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Is there not a thread about the Quran/Koran protests yet?

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Originally posted by: magomago
Wel Astaroth if the world would be better without Islam the first thing I could think is the fact that we not have ancient copies of many Greek texts. You know it was that religious wacko Muslims who want to kill and hide all information about infidels who went, copied the texts, wrote their own analyses and expanded their own branch of philosophy based on these texts...and then later when Europe was "rebouding" they got their copies via the arabic translations and many were intrigued by treatsies written by the "mussel men".

But meh, we'd also be better without ancient philosophy as well...
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Yes, Islamic culture had a civilization during the Middle Ages that existed while Europeans were running around in suits of armor while wallowing in their own sh!t, figuratively speaking. However, that was a LONG time ago. What has Islamic culture achieved in the last few hundred years, other than the invention of the religiously motivated suicide bomber?
 
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
maybe they should worry more about how unislamic let alone unethical it is to sell death to the youth of the world with their massive exports of drugs.
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Didn't the Taliban try to put an end to heroin production in Afghanistan?
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Text
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the taliban didn't care one way or the other, whatever was convenient to them was ok.. and thats the point. there was no islamic outrage then over it..and there is no islamic rage over it now.
 
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/13/afghan.protests/index.html

I figured this would have been talked about quite a bit on here already

The interrogators at Guantonimo(sp) are alleged to have put "copies" of the Quran/Koran on toilets, and even flushed one. This is causing Muslims across the globe to protest and demand an apology, and some are quoted as saying "demonstrations do no good, it's time to do something productive, like blow myself up for my religion, and embrace martyrdom".

People have died in protests. I think it's silly, of course looking at it objectively, from the outside. To have violent protests over a couple individuals "possibly" flushing paper with words on it to tick someone off. To me it's almost akin to people calling your mom names, and getting violent over it. Of course religion runs much deeper than that. Too bad they can't let this kinda thing go, and not go haywire over it. I of course don't have to be as sensitive to the situation as the US Goverment does, so I'd presume they will need to do their best to find out if this really happened, and appologize for "the actions of a few", if it's found to be true.

Crazy that this kinda thing is punishable by death in Afghan/Pakistan, and more I'm sure.
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Certain Muslims are sawing off the heads of any Westerner that they find as well. Where are the protests in Saudi Arabia?
 
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If they're so riled up over flushing copies of a freakin' book down a toilet that they want to blow themselves up, they're seriously fvcked in the head. The world would be a better place without Islam...
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it is a free country an all with freedom of speech, but i cannot believe that you can write such hateful words without the moderators or posters objecting.

as is mentioned in this thread there was a time that muslims preserved and forwarded science and there is a time in which they have not. but why do you attack 1 billion humans for the actions of a few? how many observant muslims do you know?

you do know you are attacking the 1 billion people who choose to follow and interpret islam in a way that contradicts what the terrorists do.
"the world would be a better place without Islam..."
that kind of talk was a pretext to many a genocide.
im sure nazis once said "the world would be a better place without judaism before saying a few rallies later the world would be a better place without jews.

would you say the same thing about christianity which led thousands of people to commit thousands of murders during the crusades. will you conclude that the world would be better without christianity? would you take into consideration that much of the success of western capitalistic democracies stems from the inspiration of the protestant work ethic? and the millions who find inspiration in the faith in jesus christ to do good work and who are more like mother teresa than a murdering crusader? or will you attack with your hateful words just because you can?

somewhere on the other side of the earth is osama huddled in a cave saying "the world would be a better place without christianity." you're not keeping very good company and apparently neither is osama.

you should be ashamed of yourself as you have exceeded the bounds of civilized speech.
 
Originally posted by: darren
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If they're so riled up over flushing copies of a freakin' book down a toilet that they want to blow themselves up, they're seriously fvcked in the head. The world would be a better place without Islam...
Click to expand...

it is a free country an all with freedom of speech, but i cannot believe that you can write such hateful words without the moderators or posters objecting.

as is mentioned in this thread there was a time that muslims preserved and forwarded science and there is a time in which they have not. but why do you attack 1 billion humans for the actions of a few? how many observant muslims do you know?

you do know you are attacking the 1 billion people who choose to follow and interpret islam in a way that contradicts what the terrorists do.
"the world would be a better place without Islam..."
that kind of talk was a pretext to many a genocide.
im sure nazis once said "the world would be a better place without judaism before saying a few rallies later the world would be a better place without jews.

