I don't think anyone thinks manual mode is difficult.
I don't.
I mere think manual mode is very slightly slower.
Approx. 2 secs.
2 seconds is a lot.
I don't.
I mere think manual mode is very slightly slower.
Approx. 2 secs.
2 seconds is a lot.
so far the 5D3 and 6D have it. the SL1 is new so it might have it as well, but there's not much documentation for it.
it's located beneath the Auto ISO setting. if you had it it'd look like this:
Depends on what you're shooting and what kind of control you want.
Pretty sure the original question in this thread was how can you shoot with a fixed Aperture and Shutter speed while leaving the ISO to automatically adjust. In that case Manual is the fastest way possible and really the only way possible. If I was shooting a basketball game I'd shoot in manual mode and it would be far easier than shutter priority and playing with the exposure compensation button.
If I was shooting a flower on a cloudy day I'd shoot in Aperture priority.
If I was shooting something like the ocean at sunset and was going for a specific effect like soft water I might shoot in shutter priority and it would be the fastest. Sure I could shoot the previous two in manual but in this case I don't really care that much about the aperture since I'd be shooting with a wide angle lens and I'd rather have a larger aperture than higher ISO.
When using auto ISO, I do not like the camera to be in charge of more than one setting. The camera has a minimum shutter speed but what about a max? It happened to me once on a D200. I set the aperture and the camera set the shutter speed and ISO. I was outside shooting a football game during the day. Some of my weird combos ended up being a shutter speed of 1/2000 with an ISO of 1600. I didn't need a shutter speed that high and I had all kinds of noise in my picture. If you already know your aperture and shutter speed, then best to set it in manual and let the camera take care of it of the ISO. If you set it to aperture priority and have a minimum shutter speed, the camera may not respond the way you would in a given situation.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
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I don't think most cameras can do this. Mine can't. If I set it to manual, I have to set ISO manually.
Throckmorton
Lifer
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Huh? I'm talking about how difficult it is to shoot in manual mode with just one dial to control both aperture and shutter. Not to mention, there's no dial for ISO so you can only change it by going through the damn menus.
Entry level camera have one command dial. It's not that big a deal to push the exposure compensation button or to modify and adjust the second setting.
What camera do you have that doesn't have auto-iso in manual mode? I think I've been confusing your posts with Glens.
What camera do you have that doesn't have auto-iso in manual mode? I think I've been confusing your posts with Glens.
I know most if not all Nikon DSLR's have an Auto ISO function where you specify the lowest shutter speed, and any scene requiring a lower speed raises the ISO instead. Not all camera makers have this unfortunately, last time I checked.
Exactly. I'll admit that with lower level cameras you have do dance a little more to get from one setting to another in manual, but it's usually just another context button to change the dial mode. It does require that you are familiar with your camera so studying the manual is useful.
Anyways on to my main post,
As to ISO, Even with higher level cameras there usually isn't a dedicated ISO dial. Even with the D7100 or D600 you have to hold the ISO button and use a dial that is used for something else, which is similar to many lower level cameras. There are software features such as Easy-ISO in upper level cameras which will let you program a dial to control ISO while in Aperture Priority mode, but that means you are displacing another control. If you really want those features then you do like the rest of us and pony up the dollars, but those features won't make better photos so you aren't missing out. Decide what ISO you should be using and leave it there.
People tend to rely on auto-ISO, but the premise of what many of us are saying is that ISO generally shouldn't be changed so dynamically. As a photographer you should learn what your camera can do and which ISO settings work in a given environments. Auto-ISO is a crutch. It is useful on vacation or in places where you shifting dynamically in light conditions such as alternating between indoors and outdoors, but its also a gamble because it can crush image quality in some circumstances by using irrationally high ISO settings and pouring noise in. Newer cameras have a shutter speed gate on the auto-iso, but its still oddball sometimes. I'm running manual ISO 98% percent of the time and run aperture priority. At that point its just a matter of watching what shutter speeds the camera is throwing at me...95% of the time I only ever need one dial.
On a sunny day you can expect ISOs of 100-400 depending how bright it is and what DOF you want. Step indoors and you are instantly in the 1600-3200 range assuming indoor light is decent.. In low light you are going to be 3200-6400 depending on how fast your lens is and how much DOF you are willing to sacrifice. This is all assuming no or weak flash. Just ballpark your ISO and go. Sometimes you might use a bit more ISO than maybe you needed, but at least there will be consistency with the images and if you shoot raw you can pull some of that noise out after the fact.
For the OP,
Assuming they are using the 35mm f/1.4 they described in the other thread and hand held, I would just start at 6400 ISO, between 1/40 and 1/50 shutter, and around f/2.0 and see what you get. At that point it should be just a matter of working the aperture a bit to find the exposure you want. 5-10 test shots should lock you in. If you have a tripod you can slow the shutter down a bit and gain a bit more DOF or drop the ISO a tad to lower the noise. The tricky part will be DOF at > F/1.8 which I mentioned in an earlier thread. Wide apertures are a double edged sword.
