Is there any point in admitting guilt when a cops asks you?

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: bradruth

I'd be inclined to lower it to the 1-15mph violation bracket.

wouldnt that be illegal? like an officer kinda lying? I know officers do this, but I just dont understand it, it seems it would make sense to either do a warning or write a ticket for the actual speed.

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: leftyman
helps if you have a nice rack too

or if you are a woman and cry when the officer pulls you over.

dangit, it really pisses me off how easily women get off. theres no gender equality it seems in the traffic stop system.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: KrillBee

Originally posted by: bradruth

I'd be inclined to lower it to the 1-15mph violation bracket.

wouldnt that be illegal? like an officer kinda lying? I know officers do this, but I just dont understand it, it seems it would make sense to either do a warning or write a ticket for the actual speed.

Wow, are you serious?

 

[malbojah]

Last time I got pulled over for speeding the first words were, " Can I take a guess??" I was within 5 mph of what he clocked me at (me being 5 over) and he dropped the ticket down to 70 in a 55 (instead of 80)

 

[AlienCraft]

Traffic Tickets = yes
Anything elase = no

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose
I'm always totally upfront with officers, and they really DO appreciate that. Pretending you don't know what you did wrong or pretending you didn't do anything wrong is just unnecessarily irritating to the apprehending officer.

for my last ticket i admitted i was going over the speed limit, when he asked why he was pulling me over, and I also said i was going about 80, when he asked how fast.

the part where i ****ed up was when he asked if i knew what the speed limit was, and i said "65?" when i knew it was 55. and im sure he knew that i knew it was 55, because i told him ive made many trips on this road.

and i told him i felt safe driving the speed i was, but i didnt suck up and say i was sorry.

Thats probably why he didnt give me any wiggle room at all But the whole time I was nice and cooperate. which i thought should have at least been worth something.

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: KrillBee

Originally posted by: bradruth
I give a lot more breaks to people who are honest than those who lie.

If someone was going 78 in a 55 would you give them a break if they were honest?

The thing is, with radar, he already knows that you are going 78 in a 55, and doesn't need admission of guilt.

That being said, I personally usually dont ask the question. I go up, get their info, and come back in 5 minutes with a ticket or a warning.

so then if you dont ask them the question, what do you use to decide whether or not they deserve a ticket or a warning?

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: KrillBee

Originally posted by: bradruth

I'd be inclined to lower it to the 1-15mph violation bracket.

wouldnt that be illegal? like an officer kinda lying? I know officers do this, but I just dont understand it, it seems it would make sense to either do a warning or write a ticket for the actual speed.

Wow, are you serious?

yeah, like i guess i dont see how charging someone for going less than they were, as considered being honest. i dunno, thats just my take on it.

 

[azoomee]

They know you're speeding -- thats why they pulled u over. I'd admit guilt, applogize and hope for the best

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: bradruth
I fail to see how we can arbitrarily hand out DUIs if people pass the tests and blow under the limit.

In my state a cop can determine you weren't fit to be operating the vehicle even if you are under the legal limit. If you blow a .003 and the cop thinks you can't handle it, you're in DUI Smackdown.

Yeah, that *can* happen, but it likely won't go anywhere in court and, as such, is more hassle than it's worth.

It's a common tactic (and you know it) to get another charge to stick. The DUI gets reduced down to something that is more fitting like Reckless Driving or Unsafe Operation. The goal is to make every stop a productive one. Productive meaning a ticket which will yield a fine and thus raise the stop / conviction ratio for the brass to use when it comes to shaking more money out of the Communities coffers.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: KrillBee

Originally posted by: bradruth

I'd be inclined to lower it to the 1-15mph violation bracket.

wouldnt that be illegal? like an officer kinda lying? I know officers do this, but I just dont understand it, it seems it would make sense to either do a warning or write a ticket for the actual speed.

