Is there a way to protect against an "empty package" scam from an online buyer?

[Doppel]

My largest concern selling things of any expense online has always been the fear that a buyer will pretend a package arrived empty or with a block of wood or something. It seems there is little recourse for a seller in this scenario.

The one way to convincingly prove that a package was properly sent would be to do the final tape-up in the post office/UPS place while filming in one continuous loop and then bringing it to the counter and sending it out. If not done discreetly this would seem akward, and if done discreetly I have to assume it may not even be legal (at least in a USPS office).

Are there other approaches that work?

 

[gorcorps]

If you get screwed, you get screwed. If you use PayPal it won't matter what proof you have because they apparently don't even look at it. You'd be better off using Amazon payments or something.

 

[Doppel]

If you get screwed, you get screwed. If you use PayPal it won't matter what proof you have because they apparently don't even look at it. You'd be better off using Amazon payments or something.

In fact, this would be for Amazon--I agree paypal you're basically on your own. At least with Amazon they have real people who seem to care, although if there is even a grain of truth to this story: http://www.startupnation.com/start-...ellers-need-to-rethink-theamazon-fba-program/ Amazon doesn't care about sellers, either.

I've had great luck selling online and only had one guy try to jack me, but I always get nervous sending out an item of real value.

 

[smakme7757]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I sold a laptop on Ebay. The payment cleared and all was well. Then about a week later the funds were taken back by Paypal, with the reason of a stolen credit card.

My only saving grace was that the buyer had their actual details in their profile, so it wasn't fake. It turned out that the buyer had used their mum/dads credit card. Then the parents did a charge back. For some strange reason they didn't force the kid to sent the laptop back however I managed to "scare" this kid into sending the goods back by sending him an SMS. After a few hours digging around online i found his mobile number. So in that case the buyer used a credit card which wasn't theirs. If i didn't play detective they would have gotten a free Laptop. That is fortunately the only time it's ever occurred and I've sold around 70 item on Ebay. Not much, but 1 in 70 isn't too bad. It's just a shame people like this exist.

Answering your question . I don't really think the is anything you can do. Scammers are on both sides of the fence. Who do Paypal or Ebay believe? Your word against the buyers unfortunately.

 

[CZroe]

Get a Looxcie wearable DVR camera.

I've recorded packaging through hand off to USPS numerous times. Especially important for selling high-value items, like the XBOX One/PS4.

 

[luv2liv]

i stopped selling on ebay altogether.
sent a perfectly working ps3. buyer with only 3 history claimed machine was dead. ebay promptly refunded the dude and i was screwed. maybe the lesson is to sell only people with lots of history and good ratings...

but can ebay let u discriminate against buyers with low ratings???

 

[Doppel]

but can ebay let u discriminate against buyers with low ratings???

Not really I asked this in another thread recently. You can block the bottom of the barrel total crap buyers but there is no way to limit buyers in a way such as "No buyers with less than 30 items in history and a rating of 95%+", for example. I think there should be; leave it up to the seller to limit their audience as they see fit.

In Nov I saw a lot of PS4s going to buyers with 0 rating. Tell me how would you feel comfortable sending a $600-700 item to somebody with no rating history? You might as well throw the thing in the trash and save yourself the time.

 

[Meghan54]

In fact, this would be for Amazon--I agree paypal you're basically on your own. At least with Amazon they have real people who seem to care, although if there is even a grain of truth to this story: http://www.startupnation.com/start-...ellers-need-to-rethink-theamazon-fba-program/ Amazon doesn't care about sellers, either.

I've had great luck selling online and only had one guy try to jack me, but I always get nervous sending out an item of real value.

Understand, the FBA program is not anything like an individual seller on Amazon. I've sold some quite high end stuff on Amazon and so far, have had no problems. Cheapest item was in excess of $500 and have an item up right now for $1100.

