Is there an alternative to college?

[mwmorph]

Thanks for the advice guys,

Just to clarify, I am "in" a top engineering college right now, but the only problem is, I don't want to be here, I'm only here because people EXPECT me to be here, and what's more, my GPA is abysmal and I'm on provisional academic drop status.

Yes, I'm Asian and I'm fairly sure my parents would rather me commit seppuku than "join the army and die anyway.

I think I just may have to swallow the fact that my family is going to look down on me for the rest of my life because both my parents are college educated and my aunt is a successful businesswoman so they expect a level of success from me.

The military is one of those things I've loved since I was about 3 years old and wanted to be a part of (especially Infantry). As far as trade goes, I do have quite a few ASEs and I have worked as a automotive technician before so I think I'm set there, but the real problem is how my family will react and whether I really will be bringing in decent money.

I don't want a lot, but I've always wanted to live the American dream and I do have to think of the future since I am/was planning on getting engaged, at least until I learned yesterday I may be forced to become a college dropout.

What trades are there? Opportunities for advancement? Pay? Job stability

 

[everman]

I'm just wondering why college is just "not for you?" Maybe it's not college per se, but you're just not in a major you're interested in. However it sounds like you enjoy mechanical engineering, and would enjoy it if you were doing well, so perhaps you should just seek some help and bring up the grades? You will have more opportunities available in that line of work with the degree because many companies require it. Or perhaps you should look at another major before deciding to drop out completely. Even if you do join the armed forces, you should take advantage of the financial aid they can provide towards a college degree. So either way I think you should get the education. Ultimately I don't think your decision should be based on what your family may think; but on what you determine to be the best for yourself (after giving it a lot of good rational thought).

 

[BarneyFife]

Can't you get a business degree or something? Those are pretty easy.

 

[Saint Nick]

Alternatives?

The military, minimum wage, or welfare.

Take your pick!

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

i know this probably wont help much and sounds farfetched (sp?) but I suppose you could always make a living in the stock market/being an entrepeuner

 

[redgtxdi]

Get practical.



If there's seriously something that you *think* interests you.......then get your foot in the door somewhere & start working....ASAP!!!!!!!

On the job training will go a long way toward helping you advance your career....PROVIDED that you are doing a job that you're truly interested in!!!!!

 

[Capt Caveman]

:music:In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the navy
Come on, protect the motherland
In the navy
Come on and join your fellow man
In the navy
Come on people, and make a stand
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)


They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit:music:

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: everman
I'm just wondering why college is just "not for you?" Maybe it's not college per se, but you're just not in a major you're interested in. However it sounds like you enjoy mechanical engineering, and would enjoy it if you were doing well, so perhaps you should just seek some help and bring up the grades? You will have more opportunities available in that line of work with the degree because many companies require it. Or perhaps you should look at another major before deciding to drop out completely. Even if you do join the armed forces, you should take advantage of the financial aid they can provide towards a college degree. So either way I think you should get the education. Ultimately I don't think your decision should be based on what your family may think; but on what you determine to be the best for yourself (after giving it a lot of good rational thought).

Well to be honest, I've never been interested in academics, I did alright in high school and got into a good college but thats mainly because of the ease of the curriculum and my SAT score.

I'm not stupid, just not interested in what is considered traditional education like calculus and chemistry. I find it extremely boring and repetitive.

If it makes sense, I'm much more interested in the why and the how. I work on intuition rather than reasoning.

For example, in engineering exercises, I can build a bridge that will be among the strongest in the class, or design a car in a strength contest that will absolutely dominate but I can't sit down and do the calculus or whatever behind it, explain how the members interact to support the weight, I just sort of do a quick draft and start building. I need something that's hands on and keeps me physically engaged.

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Can't you get a business degree or something? Those are pretty easy.

Not at UIUC, the business school is pretty renowned too.

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Get practical.



If there's seriously something that you *think* interests you.......then get your foot in the door somewhere & start working....ASAP!!!!!!!

On the job training will go a long way toward helping you advance your career....PROVIDED that you are doing a job that you're truly interested in!!!!!

