Is there an advantage/disadvantage to a USB vs. a PCI modem?

[pm]

H8Tank: That wasn't my statement, that was Majiks.

And on what basis are you saying that Modus rant is "full of crap"? Have you ever looked at the FPS difference in a 3D game and seen the performance drop?

Try this test - I have and this is why I agree with Modus that a good Winmodem is the very close to the equal of a good hardware modem. Put in a hardware modem, log onto the Internet and download a big file from some fast site. Benchmark your system. Shut down, pull out the hardware modem and replace with a Winmodem, log back on and download the same file and benchmark. The difference on my system was extremely small.

Computers are a matter of performance versus cost. You can get more performance by paying more money. The trick is to maximize performance while minimizing the amount of money you spend to do it. The cost difference between a hardware modem and a winmodem is about $50. My arguement is that this money is better spent elsewhere to improve performance. You are welcome to tell me that this is a load of crap, but it's my opinion and my opinion is based on real world's tests that I have performed.

 

[Modus]

H8Tank,

<<Take up board games cause winmodem gaming sux, unless you're into the 2-d world of internet role playing.>>

On the one hand you criticize a newbie junior member for a minor little mistake, and on the other you go on to show an even more colossal ignorance for the facts that have been established in this thread, namely: CPU usage incurred by winmodems on modern systems is insignificant, and modem performance (latency and throughput) is roughly constant across software and hardware based technology. However much you believe winmodem gaming &quot;sux&quot;, it doesn't change the fact that a common Lucent LT or Conexant HCF can achieve ping times more or less equivalent to a conventional hardware modem. I've showed the results I achieved. Can you do better?

<<I compare modus's rant for winmodems to cliton's shaking finger, I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN!!!, it's a bunch of crap.>>

It is a severe blow to my self esteem that you have called me a liar. Without your approval, I will be forced into a desperate search for a new venue for my ideas. You have single-handedly destroyed my will to live. Excuse me while I retire to the kitchen and preheat the oven.

Modus

 

[Vrangel]

<< winmodems incur processor usage unacceptable for demanding applications like online 3D gaming >>



I couldnt have said it better myself.
And I take it out of context of course, just like you do.

Now about experience.The fact that you install winmodems in countless systems is irrelevant.
The fact that you never in your life played FPS games online is relevant.
When you opine about 'online 3D gaming' you simply dont know what you are talking about.
Here is what countless Q3A gamers experience:
Winmodem ingame Q3A ping : 200+
HW modem ingame Q3A ping : 110+

PS I guess HW modem can wipe out half of a profit you make on a sale.
So your winmodem obsession is understandable.
I only object when you are trying to sell it as a gaming solution.

EDIT
My winmodem lost connection ten minutes after this post.

 

[Modus]

Vrangle,

<<And I take it out of context of course, just like you do.>>

Please don't lie. Show me one quote I've taken out of context, missrepresenting the view of the writer. Your quote, on the other hand. . .

<<Now about experience.The fact that you install winmodems in countless systems is irrelevant.>>

Oh of course it's irrelevant. After all, how would some one like me who's installed, tested, and personally used countless winmodems, know anything at all about winmodems? The very idea is preposterous!

<<you never in your life played FPS games online>>

Please don't lie.

<<Here is what countless Q3A gamers experience:
Winmodem ingame Q3A ping : 200+
HW modem ingame Q3A ping : 110+>>

Actually, the only person who seems to have experienced that is you. Everyone else with a modern HCF winmodem is quite pleased with it. Of course, I will go on to show why those statistics are impossible, AND why even if they are correct (which they are not) they still prove my point in spades. I don't expect you to read this, much less comprehend it, but here's hoping:

First of all, we've seen that a typical Lucent LT achieves ping-to-ISP times of 98ms, better than or equal to a typical hardware modem. Logically, this translates into equal ping times to any server, since the modem latency only affects the first and last hop, not any of the intermediate hops between external servers. Second, we've seen that the CPU utilization of a winmodem on a modern CPU is insignificant. Therefore, we've covered the only two factors which can affect in-game ping times with a winmodem: latency and CPU usage.

In effect, you are claiming that winmodems exhibit almost twice as much in-game latency simply &quot;because they do&quot;. There is no logical reason for what you say to happen.

Even so, assuming that your data is correct (which it almost certainly is not) my point is still valid: winmodems provide better value for all users. You could pay $36 for the very cheapest hardware modem, or you could pay fully four times less, $9, for a winmodem that (according to your obviously flawed data) exhibits less than twice as much latency and completely identical performance in other areas. And keep in mind that both modems are adequate for any online activity.

So, regardless of whether or not your claims are true, winmodems are still a better value.

<<PS I guess HW modem can wipe out half of a profit you make on a sale. So your winmodem obsession is understandable.>>

I -- like any other system builder -- work with a fairly strict proportional profit margin. I mark up 11.1% on every piece of hardware I sell. So, selling systems with hardware modems would actually increase my profit. Yet, I advocate winmodems, even to customers who would let me sell them anything. Does that tell you something?