would you say the same thing about christianity which led thousands of people to commit thousands of murders during the crusades. will you conclude that the world would be better without christianity? would you take into consideration that much of the success of western capitalistic democracies stems from the inspiration of the protestant work ethic? and the millions who find inspiration in the faith in jesus christ to do good work and who are more like mother teresa than a murdering crusader? or will you attack with your hateful words just because you can?

somewhere on the other side of the earth is osama huddled in a cave saying "the world would be a better place without christianity." you're not keeping very good company and apparently neither is osama.

you should be ashamed of yourself as you have exceeded the bounds of civilized speech.
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Flushing a book down the toilet != ramming 3 airliners into US buildings
 
As long as the US thinks its fair for terrorists to interrogate US troops by desecrating the Bible...
 
Originally posted by: Mo0o
As long as the US thinks its fair for terrorists to interrogate US troops by desecrating the Bible...
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Hell, I'm up for the whole torture and threaten to kill their families...
 
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: darren
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If they're so riled up over flushing copies of a freakin' book down a toilet that they want to blow themselves up, they're seriously fvcked in the head. The world would be a better place without Islam...
Click to expand...

it is a free country an all with freedom of speech, but i cannot believe that you can write such hateful words without the moderators or posters objecting.

as is mentioned in this thread there was a time that muslims preserved and forwarded science and there is a time in which they have not. but why do you attack 1 billion humans for the actions of a few? how many observant muslims do you know?

you do know you are attacking the 1 billion people who choose to follow and interpret islam in a way that contradicts what the terrorists do.
"the world would be a better place without Islam..."
that kind of talk was a pretext to many a genocide.
im sure nazis once said "the world would be a better place without judaism before saying a few rallies later the world would be a better place without jews.

would you say the same thing about christianity which led thousands of people to commit thousands of murders during the crusades. will you conclude that the world would be better without christianity? would you take into consideration that much of the success of western capitalistic democracies stems from the inspiration of the protestant work ethic? and the millions who find inspiration in the faith in jesus christ to do good work and who are more like mother teresa than a murdering crusader? or will you attack with your hateful words just because you can?

somewhere on the other side of the earth is osama huddled in a cave saying "the world would be a better place without christianity." you're not keeping very good company and apparently neither is osama.

you should be ashamed of yourself as you have exceeded the bounds of civilized speech.
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Flushing a book down the toilet != ramming 3 airliners into US buildings
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i agree with you, and i think political discussion, comparisons and critiques are nice, but when speaking seriously one should show a little restraint and not make hateful blanket statements.
 
Originally posted by: darren
as is mentioned in this thread there was a time that muslims preserved and forwarded science and there is a time in which they have not. but why do you attack 1 billion humans for the actions of a few? how many observant muslims do you know?
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Just thought it was kinda ironic that the "alleged" actions of a few Americans are bringing hate from a large majority of that 1 billion muslims, to the whole of America, or at least the Government. I know you're not speaking for Muslims, so you're being indirectly hypocritcal hehe, if that is possible =)
 
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: Mo0o
As long as the US thinks its fair for terrorists to interrogate US troops by desecrating the Bible...
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Hell, I'm up for the whole torture and threaten to kill their families...
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Same here........but they wouldn't be idle threats.
 
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.protests.reut/index.html

Update, now some 300 clerics in Afghanistan are threatening to call for a Holy War against the US if the US doesn't hand over the interrogators that, still just allegedly at this point, desecrated the Quran in Guantanamo. These guys are whacko.
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Holy War vs. Nuclear Weapons.

I'll never understand how they think for a MOMENT that that's tactically intelligent.

Then again, this is probably the reason none of these extremists are called "General" and they're call "clerics"
 
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.protests.reut/index.html

Update, now some 300 clerics in Afghanistan are threatening to call for a Holy War against the US if the US doesn't hand over the interrogators that, still just allegedly at this point, desecrated the Quran in Guantanamo. These guys are whacko.
Click to expand...

Holy War vs. Nuclear Weapons.

I'll never understand how they think for a MOMENT that that's tactically intelligent.

Then again, this is probably the reason none of these extremists are called "General" and they're call "clerics"
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Well if it turned into a Holy War the world would be over.

That is of course if every single Muslim on the planet goes out and starts killing people.

 
and the reason this is not being discussed is because this is Afghanistan. Not the Muslim world.