Wow, are you serious?

yeah, like i guess i dont see how charging someone for going less than they were, as considered being honest. i dunno, thats just my take on it.
[/quote]

But it's fine to charge them with nothing? Nothing is less than what they were doing...maybe we should just apply the law 100% all the time.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
It's a common tactic (and you know it) to get another charge to stick. The DUI gets reduced down to something that is more fitting like Reckless Driving or Unsafe Operation. The goal is to make every stop a productive one. Productive meaning a ticket which will yield a fine and thus raise the stop / conviction ratio for the brass to use when it comes to shaking more money out of the Communities coffers.

But if the PC isn't up to snuff to make the initial arrest it's unlikely that the prosecutors will pursue any charges. All it does is make us look bad.

And you're still overestimating how much influence "the brass" has on discretion.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
It's a common tactic (and you know it) to get another charge to stick. The DUI gets reduced down to something that is more fitting like Reckless Driving or Unsafe Operation. The goal is to make every stop a productive one. Productive meaning a ticket which will yield a fine and thus raise the stop / conviction ratio for the brass to use when it comes to shaking more money out of the Communities coffers.

But if the PC isn't up to snuff to make the initial arrest it's unlikely that the prosecutors will pursue any charges. All it does is make us look bad.

And you're still overestimating how much influence "the brass" has on discretion.

Again, you missed the point I'm making. Furthermore, after attending more than one CHP briefing with the stepDad, listening to him talk about changes in policy and I would disagree with you.
Brass is always on the look out for positive numbers. It is "proof" they are on the job. The CHP "click it or Ticket" campaign was one such example. Stopping people for not having seat belts fastened takes time and takes an officer off the beat for at least 5 minutes each time. This was a "high priority" for CHP officers statewide. results were mixed, but it had a negative effect on officer moral, as it forced them to concentrate on seat belt stops at the expense of more serious moving violations like speeding and DUI's.
An officer that is under orders to make a certain number of seat belt stops is one that overlooks other violations , despite the fact that he WANTS to stop the more serious violations. Having a Captain up your butt for not making the numbers is bound to have an adverse effect on performance regardless of which column is being filled.

 

[apinomus]

I always try to be upfront and honest when talking to a cop that's pulled me over. They often appreciate having my license and insurance ready to go when they get to the car.

I was riding with my mom a few weeks ago, though, and she was going 51 in a 40 in a place that's really easy to speed in... she hasn't had a ticket or accident in 10 years, but he was "nice" and reduced it 1mph to not go as rekless driving and go against her insurance. Pretty low.
The SAME COP gave my brother a ticket maybe 1 week later, I think for going more than 11 over, but still. I guess my family speeds too much :shrug:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bradruth
How low are we talking? Our interstates are 75mph, highways are 65mph, major city streets are 40mph, slightly lesser ones are 30-35mph, and residentials are mostly 20-25mph.

Rural interstates are 65, suburban 55, urban 50, highways 55, major arterials 35, secondary 30, residential 25, downtown commercial 20, school zones are 20 (and that's 24/7/365).
I have no issue with slower limits (I absolutely NEVER speed in a residential area), but our interstate and highway limits are the lowest west of the Mississippi. Multiple efforts have been made to get them raised, as all our neighboring states have done, but it is always blocked. Technically, they are raised to 70 and 60 at this time, as state legislature actually did raise them a couple years ago, but ODOT has refused to change the signs, and police agencies and courts still enforce the lower limits. I am serious.
Drivers here are terrible. Literally the only traffic laws enforced are speeding and DUI. Turn signal use is rare (although I use mine religiously) and failure to use them is never enforced. Red light running is common and rarely enforced (except at the rare intersections with cameras). Driving on the shoulder or in the median is an common everyday event for prick drivers in rush hour traffic. Passive aggressive driving is the norm and slow traffic blocking the left lane is everywhere (despite laws and signs everywhere ordering slower drivers to yield right).
Welcome to Oregon. Watch out for the roadside tax collection. Cops do not issue warnings. Our speed traps are infamous. Neil Peart even wrote and complained about them in his book "Ghost Rider" when he explained why he went out of his way to avoid Oregon on his 55,000 mile motorcycle journey.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Again, you missed the point I'm making. Furthermore, after attending more than one CHP briefing with the stepDad, listening to him talk about changes in policy and I would disagree with you.
Brass is always on the look out for positive numbers. It is "proof" they are on the job. The CHP "click it or Ticket" campaign was one such example. Stopping people for not having seat belts fastened takes time and takes an officer off the beat for at least 5 minutes each time. This was a "high priority" for CHP officers statewide. results were mixed, but it had a negative effect on officer moral, as it forced them to concentrate on seat belt stops at the expense of more serious moving violations like speeding and DUI's.
An officer that is under orders to make a certain number of seat belt stops is one that overlooks other violations , despite the fact that he WANTS to stop the more serious violations. Having a Captain up your butt for not making the numbers is bound to have an adverse effect on performance regardless of which column is being filled.