<<I only object when you are trying to sell it as a gaming solution.>>

I'm selling modems here? Good thing you let me know. . .

<<EDIT My winmodem lost connection ten minutes after this post.>>

I'm sure it did.

Modus

 

[StanTheMan]

For the correct link, click <a href=&quot;http://www.cyberrebate.com/catalog/...0NRJVAA7SR2LXP00SPNE42WAC27RM4&quot;>here</a>.

Address:
http://www.cyberrebate.com/catalog/...&amp;mscssid=290NRJVAA7SR2LXP00SPNE42WAC27RM4

 

[StanTheMan]

This one is, I guess, software modem. Why? bcos it doesn't support DOS, and it requires pentium 166 or highrer to run.

 

[Vrangel]

Modus
I know many Q3A players .They do not install modems every day but they surely play every day.
And in Q3A ping is automatically displayed every time you get fragged.

Your theories may sound convincing but in theory even communism works.
Fire up Q3A(or another FPS) and report your ingame ping.
If its 110+ then you will prove me wrong.

Some winmodem players are indeed happy with their 200 ping.
Thanks to you they dont know any better.

EDIT
I do not question winmodem as a value solution.
Its not very good for online gaming ,thats all.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Just the thread I've been looking for ...

Anybody tried the SupraMax PCI modem. Fairly cheap solution I was thinking of trying for someone who wanted an inexpensive PCI modem (they have no ISA slots and want something internal only).

 

[Modus]

Vrangle,

<<Your theories may sound convincing but in theory even communism works.>>

No, it doesn't. Communist theory naively assumes people will work hard to support their less fortunate fellow man. But people are greedy; they work for themselves alone. Capitalism recognizes and exploits this, which is why it is relatively successful.

<<Fire up Q3A(or another FPS) and report your ingame ping. If its 110+ then you will prove me wrong.>>

Actually the burden is on you to prove your data, not for me to disprove something I've already shown to be technically implausible.

Besides, I have ADSL now so it wouldn't really be fair

But remember, it doesn't need to be 110+ to prove my point. As I showed above, even your own data proves that winmodems provide better bang for the gaming buck.

Look, we've been over this a dozen times already. You're keep recycling the same old objections and I keep regurjitating the same tired answers. By now nearly all of the experienced professionals on this board agree that modern winmodems perform so similar to hardware modems as to render the latter price prohibitive.

Can we stipulate and say that, while both modem technologies are completely adequate for any online activity, hardware modems provide slightly better latency than winmodems for a price premium that may be justified for the serious online FPS enthusiast?

Fair enough?

Modus

 

[Modus]

Midnight Rambler,

The SupraMax is not the best winmodem. Try some of these:

http://queen.pricewatch.com/search/search.idq?ne=22535&amp;l=22489&amp;qc=%22LUCENT%

Modus

 

[Dantoo]

Damned if I didn't stick my head in here to learn something... and I've learnt quite a bit.

I'm a bit nervous about running through a &quot;field of fire&quot; but here are my own experiences/observations. (I build, install, upgrade and provide support for my own ISP).

You guys have to remember that you know about 2000% more than the average dial-up user. Most help calls come from people that aren't even sure if they are actually successfully dialling in.

Hardware modems give us the least problems because they continue to work even after defaulting to the windows native drivers.
ISA modems are rare and give steady service, almost no support issues.

PCI cards come in two batches, pre and post V.90. Most support issues of older cards arise because the user is unable to upgrade the firmware and drivers. The older Rockwell chipsets and HCF types seem generally to be stable if you stand aside the previous issue of driver updates.

Users that have installed USB modems have reported them to be totally unsuitable for game play. Tests to check the claims, done right here, by me, have shown ping times to increase by >300% against our local server. (Only one brand tested, two different modems with latest drivers).

Equipment compatability problems do occur. I cannot get modems based on the Conexant RS56/SP-PCI chip to work with our Nortel gear with any stability.

rnmcd - my only advice is this, call your ISP and ask if there is any specific modem/s they have trouble with. Exclude them and then buy the best value for money deal you can get. You'll pay more for a USB modem and gain nothing unless you want to keep your PCI slots for something else.

 

[Vrangel]

<< Can we stipulate and say that, while both modem technologies are completely adequate for any online activity, hardware modems provide slightly better latency than winmodems for a price premium that may be justified for the serious online FPS enthusiast? >>



Remove word 'slightly'(for brevity ) and I sign that.

In Q3A tournaments 10 less ping gives an advantage.
50 less ping is an unfair advantage.

EDIT
I am switching from ADSL to cable for this very reason.
My best ADSL ping is 50. With cable I hope to have 30-35.

 

[Modus]

In the interests of compromise:

&quot;While both modem technologies are completely adequate for any online activity, hardware modems provide better latency than software modems for a price premium that may be justified for the serious online FPS enthusiast.&quot;

Signed,

Modus

Also singned,
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[Vrangel]

Agreed.

Vrangel.

 

[Vrangel]

Dantoo
Very interesting post.
I didnt know that USB modems are so bad.
Thanks.