Also, whatever settings you ultimately use, write them down.
For other help take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
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Yeah it is a big deal, it's extremely clunky and annoying and time consuming to constantly push the damn button on the fly when you're trying to photograph. And the only reason the cameras have a single dial is to upsell you to the higher end cameras. That would be OK if maybe the next level up from budget had the 2 dials, but no-- With Sony you need the $900 A77
Well, good to know of one tiny thing of Nikon DSLRs that's a definite positive: my D90 allows me to choose 'Auto ISO' in Manual mode - at which point it also allows me to choose the maximum ISO and the minimum shutter speed it could go to. (I don't remember it well now, but I believe the D40 allowed this too). I mostly leave this Auto ISO on, unless it's something I don't want the camera to fiddle with - as in for fireworks late at night, when I want low ISO for extended shutter speed.
I also like that I can press down the ISO button and use the main command dial to change values (also works for the image quality, WB, exposure and shooting-mode buttons).
I also like that I can press down the ISO button and use the main command dial to change values (also works for the image quality, WB, exposure and shooting-mode buttons).
I'm pretty sure the canons can do that too. What I'm not aware of the canons being able to do is setting the minimum shutter speed like setting auto-iso like AkumaX says the 5d3 and 6d can do.
The lack of actual buttons and the second control wheels has always been a drawback of the "budget" dslr's. The following comment to nobody in particular, but it seems people buy certain cameras without researching fully and then expect features that a higher end camera has. Just do what I do and buy the generation back. Instead of a T5i or T4i, I bought a 60d for the control wheel. I guess that won't help if the feature you want is only on the 5d3 or 6d though.
Ever shoot a football game in the late afternoon with lots of sun and shadows? Mainly I use it for that. Can't change ISO so quickly when trying to follow a guy running with a ball through sun and shadows.
I understand what you mean. That's why I specifically mentioned that it is useful when shooting in places where light conditions are shifting dynamically. You just mentioned a good example of that.
I'm assuming you would be shooting in shutter priority mode in that case. Personally I would probably manually dial in ISO that is a bit more than I would need in shadows so that I can keep the aperture closed down a bit more and widen the DOF to help keep things in focus and then slowly add ISO over time to account for reducing light levels. That's how I would do it, but I concur completely that Auto-ISO is very useful in these conditions.
Nope manual. Need to be wide open for DOF and need a certain shutter speed (1/1000). Want to keep the noise as low as possible. I take photos for a booster club and we make plaques for individual players so I want only that player in focus so I always shoot wide open. Most times its 2.8 but if I use a teleextender, then its at 4.
Manual mode, set your ISO to 800, aperture to max (f/2.8?) and get to know the required shutter speeds for shadow vs. sun. Say, 1/200 in shadow and 1/600 in sun. You can use your single control dial to switch back and forth in minimal time. Or even go to Av mode with the same settings, and let the camera pick the shutter speed.
I don't get why it has to be the ISO that changes. What did photographers do back when an ISO change required dumping a new roll of film into the camera?
Of course I understand and love the fact that the ISO is changable on the fly, I do it all the time. But if you're in an environment where you're shooting a bunch of photos under the same lighting conditions in a short amount of time, you ought to be able to lock-in your ISO at the beginning and just use aperture and shutter speed controls to compensate for the little variances. Maybe halfway through the shoot, with a good number of shots already taken and a good number of trade-offs encountered, you decide you need more (or less), so you crank the ISO up (or down) a notch and then leave it there for the rest of the shoot (barring significant lighting changes).
And if you're in the above scenario on a regular basis, you are shooting on a semi-professional level and should go ahead and get a semipro camera with 2 control wheels. The consumer level bodies are for the people who shoot in P mode all the time. Not denigrating it, it's just what it is. We've all got to start somewhere, my first DSLR was a Digital Rebel (original) and I shot it mostly in P mode and got some great photos that I wouldn't have been able to get with a P&S. I dabbled in Av and Tv modes and screwed some things up, dabbled even less in M mode, but got to know things a little bit. Then I found a great deal on CL for a 40D body and 100mm Macro lens combo. I bought it intending to sell the body and keep the lens, but after using the body for a day or two I knew I had to sell the Rebel and keep the 40D. The improved handling just made so much of a difference for all of the manual/semi-manual modes.
Throckmorton
Lifer
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Then you end up with many shots that are unnecessarily grainy because there is enough light to turn down ISO with a lower shutter speed. Aperture and shutter speed are the creative controls. ISO is the technical one that should change automatically to adapt to the creative options you choose. You virtually never choose ISO because you want a certain ISO-- you just want as low as possible given the other two settings. It doesn't matter that with film cameras required changing rolls of film-- those days are long gone.