Highway patrol is a MUCH different beast than municipal police. All they do is run traffic and do accident investigations. I speak from a city police perspective.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Vic
Rural interstates are 65, suburban 55, urban 50, highways 55, major arterials 35, secondary 30, residential 25, downtown commercial 20, school zones are 20 (and that's 24/7/365).
I have no issue with slower limits (I absolutely NEVER speed in a residential area), but our interstate and highway limits are the lowest west of the Mississippi. Multiple efforts have been made to get them raised, as all our neighboring states have done, but it is always blocked. Technically, they are raised to 70 and 60 at this time, as state legislature actually did raise them a couple years ago, but ODOT has refused to change the signs, and police agencies and courts still enforce the lower limits. I am serious.
Drivers here are terrible. Literally the only traffic laws enforced are speeding and DUI. Turn signal use is rare (although I use mine religiously) and failure to use them is never enforced. Red light running is common and rarely enforced (except at the rare intersections with cameras). Driving on the shoulder or in the median is an common everyday event for prick drivers in rush hour traffic. Passive aggressive driving is the norm and slow traffic blocking the left lane is everywhere (despite laws and signs everywhere ordering slower drivers to yield right).
Welcome to Oregon. Watch out for the roadside tax collection. Cops do not issue warnings. Our speed traps are infamous. Neil Peart even wrote and complained about them in his book "Ghost Rider" when he explained why he went out of his way to avoid Oregon on his 55,000 mile motorcycle journey.

It sounds like there are political issues beyond common policing there.

 

[95SS]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: bradruth
How low are we talking? Our interstates are 75mph, highways are 65mph, major city streets are 40mph, slightly lesser ones are 30-35mph, and residentials are mostly 20-25mph.

Rural interstates are 65, suburban 55, urban 50, highways 55, major arterials 35, secondary 30, residential 25, downtown commercial 20, school zones are 20 (and that's 24/7/365).
I have no issue with slower limits (I absolutely NEVER speed in a residential area), but our interstate and highway limits are the lowest west of the Mississippi. Multiple efforts have been made to get them raised, as all our neighboring states have done, but it is always blocked. Technically, they are raised to 70 and 60 at this time, as state legislature actually did raise them a couple years ago, but ODOT has refused to change the signs, and police agencies and courts still enforce the lower limits. I am serious.
Drivers here are terrible. Literally the only traffic laws enforced are speeding and DUI. Turn signal use is rare (although I use mine religiously) and failure to use them is never enforced. Red light running is common and rarely enforced (except at the rare intersections with cameras). Driving on the shoulder or in the median is an common everyday event for prick drivers in rush hour traffic. Passive aggressive driving is the norm and slow traffic blocking the left lane is everywhere (despite laws and signs everywhere ordering slower drivers to yield right).
Welcome to Oregon. Watch out for the roadside tax collection. Cops do not issue warnings. Our speed traps are infamous. Neil Peart even wrote and complained about them in his book "Ghost Rider" when he explained why he went out of his way to avoid Oregon on his 55,000 mile motorcycle journey.

I second everything Vic said. Oregon drivers are terrible. During my daily commute, I am literally amazed at the stupidity I encounter on a daily basis.