That's what I'm thinking, if I do get dropped from school, I'm probably going to go into the Army and make a career of that.

I just want to know if there are alternatives that provide stability, a decent salary and benefits and don't require a traditional education.

The thing about the army is it's very hard to settle down in 1 place and build a family, which has always been my dream, you know that American other dream (besides the Army), my fiancée to be and I, a house, white picket fence, 2 cars, 2 kids, a nice suburban lifestyle.

 

[MyThirdEye]

Get your Real Estate license?

 

[JulesMaximus]

There's always McDonalds...I hear their manager training program is very comprehensive, and when you retire you can go work at Walmart greeting customers until you die. :laugh:

 

[effee]

Get a degree in economics, that will almost guarantee you a job after you grad, if i recall, its one of the most 'in demand degrees'

I'm in a similiar situation, my family wants me to major in the finance and banking sector, i.e stockbroker, investment banker.

however, what i really want to do is attend flying school and attempt to be a pilot.

although the first option is something more stable and might bring in insane amounts of money, its not something i can see myself doing for the next 20 years of my life.

so, the question is, whether to listen to your family since they are paying for your education after all, or to do what you really want.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: effee
Get a degree in economics, that will almost guarantee you a job after you grad, if i recall, its one of the most 'in demand degrees'

I'm in a similiar situation, my family wants me to major in the finance and banking sector, i.e stockbroker, investment banker.

however, what i really want to do is attend flying school and attempt to be a pilot.

although the first option is something more stable and might bring in insane amounts of money, its not something i can see myself doing for the next 20 years of my life.

so, the question is, whether to listen to your family since they are paying for your education after all, or to do what you really want.

An economics undergrad degree does not guarantee a job, in fact, lots of econ grads are having a tough time find a job in the field. Most econ related jobs will require an advanced econ degree from the grad school.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yup. Econ job is not easy to get and usually requires a masters.

 

[effee]

It is more about being in the right place at the right time..not so much the bachelor's degree

 

[chusteczka]

Dude, you are at UIUC! You could totally dominate in any major at any other university. Do not give up because you are having difficulty in a top engineering curriculum.

A couple years ago, I was exactly where you are at now. My first semester of academic probation, I stressed. My second semester of academic probation, I took off the next semester to reread my books. My third semester of academic probation, I applied for accounting/CS at Northern Illinois University and the CS/engineering curriculum at University of Illinois in Chicago (UIC). This led to a semester studying CS at UIC. At the Chicago campus, I received straight A's and convinced my academic advisor at UIUC to let me back in. My last semester at UIUC, I was able to pull high enough grades to get my major GPA back above 2.0 and graduate. Now, after three years in industry, I have a solid position with a solid salary and an excellent reputation in an IT position with an insurance company. Moral of the story, do not give up.

The part that hurt so bad was the top straight 'A' students at UIC were at my level of ability, that of a 'C' student at UIUC. Interestingly those students with straight A's at UIC were more confident than I was, due to my having so much difficulty at UIUC, but their abilities were not any better than mine. They also had better offers after graduation than I did due to their better GPA's.

Transfer to a different curriculum or a different college if you need to but make sure you follow what interests you. Do not dropout of college altogether and do not join the military!

Other options are accounting, finance, and economics.

You can join the military after you graduate if you like but you will have a degree when you do so and go in as an officer.

Change your study habits. Study in the library each night.

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: effee
Get a degree in economics, that will almost guarantee you a job after you grad, if i recall, its one of the most 'in demand degrees'

I'm in a similiar situation, my family wants me to major in the finance and banking sector, i.e stockbroker, investment banker.

however, what i really want to do is attend flying school and attempt to be a pilot.

although the first option is something more stable and might bring in insane amounts of money, its not something i can see myself doing for the next 20 years of my life.

so, the question is, whether to listen to your family since they are paying for your education after all, or to do what you really want.

An economics undergrad degree does not guarantee a job, in fact, lots of econ grads are having a tough time find a job in the field. Most econ related jobs will require an advanced econ degree from the grad school.

I think you responded to your own post. Most people with Econ undergrad degrees don't work in the Econ field.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Originally posted by: effee
How can you possibly, not have a job if you have a degree?

