWD vs. Type R's FWD. More aftermarket for Cobra.
As for my 2000, I have only had a few problems. One was a belt tensioner on the pulleys that went bad. Replaced under warranty in about 15 minutes. My AC clutch also gave up and I now have a squeaky AC. It still cools fine just squeaky. The AC is covered under warranty and I am having it fixed next week. The interior has been flawless. Only complaint I have about the exterior is the non-workable hood scoop. It likes to collect water after a car wash, so I have to get it extra dry. ITR doesn't have leather. It has cloth racing seats. The ITR's seats are badass though. They really feel soft and hold you in. Not much backseat room for the ITR and the Mustang only has a little bit bigger backseat. Mustang has a lot more trunk room. Sound system in the Mustang is better. The 2001's now have a six-disc changer with the MACH460. I think they are pretty equal cars. What do you have more fun doing? Quick acceleration and a badass sound, or fast through turns and a very rare car? You pick.
millenium, you said...
"My friend has a yellow 2000 Type R. In straight lines, it is not a contest. On curves he pulls away"
An average driver can get closer to the mechanichal limits of handleing on the Integra. It being front drive gives it inherit stability near the edge hence people feel more comfortable being closer to the edge. It also is more forgiving of steering mistakes such as over or under correction or not being steady with the wheel. When you make a mistake a front driver 9 out of 10 times will simply "push" or understeer. I'm not assailing your driving skills with your mustang but he might simply be using more of the car's capability than you are. Give road racing a shot (SCCA sanctioned, not the suicidal street kind) on a race track you might be more comfortable geting closer to the limits of your car. When you have the proper skills to get closer to the handleing limits of a rear drive car you should be able to control the attitude (angle of the car relative to it's path on the curve) of the car at will. There is more inherit control from a rear drive car than a front drive car. The popular belief that on equal footing a front driver is better than a rear driver in handleing is VERY false. When was the last time you saw a front drive formula 1 car? (answer is NEVER) I'm willing to bet that when you are able to use more of your car's capability through practice on a track then your friend will not pull away from you in the curves.
Of course the most idiotic thing in the world to do is to drive beyond your skills which will just get you killed. Just in case... I would also like to point out, just to make sure you are well aware of this. That a rear wheel car has the funny tendency of sometimes loosing traction of the rear wheels near the limit. This will cause an event called oversteer which will point the nose of the car towards the inside of the curve. Without proper steering input on the driver's part this will either cause the car to spin out or head in a straight line in an unintended direction (usualy off the road) either case has a high chance of resulting in a car crash. I'm sure you being a mustang driver already knows this, but I mentioned it just in case.
"My friend has a yellow 2000 Type R. In straight lines, it is not a contest. On curves he pulls away"
An average driver can get closer to the mechanichal limits of handleing on the Integra. It being front drive gives it inherit stability near the edge hence people feel more comfortable being closer to the edge. It also is more forgiving of steering mistakes such as over or under correction or not being steady with the wheel. When you make a mistake a front driver 9 out of 10 times will simply "push" or understeer. I'm not assailing your driving skills with your mustang but he might simply be using more of the car's capability than you are. Give road racing a shot (SCCA sanctioned, not the suicidal street kind) on a race track you might be more comfortable geting closer to the limits of your car. When you have the proper skills to get closer to the handleing limits of a rear drive car you should be able to control the attitude (angle of the car relative to it's path on the curve) of the car at will. There is more inherit control from a rear drive car than a front drive car. The popular belief that on equal footing a front driver is better than a rear driver in handleing is VERY false. When was the last time you saw a front drive formula 1 car? (answer is NEVER) I'm willing to bet that when you are able to use more of your car's capability through practice on a track then your friend will not pull away from you in the curves.
Of course the most idiotic thing in the world to do is to drive beyond your skills which will just get you killed. Just in case... I would also like to point out, just to make sure you are well aware of this. That a rear wheel car has the funny tendency of sometimes loosing traction of the rear wheels near the limit. This will cause an event called oversteer which will point the nose of the car towards the inside of the curve. Without proper steering input on the driver's part this will either cause the car to spin out or head in a straight line in an unintended direction (usualy off the road) either case has a high chance of resulting in a car crash. I'm sure you being a mustang driver already knows this, but I mentioned it just in case.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
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I am sure that millenium knows what oversteer is but your post is still great I think you are right about handling of front/rear and how it feels to people...my brother recently went to a pricey race track and took lessons and came out at the end of the day convinced that rear wheel drive was the way to go...
