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Is there Free Will?

NikolaeVarius

NikolaeVarius

Lifer
My friends and I got into a big argument over whether there was free will or not.

Free Will being the ability to do something by your own thoughts, and not having something else have a control over your decision.


Of course, one of my friends, being a religion fanatic, said there wasn't because God makes everything happen. ( Not sure why he's my friend actually)

Personally, I believe that there is free will to a certain extent, at that extent, it would be the entire "infinite universe theory" Where every choice you make, has an infinite amount of universes where every choice happens.

In which, means there is really is no free will because everything is happening, and you just happen to be in that particular universe.

(There are the times in which I hate physics for making everything so complicated)

What do you guys think?


 
Is this properly Highly Technical? Shouldn't be in Off-Topic?

Either way, it's a pointless discussion. In logic, there are only two ways things happen: randomly, or through causality. Neither leaves room for an intuitive definition of free will in decision making.
 
Yes of course there is free will.

But you have to fight to discover true free will within yourself, and learn to exercise it, and have some good foundation of high principles (belief system) to guide your exercising of your will, and you have to accept responsibility for the results brought by exercising your free will (karma).

Those who don't find their own free will just drift along through life behaving out of habit, peer influences and other social conditioning. The man of free will, dynamic volition, eventually becomes a truly mature, free human being, and I think is somewhat rare.

I seek for myself to continually improve and to grow into this.

Without free will we'd just be slaves, not responsible for our actions.

Psalm 82:6 (King James Version)
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
 
Some people take a hard deterministic approach and claim the human mind is just one complex state machine, and we are each hardwired to react a certain way to a given set of circumstances.
 
tell your friend he isn't very religious if he thinks there is no free will. how can he choose to accept God? no one gets judged if they can't choose. lol, what would they be judged about?
 
If you're friend was a religion fanatic, he would have to know a little about the Bible - which clearly states that God gave man free will.
 
While if the friend is christian, I would agree with most posts about him being lost in translation. But before you guys attack you should realized that there are thousands of religions out there, many of which do not believe in the bible (and some that don't really believe in a god as such).

So just for the record, a religious fanatic does not have to be Christian. 😛
 
Just want to point out that if the religious friend is a Presbyterian or any sort of Calvinist, then his religious dogma says that there is not free will.

Everything is known by God who is all powerful, therefore everything is willed by God. God chooses his "elect" to be saved. Man cannot choose God for himself because of his sinful nature. Its called predestination.

For what seems to be a fairly extreme doctrine it has a lot of followers in the US at least.
 
I'm gonna go with Raymond Smullyan on this one. Free will is a pointless discussion in terms of absolutes, because it requires arbitrary borders between you and the rest of the universe to have any real meaning.
 
If Mittens chose to save baby penguin based on his beliefs, and Mitten's beliefs are not in his direct control, does Mittens really have free will?
 
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Of course, one of my friends, being a religion fanatic, said there wasn't because God makes everything happen. ( Not sure why he's my friend actually)
Click to expand...
Your friend is right, even if by accident for a stupid reason. There is no 'free will' and that's scientific fact. Debating the possibility of altering your own state of mind outside the realm of physical causality, you might as well be debating whether the earth is round.

Originally posted by: Nathelion
In logic, there are only two ways things happen: randomly, or through causality. Neither leaves room for an intuitive definition of free will in decision making.
Click to expand...
This is your answer right here, no need to look elsewhere.

Originally posted by: scott
But you have to fight to discover true free will within yourself, and learn to exercise it, and have some good foundation of high principles (belief system) to guide your exercising of your will, and you have to accept responsibility for the results brought by exercising your free will (karma).
Click to expand...
Wake the ****** up, this isn't sunday school, no room for your religious bullshit, hence "highly technical".

If you want to 'continually improve', start approach questions rationally instead of asking your imaginary friend.
 
Woah. Thats weird, they all say it was quoted from me, even if the last 2 were said by someone else...Its either that or there's something in my drink

I made the argument tat there is no free will because everything is just governed by chance and chemicals. But, they also made the argument that talking about Free will iteself was an example of free will because we chose to talk about it.
 