Easy, get a degree in psychology and you'll be jobless, or work at Famous Footwear.

People need to get demanding degrees to do something with their degree.

Yeah, a college degree doesn't mean anything if it's not something useful. Go ahead, get your college degree in English; now bring me a cup of coffee.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: chusteczka
Dude, you are at UIUC! You could totally dominate in any major at any other university. Do not give up because you are having difficulty in a top engineering curriculum.

A couple years ago, I was exactly where you are at now. My first semester of academic probation, I stressed. My second semester of academic probation, I took off the next semester to reread my books. My third semester of academic probation, I applied for accounting/CS at Northern Illinois University and the CS/engineering curriculum at University of Illinois in Chicago (UIC). This led to a semester studying CS at UIC. At the Chicago campus, I received straight A's and convinced my academic advisor at UIUC to let me back in. My last semester at UIUC, I was able to pull high enough grades to get my major GPA back above 2.0 and graduate. Now, after three years in industry, I have a solid position with a solid salary and an excellent reputation in an IT position with an insurance company. Moral of the story, do not give up.

The part that hurt so bad was the top straight 'A' students at UIC were at my level of ability, that of a 'C' student at UIUC. Interestingly those students with straight A's at UIC were more confident than I was, due to my having so much difficulty at UIUC, but their abilities were not any better than mine. They also had better offers after graduation than I did due to their better GPA's.

Transfer to a different curriculum or a different college if you need to but make sure you follow what interests you. Do not dropout of college altogether and do not join the military!

Other options are accounting, finance, and economics.

You can join the military after you graduate if you like but you will have a degree when you do so and go in as an officer.

Change your study habits. Study in the library each night.

I thought military actually sounds like a really good idea. I almost regret not doing it myself, but I was fortunate enough to have a full ride to school (so they didn't have to pay off any loans or whatnot)

But yeah, military and then college seems pretty doable. You get a salary after you leave and while you go to college, which is awesome. And they pay for your schooling. What's not to like? The only downside is you have to spend several years in the military...

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: effee
How can you possibly, not have a job if you have a degree?

Degrees are a dime a dozen.

I have a few friends who have degrees, 1 in horticulture, 2 with degrees in political science, who don't have very high level jobs. It's just not that easy sometimes =p

What more did they expect when they chose to get a degree in a career path worth less than toilet paper?

 

[Casawi]

It is hard to be in college if you weren't hungry to learn. I don't know, my alternative to college was to be a beach bum, I could just surfing all day and live day to day and never carry a license. I did a quick math and figured out it wasn't going to work, because I had no talent or muscle to get me anywhere. All I had was a brain and can be best used in a classroom to learn things.

 

[Cienja]

I attended school for a year here and a year there...wasn't my thing either. My only option (due to old injuries, which the military didn't like) was to work as hard as I could and hope to be middle class by the age of 30. It worked.

My family didn't look down on me, but some of my friends did...they aren't my friends anymore

 

[ponyo]

Military is one option. Pretty good option actually and will give you time to think about what you really want to do. It'll also teach you discipline and work ethics which are invaluable.

Trades are another good option. Although there are tons of different trades you could get into, I would strongly encourage electrical or plumbing. Go online and locate a local electrical or plumbing union and call or visit them to get more info on apprenticeship. Electrical and plumbing field has lot of different concentration and specialization so you can see what interest you. Trust me when I say financial opportunities in both fields are tremendous, and you'll pretty much always have a job. Great thing about both programs are that you won't have any college loans to pay back and you'll make money as you learn. Later, you can also work for someone or work for yourself by having your own company. Trust me, if I could do all over again, I would've skipped college and gone straight to plumbing apprenticeship.

 

[NoShangriLa]

The alternatives are vast but many may not be as lucrative as college degrees.

IMHO, the army isn't a wise decision because foot soldiers tend to be use by politician as canon fodders for their own agenda instead for the greater good. Trade school however is a good alternative because you get pay while you are train and the wages are very competitive and are as well pay as engineering career.