Not too worried about the "empty box" claims as UPS/FedEx actually do weigh the package when dropped off, even if you prepay for its shipping. They do that to make sure you've not underestimated the package's weight. So, it'd be hard to claim the box was empty when the shipper has XX pounds of weight documented.

 

[CZroe]

Understand, the FBA program is not anything like an individual seller on Amazon. I've sold some quite high end stuff on Amazon and so far, have had no problems. Cheapest item was in excess of $500 and have an item up right now for $1100.

Not too worried about the "empty box" claims as UPS/FedEx actually do weigh the package when dropped off, even if you prepay for its shipping. They do that to make sure you've not underestimated the package's weight. So, it'd be hard to claim the box was empty when the shipper has XX pounds of weight documented.

Doesn't matter. People scamming buyers with the empty box scam often add dead weight like old phone books. They'll just claim that you did that.

 

[Murloc]

if you're just an occasional private seller, just stay local.
Use craiglist or local auction websites and meet up.

The only thing I ever sold was a console and I sold it to a forum member of a local forum I frequented so that was easy.

If you're a professional seller, I guess you have to take loss into account and avoid paypal for pricey stuff.

 

[Doppel]

Doesn't matter. People scamming buyers with the empty box scam often add dead weight like old phone books. They'll just claim that you did that.

Yeah, that would work, unless the buyer was too dumb and just said it was empty and then it turns out no it really weighed 4 lbs, but they could say it had junk in it.

I know FBA is not for small time guys but that article was kind of a huge load of bullshit, due apparently to a single counterfeit event (which very possibly was bogus anyway) his entire thing was shut down and now Amazon had 55,000 of his items in stock, too.

 

[Leros]

This happened to me on eBay many years. I sold a $300 item. The seller got the item and left me good feedback. A month later the seller filed a Paypal claim saying he never got the item. I gave Paypal my tracking information which includes the package weight. The seller told Paypal the box was filled with newspapers. Paypal closed the dispute siding with the seller and took $300 out of my linked bank account.

 

[Genx87]

This is why I dont sell across state lines and use craigslist. Your legal recourse is limited when the buyer is hundreds of miles away.

 

[purbeast0]

Not really I asked this in another thread recently. You can block the bottom of the barrel total crap buyers but there is no way to limit buyers in a way such as "No buyers with less than 30 items in history and a rating of 95%+", for example. I think there should be; leave it up to the seller to limit their audience as they see fit.

In Nov I saw a lot of PS4s going to buyers with 0 rating. Tell me how would you feel comfortable sending a $600-700 item to somebody with no rating history? You might as well throw the thing in the trash and save yourself the time.

i sold a ps4 launch weekend to someone with 0 feedback. it was 100% obvious the guy was just trolling ebay and bidding on ps4's that he had no intention of paying for. thing is, i was manually cancelling bids from 0 feedback users registered within the past few days. this guy sniped the auction at the last second and had registered that day. the guy who was the high bidder with 2 seconds left had like 50+ feedback.

he then sent me a very troll message which was obvious he wasn't going to pay and was just screwing ebay sellers.

thing that sucks is that the window to make a lot of money was so short, so in the end he cost me about $100. i'm 100% done selling on ebay now. that was the first thing i sold on there though in probably 3-4 years.

 

[yhelothar]

This happened to me on eBay many years. I sold a $300 item. The seller got the item and left me good feedback. A month later the seller filed a Paypal claim saying he never got the item. I gave Paypal my tracking information which includes the package weight. The seller told Paypal the box was filled with newspapers. Paypal closed the dispute siding with the seller and took $300 out of my linked bank account.

The seller? You mean the buyer?