I think you are right about handling of front/rear and how it feels to people...my brother recently went to a pricey race track and took lessons and came out at the end of the day convinced that rear wheel drive was the way to go...
- Oct 7, 2000
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damn damn damn! now im drooling here. i dotn wanna be a gear head.. i dotn wanna spend my money and time on cars... tooo expansi..... dang too late!
its all eia430's fault ! now im surfin the web looking just for car stuff! haha and its damn FUN!
guess what i found those SkyLINE that are modified to be driven in US, but im not sure if it's worth 80k+ dang.. and to get new parts it'll cost my arm. here is the Link
i think corvette performs better for less then that.
but im more in range of 20k or 30k price range hehe no supercars for me yet.. but fun to look at them.
its all eia430's fault ! now im surfin the web looking just for car stuff! haha and its damn FUN!
guess what i found those SkyLINE that are modified to be driven in US, but im not sure if it's worth 80k+ dang.. and to get new parts it'll cost my arm. here is the Link
i think corvette performs better for less then that.
but im more in range of 20k or 30k price range hehe no supercars for me yet.. but fun to look at them.
- Oct 7, 2000
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mustangsvt, The Skyline is a very formidable car, it takes a very logical approach to speed. Medium sized motor, two low mass turbos, 50/50 fr/rear weight balance and a two differential viscus coupled 4 wheel drive among other things. The Skyline is actualy banned from competing in many races (like the audi 4wd cars)because it's 4wd offers too much of an advantage(the ultimate in stability and controlability). The bad thing is it's price and it's also is not imported into the US, if you do find one it is a "grey market" car and most likely will be EXTREMELY expensive.
Before you buy a car I highly suggest that you at least go to one or two SCCA events. Or autocrosses and roadraces by other clubs, like the Porche car club, the BMW car club, etc. Get the real inside scoop on all these different cars from the owners themselves and see how they do out on the track. Do your homework first, ask owners about the things they like/dislike about their cars etc. And understand that going fast is quite expensive. You chew up tires, shocks, transmissions, brakes, engines, etc, when you go fast. If you can't afford to spend $2500 to get your transmision rebuilt every now and then or $1500 for a rear differential, $800 for new tires every 15000 miles etc, then I suggest don't go fast. Going fast is fun, but a very expensive hobby.
Before you buy a car I highly suggest that you at least go to one or two SCCA events. Or autocrosses and roadraces by other clubs, like the Porche car club, the BMW car club, etc. Get the real inside scoop on all these different cars from the owners themselves and see how they do out on the track. Do your homework first, ask owners about the things they like/dislike about their cars etc. And understand that going fast is quite expensive. You chew up tires, shocks, transmissions, brakes, engines, etc, when you go fast. If you can't afford to spend $2500 to get your transmision rebuilt every now and then or $1500 for a rear differential, $800 for new tires every 15000 miles etc, then I suggest don't go fast. Going fast is fun, but a very expensive hobby.
- Mar 20, 2000
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a regular integra gs or gsr, whatever it is, is about $20,000, and has almost the same handling characteristics as an ITR, right? main difference is a lower powered motor. so, for the few grand extra, get a supercharger for the gsr, and it will out accelerate any ITR, ever supercharged ones. (the ITR's engine is so tweaked as it is it doesn't supercharge well). it may lose a little bit in the corners, but will gain in the straights. may need some big brakes to slow down the supercharged gsr. i think you might be able to to the same with a z28 or gt.
There are more differences between the Type-R than just the engine. Quite a few things make the Type-R handle better. The suspension setup is more aggresive on the Type-R, the sway bars are bigger, and the Type-R has a LSD while the GSR doesn't.
The Type-R should handle forced induction just as well as any Integra. DRAG turbo kits are available for all Integra models.
The Type-R should handle forced induction just as well as any Integra. DRAG turbo kits are available for all Integra models.
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