<-- College 7 years full time & 2 years part time ended up with an industrial design deg & computer science deg. Quit the lifeless network/database admin job after 5 years & now a happy 4th year plumber apprentice (mechanical plumbing - geothermal/HVAC).

[add] I'm Asian, and the family wasn't happy with my decision, however I now make as much money as when I was working as a net/database admin. I will be pulling in 80K next year once I get the ticket.

UA careers $22-$29 + benefits (total up to $38 USD/hour) Western Canada it can be as high as $36 + benefits (total $47.83 CAD/hour, foreman/general forman can get as high as $56.08 CAD/hour).

 

[Duddy]

Since your on a tech forum, why not get your MCSE? I'm doing it now and it's much easier than I thought. At the rate I'm going I'll be done in 2 months.

Then get a CCNA and get a job starting at $60K or more. Easy.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: chusteczka
...

Transfer to a different curriculum or a different college if you need to but make sure you follow what interests you. Do not dropout of college altogether and do not join the military! ...

I thought military actually sounds like a really good idea. I almost regret not doing it myself, but I was fortunate enough to have a full ride to school (so they didn't have to pay off any loans or whatnot)

But yeah, military and then college seems pretty doable. You get a salary after you leave and while you go to college, which is awesome. And they pay for your schooling. What's not to like? The only downside is you have to spend several years in the military...

I cannot stress this part of my previous post enough.

Originally posted by: chusteczka
... I enlisted for six years and after the first year, wanted only to get out of the Navy and return to school. Every day I woke up hating life but telling myself just get through that day and I will be one more day closer to my discharge and school. This provided extreme motivation for school that pushed me from the local community college through a highly ranked engineering college. ...

All I wanted to do for 5 long years was go to school. I am not kidding that I woke up every morning telling myself to get through one more day and that is one more day closer to my discharge and closer to college.

Disadvantages to military service that I experienced include:

• long work hours
• dirty conditions
• "blue-collar" type job
• high level of stress

These disadvantages came in the form of:

• 90 hour work weeks
• 36 hour work days, without sleep
• cleaning the bilge
• high stress
• a constant feeling that my potential was not being met
• five separate occasions of having belongings stolen from me
  • thrice by my own shipmates, on a submarine no less
  • once by people on another ship when I rented a room in a large house, and
  • one time actively robbed on the street outside the base.

To be fair, advantages to military service that I experienced, include:

• knowledge and experience gained
• notoriety of having served my country
• earning the respect of my shipmates

These advantages came in the form of:

• The confidence of having survived six years in the military
• making the most of my time and learning everything I could in the time I was there, this was the only thing that made me happy each day for the first couple years
• On the submarine:
  • repairing and operating the diesel engine
  • graduating at the top of my class for the oxygen generator as the most junior person in the class, and thereafter being so important to my submarine's operations that the boat could not go underway without me
  • operating and repairing the refrigeration system
  • standing auxiliary machine room watch
  • having the reputation of a knowledgeable mechanic anywhere I went on my submarine and later on the submarine tender
  • participating on a long and boring six-month Mediterranean cruise
  • qualifying as a torpedo loader and participating in "The Night of One Thousand Adcaps", when we qualified our torpedo room for torpedo operations and shot twenty Advanced Capability Torpedoes in twenty hour stint at the rate of one torpedo and hour
  • qualifying in submarine warfare
  • earning a respected nickname among the crew
  • being held responsible for repair of a 20" hydraulic accumulator for the steering system a day before going underway.
• On the submarine tender
  • qualifying as diesel engine operator in two days to support the ship's operations at sea
  • working in the engine room and boiler room and earning the respect of my fellow engineers
  • being trusted enough by the highly respected Damage Control Team to teach more than 200 surface sailors damage control techniques in preparation for a very important annual inspection
  • later being accepted as a respected member of the Damage Control Team.

Yes, I am proud of what I learned and accomplished while in the military but I am even more proud that I now hold an engineering degree. The military experience does not pay well even though it does earn respect. The engineering degree provides the opportunity to create the equipment that is used on the ships, rather than merely operate the equipment. The engineering degree also pays better and has provided me the ability to understand this world better.