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shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
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"as low as possible given the other two settings." If only it were that easy! The problem is that the overall exposure level is also a creative decision. The camera's built-in metering may or may not reflect the photo that you want. It depends on what metering mode you have, what your subject is, how you're framing the photo, whether there's light sources in the photo.... all kinds of stuff.
The "candle-lit church" scenario could be a nightmare. Say you're using center-weighted metering. If there happens to be a candelabra in the center of the frame, the exposure is going to be stopped down by the camera, to compensate for the concentration of light sources in the center of the frame. But the candelabra is probably not the subject, and you probably don't want the candle flames themselves to be perfectly exposed -- you are probably concerned with some other subject, say, people standing to either side. Those people are going to be dark as hell while your candle flames are going to be a beautiful yellow. What you really want is for your candle flames to be on the verge of over-exposed, while your people's faces are nicely illuminated. And guess what? That's fairly easy to do in manual mode. Leave your camera in any mode where it is trying to make decisions for you (including Av and Tv or any Auto-ISO setting) and your exposures will be jumping all over the place.
So set the ISO as high as necessary, and no more. There is a reason for manual mode. It is when the photographer can set take his time and come up with 100% optimal exposure settings for the given lighting. You want faster, you need it automated. Fine. Just accept that there are some trade-offs, that the camera might not always make the same decisions that you would have made. Most photographers do not have trouble setting the ISO and then working within a 1-2 stop range on with aperture and shutter speed controls.
And my point in bringing up film is that you are kind of making a mountain out of a molehill. In my experience (estimating that I have shot about 100,000 frames in the past 5 years) I have found that in most static-lighting environments (even very dark ones) you will be able to work within a 1 stop range 75% of the time, and a 2 stop range 95% of the time. Most of the time, it is not worth it to worry about changing your ISO. Find an ISO that you're comfortable with, and stick with it for a while.
I'll give an example. Say I'm in a dark room photographing people at a party. I've found my "standard exposure" is ISO 1600, f/1.8, 1/50 using a 50mm f/1.4 lens. I should be able to get most of my shots within +/- 1 stop from this exposure. So on the dark end, I might go to f/1.4 and 1/40 (which is pushing things with respect to shutter speed, but I'd rather take my chances with 1/40 and ISO 1600 than get super grainy at ISO 3200), while on the bright end, I might leave aperture at f/1.8 and move the shutter speed up to 1/100. Yes, I would rather have ISO1600,f/1.8,1/100 than ISO800,f/1.8,1/50.
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The newer Canon's, when set to Auto ISO in Manual, will attempt to adjust the ISO according to the current aperture and shutter speed settings.
What was surprising about the 5D Mark II is that, even if you set it to Auto ISO in M, it will shoot ISO 400 no matter what! Later cameras (Rebels, 60D, 7D, etc...) had it changed correctly
Throckmorton
Lifer
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Yes we get that there are trade offs but most cameras don't even give the option
I hope this thread isn't turning into some sort of camera resentment between entry level and prosumer+ users. All of these cameras from entry level on up are capable of completely manual control for ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture and for the most part all of them offer the same level of control whether it is aperture or shutter priority modes, since both of those modes only use one dial. I agree that that some things are slower and more of a pain to accomplish on an entry level D-SLR, but the bottom line is that you can accomplish them. That's part of the deal when you play on the lower rung. Anyone who is unhappy with the way their camera handles should think about upgrading to a body more in line with the capabilities they are after.
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jhansman
Platinum Member
- Feb 5, 2004
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The D60 I mentioned allowed you to use the Main dial to change shutter speed, and press the exposure compensation button while turning the dial to change aperture. A bit clunky, but it worked. Granted, I was shooting static subjects, so having to fiddle with the exp. button while rotating the dial was not a big deal for me. I now shoot a D7000, which has two dials, both of with also work in concert with various buttons to change almost every setting you would use. If your camera has a Manual mode, it ought to have a way to adjust both shutter speed and aperture with your dial (assuming, of course, you are not talking about the Mode dial on the top).
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I fix ISO. I look around and look at how dark the shadows are. ISO200? 400? Sounds good. Then go to f/2.8 on my 70-200 and shoot in Av mode. Done.
I'd also argue that if you're using the light meter on the camera extensively in manual, you might as well use Av or Tv.
Also don't people know that in Auto ISO you have like 1/3 or 2/3 stops? On some cameras you get ISO 50 or whatever, but it really is just an ISO 100 shot underexposed and then with its RAW image corrected with a +1 exposure compensation. You probably end up with more noise that way. So screw auto ISO. Stick to manual ISO and pick the full stops.
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