Does free will depend on perspective? For example, I have never gone to a Japanese restaurant without ordering sushi. From my perspective there is still a choice involve d(should I order sushi or shouldn't I), however from the perspective of one of my friends there is no choice involved. One could say that I will order sushi and they would almost certainly be correct. My "free will" choice of ordering sushi is about as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.

The argument I just gave is unoriginal however I forgot where I read it from, so I adapted it to be true to my life.
 
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Of course, one of my friends, being a religion fanatic, said there wasn't because God makes everything happen. ( Not sure why he's my friend actually)
Click to expand...
Your friend is right, even if by accident for a stupid reason. There is no 'free will' and that's scientific fact. Debating the possibility of altering your own state of mind outside the realm of physical causality, you might as well be debating whether the earth is round.
Click to expand...
I guess most of the neuroscientists here are wasting their time! Every part of the brain is deterministic and governed by causality, governed by equations that have been known for decades. How sad that people have spent so much time studying it only to have you point out the obviousness of the truth in one fell swoop of your keyboard. Philosophers, cognitive scientists, and neuroscientists alike all owe you a huge debt of gratitude for your genius. Unfortunately, I doubt they'll thank you, since they are now all out of work.
Wake the ****** up, this isn't sunday school, no room for your religious bullshit, hence "highly technical".

If you want to 'continually improve', start approach questions rationally instead of asking your imaginary friend.
Click to expand...
Looks like some genius decided to mount his high horse today. I pity you if this is how you really look at things.
 
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does free will depend on perspective? For example, I have never gone to a Japanese restaurant without ordering sushi. From my perspective there is still a choice involve d(should I order sushi or shouldn't I), however from the perspective of one of my friends there is no choice involved. One could say that I will order sushi and they would almost certainly be correct. My "free will" choice of ordering sushi is about as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.

The argument I just gave is unoriginal however I forgot where I read it from, so I adapted it to be true to my life.
Click to expand...

The thing to remember is that free will is in the eye of the willer, not in the eyes of god above. It's always a question of boundaries.
 
Normally, I'd say "keep religion out of science" but I'd like to point out that according to religious people I've spoken with, and religious documentation, god GAVE us free will.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Of course, one of my friends, being a religion fanatic, said there wasn't because God makes everything happen. ( Not sure why he's my friend actually)
Click to expand...
Your friend is right, even if by accident for a stupid reason. There is no 'free will' and that's scientific fact. Debating the possibility of altering your own state of mind outside the realm of physical causality, you might as well be debating whether the earth is round.
Click to expand...
I guess most of the neuroscientists here are wasting their time! Every part of the brain is deterministic and governed by causality, governed by equations that have been known for decades. How sad that people have spent so much time studying it only to have you point out the obviousness of the truth in one fell swoop of your keyboard. Philosophers, cognitive scientists, and neuroscientists alike all owe you a huge debt of gratitude for your genius. Unfortunately, I doubt they'll thank you, since they are now all out of work.
Click to expand...
The neuroscientists are doing a damn good job as far as I can tell. They are familiar with the obvious delusion that is free will. You obviously are not, which is unfortunate but then again you're not a neuroscientist. It doesn't take understanding of nature to flip burgers.

 
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
The neuroscientists are doing a damn good job as far as I can tell. They are familiar with the obvious delusion that is free will. You obviously are not, which is unfortunate but then again you're not a neuroscientist. It doesn't take understanding of nature to flip burgers.
Click to expand...
Right. I moonlight teaching a neurophysiology lab while getting a PhD in engineering, but my real job is mopping the floor at McDonald's. :cookie:

Guess which one is the engineering dork in the picture - it's probably me.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
but my real job is mopping the floor at McDonald's. :cookie:
Click to expand...
I'm almost shocked. Just hope they don't make it a job requirement to understand fundamental aspects of nature.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
The neuroscientists are doing a damn good job as far as I can tell. They are familiar with the obvious delusion that is free will. You obviously are not, which is unfortunate but then again you're not a neuroscientist. It doesn't take understanding of nature to flip burgers.
Click to expand...
Right. I moonlight teaching a neurophysiology lab while getting a PhD in engineering, but my real job is mopping the floor at McDonald's. :cookie:

Guess which one is the engineering dork in the picture - it's probably me.
Click to expand...

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