BTW Vic, some areas have raised the limits. I-5 through Salem is up to 60 now. And whatever happened with the repeal on the scool zone law?

 

[Zenmervolt]

From talking with a lawyer friend, he insists that the best answer is always "I'm doing my best to follow the rules of the road." Supposedly it has always worked for him, and from trying to keep up with him on some Porsche club drives, I would venture to guess that he has had plenty of opportunity to test his recommendation.

ZV

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Vic
Hell no, never. All you do when you admit guilt is make the cop's job easier by incriminating yourself. And keep in mind that a cop's idea of "lying" is whenever you say something different than whatever bit of self-incrimination they want you to say.

Think on this. Suppose you stopped and had one single small beer while driving home from work. You get pulled over (say for burnt-out taillight). The cop asks if you've been drinking, because they ask almost everyone they pull over at night that. You tell the truth and admit you had a single beer. Boom, you walking the line and blowing, and even if you pass the field test and blow under he and he alone gets to decide whether you get a DUI or not. You tell him no, and he has nothing to go on.

Traffic cops write tickets. That is their job. "Breaks" and warnings are much rarer than they would like you to believe, and for this very reason. To get you to believe that self-incrimination will get you off. Sorry, that can and will be used against you in court. The best way to handle the situation is to pretend he didn't ask the question. "Do you know fast you were going?" "Here's my license, registration, and proof of insurance, officer, please don't take long running it, thanks."

I consider lying to be telling me something other than the truth.

We'd still smell it on the person's breath, so they'd likely end up running a few tests regardless. I fail to see how we can arbitrarily hand out DUIs if people pass the tests and blow under the limit.

That's fine if that's how you want to handle it, but it will only result in a citation.

When cops quit lying, I'll quit lying!!!

 

[mdcrab]

The last time I got pulled over for speeding at 1:30 AM on a week night I was caught on radar at 67 in 50 mph zone. I answrered all of the officier's questions truthfully. He would have given me a warning but the computer was down. He could not check my record, so he gave me a ticket. When I appeared in court, the officier was a no show and the charges were dropped.

mdcrab

 

[Xyclone]

I'm impressed by the responses of this thread. Actually, the truth is a pretty good idea.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Xyclone
I'm impressed by the responses of this thread. Actually, the truth is a pretty good idea.

It is an excellent idea, but only if it applies to both sides. Don't let your integrity be their weapon.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: bradruth
Highway patrol is a MUCH different beast than municipal police. All they do is run traffic and do accident investigations. I speak from a city police perspective.

If by "all they do is run traffic..." you mean Stolen Car investigations / seizures, Chop Shop Stings, Commercial Truck Inspections and Equipment Enforcement, CDL driver reg enforcement, Drug Trafficking Investigation / Enforcement, Assisting US Border Patrol, County Sheriffs Patrols, City Police patrols, provid eback up for crowd control and civil unrest, all the while patrolling ALL California Roads, streets and Freeways AND writing the multitude of traffic violations and infractions as well as the inevitable accident investigations, then yeah, thats ALL they do.
The Civic and Political pressures the brass faces are the same though.
I used them as an example because I have intimate knowledge of that aspect of LE. My knowledge of Small Town PD mirrors it as well, although the political pressure was different, there were similarities and the differences were simnply the scale to which these effects occured.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Xyclone
I'm impressed by the responses of this thread. Actually, the truth is a pretty good idea.

It is an excellent idea, but only if it applies to both sides. Don't let your integrity be their weapon.

Exactly. Don't be "low Hanging Fruit". That answer of "I'm doing the best I can to follow the Rules of The Road." Is Excellent. It neither admits fault nor claims innocence. It doesn't belittle or confront the officer and allows him an opportunity to let you off with a scolding instead of make an example of you and collect your fine money for the State.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: cyclistca
Man there certainly some parinod people on this board judging from some of the answers.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but a lot of that PARANOIA has been backed up by real-world experiences.

It's been said (by those with more experience than I) "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you."