All of Afghanistan is probably less than 1% of the Muslim population.

Who cares what the village idiots have to say.
 
This was my post in the P&N thread.





Hello this is my first post in P&N, i think, i'm more an OT guy, but here goes, be gentle.

First off, I am from Afghanistan, have lived in the US for 15 years, and am a Muslim, converted 5 weeks ago.

Second, Islam is not a monolithic religion so don't pile everyone into on big category as the "MOZLEMS." In Islam there are people with different points of view and different level of understanding. For instance, in Afghanistan kids will learn to memorize the Koran by age 11 but only know how to say it and none of the meaning. You cannot compare the insurgent in Iraqi, where ever they come from, to the protesters in Afghanistan. Nor can you compare the druglords in afghanistan to the protesters. The protestors were college students, which in Afghanistan is probably people in there mid-30's. The drug lords are the same war lords that carried out the mass killings during the civil war. You can clearly see the level of molarity among those individuals. I'm not going to pretend that the protesters are squeaky clean but to put them on the same level as the terrorists in Iraq and the warlords in Afghanistan is a mistake. The arguement that is being made is along the lines of well "They have no right to protest because the sell drugs and/or follow the same religon as terrorists." Bad logic, sorry.

Third, respect. You may be a Christian, Jewish (I don't like the word Jew, it almost sound derogatory), or an atheist (should this be capitalized?), but you have a right to your belief. Part of acknowledging that right is by respecting it. The matter of a flag vs a holy book is on two different levels. One is a symbol of power, pride and self-identity, while the other is, from a Muslim's point of view, the literal spoken word of God preserved since it's revelation. I've never heard of a bible burning, any muslim with a basic amount of knowledge and decency would not stoop so low. I'm not sure if an atheist holds anything sacred, but this should not allow him/her denounce everything as crap and treat it as such. Even a person who does not believe in an after-life or a supreme power should at least get along with the people s/he is around. Ideally, an atheist should strive more peace and understand since his/her existence is limited to this world in their point of veiw. That's just a logical arguement. Oh btw, I was atheistic for 2.5 yrs.

Fourth, the Islamic God, Allah, is the same as YHWH, Jehovah. Allah is not a name, it is a word that means God and has no gender specific attachment. Allah is the same that spoke to Abraham, caused the virgin birth of Jesus, and parted the sea for Moses. Clarification.

Lastly, I have a hard time believing this happend. What could an interogator get out of a person by insulting that persons way of life, eternal hope and faith? That kind of action would only serve to alienate the person even more. If it did happen I'm surprised that there was somebody in our armed forces that actually believe that by doing this it would get him/her somewhere.

Sorry... DANGIT!... I should be writing my paper for Western Civ. *sigh (due tomorrow, stab self in the eye!)
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
and the reason this is not being discussed is because this is Afghanistan. Not the Muslim world.

All of Afghanistan is probably less than 1% of the Muslim population.

Who cares what the village idiots have to say.
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I'm sorry but what is that makes you so much better????
 
Originally posted by: 5ayle
Originally posted by: Aimster
and the reason this is not being discussed is because this is Afghanistan. Not the Muslim world.

All of Afghanistan is probably less than 1% of the Muslim population.

Who cares what the village idiots have to say.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but what is that makes you so much better????
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Defending village idiots?
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.protests.reut/index.html

Update, now some 300 clerics in Afghanistan are threatening to call for a Holy War against the US if the US doesn't hand over the interrogators that, still just allegedly at this point, desecrated the Quran in Guantanamo. These guys are whacko.
Click to expand...

Holy War vs. Nuclear Weapons.

I'll never understand how they think for a MOMENT that that's tactically intelligent.

Then again, this is probably the reason none of these extremists are called "General" and they're call "clerics"
Click to expand...

Well if it turned into a Holy War the world would be over.

That is of course if every single Muslim on the planet goes out and starts killing people.
Click to expand...

How would the world be over?
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: 5ayle
Originally posted by: Aimster
and the reason this is not being discussed is because this is Afghanistan. Not the Muslim world.

All of Afghanistan is probably less than 1% of the Muslim population.

Who cares what the village idiots have to say.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but what is that makes you so much better????
Click to expand...

Defending village idiots?
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I'm not sure what you mean by that... but this arrongance seems more idiotic. If you would have said ignorant than I would agree.
 
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