 

[Doppel]

i sold a ps4 launch weekend to someone with 0 feedback. it was 100% obvious the guy was just trolling ebay and bidding on ps4's that he had no intention of paying for. thing is, i was manually cancelling bids from 0 feedback users registered within the past few days. this guy sniped the auction at the last second and had registered that day. the guy who was the high bidder with 2 seconds left had like 50+ feedback.

he then sent me a very troll message which was obvious he wasn't going to pay and was just screwing ebay sellers.

thing that sucks is that the window to make a lot of money was so short, so in the end he cost me about $100. i'm 100% done selling on ebay now. that was the first thing i sold on there though in probably 3-4 years.

The stupid thing is there are so many ways Ebay could so very easily deal with this and protect sellers, from allowing a limit on who bids to well-rated only, to not allowing any new bidders to come in an hour before auction end (sellers option to use or not)--that last one alone would have prevented what happened to you.

I sell most stuff on amazon now, although the irritating thing is that virtually no buyers on it leave ratings, so the seller review ratings are all much lower than on Ebay (the negative buyers are going to leave a rating, but positive are less likely to).

 

[SparkyJJO]

I don't sell on ebay, ever. I only sell on here or other forums. If something seems off, I don't sell it to that person.

So far, I've only ever had one problem, which could probably have been avoided if I had been a little more careful. I've since been more cautious and not quite so trusting and everything has been fine since.

 

[madoka]

This happened to me on eBay many years. I sold a $300 item. The seller got the item and left me good feedback. A month later the seller filed a Paypal claim saying he never got the item. I gave Paypal my tracking information which includes the package weight. The seller told Paypal the box was filled with newspapers. Paypal closed the dispute siding with the seller and took $300 out of my linked bank account.

I'm assuming instead of "seller" you really mean "buyer."

Same thing happened to me. I sold a small item. Buyer received it and left good feedback. Then a few weeks later did a paypal chargeback claiming he never received it. I had to take it up with a supervisor, but they eventually sided with me when I pointed out the feedback he left. It's just common sense. However, I think it helped that the prick was running this same scam on others at the time.

 

[Murloc]

i sold a ps4 launch weekend to someone with 0 feedback. it was 100% obvious the guy was just trolling ebay and bidding on ps4's that he had no intention of paying for. thing is, i was manually cancelling bids from 0 feedback users registered within the past few days. this guy sniped the auction at the last second and had registered that day. the guy who was the high bidder with 2 seconds left had like 50+ feedback.

he then sent me a very troll message which was obvious he wasn't going to pay and was just screwing ebay sellers.

thing that sucks is that the window to make a lot of money was so short, so in the end he cost me about $100. i'm 100% done selling on ebay now. that was the first thing i sold on there though in probably 3-4 years.

couldn't you contact the second user and sell him the thing privately?

 

[Rakehellion]

My largest concern selling things of any expense online has always been the fear that a buyer will pretend a package arrived empty or with a block of wood or something. It seems there is little recourse for a seller in this scenario.

The one way to convincingly prove that a package was properly sent would be to do the final tape-up in the post office/UPS place while filming in one continuous loop and then bringing it to the counter and sending it out. If not done discreetly this would seem akward, and if done discreetly I have to assume it may not even be legal (at least in a USPS office).

Are there other approaches that work?

Use ebay. They side with the buyer 100% of the time.

 

[Rakehellion]

couldn't you contact the second user and sell him the thing privately?

There's a "second chance" offer for when your high bidder doesn't pay.

 

[SaurusX]

couldn't you contact the second user and sell him the thing privately?

But then eBay couldn't take their 10% cut and PayPal couldn't take their 3.9% cut.

 

[J3S73R]

I actually had ebay side with me ONCE. It was the first and ONLY time I sold something. It was like 500~ and they disputed it, I showed pictures and tracking information and it was enough.

I have not sold anything since then, it scared the hell out of me to lose that much randomly.

 

[shortylickens]

Doesnt UPS weigh the box?
Isnt the shipping based on weight?

 

[homebrew2ny]

I have been a member of eBay for over 11 years, and in that time amassed hundreds of sales with 100% feedback. I say this because it might add weight to the fact that I stopped selling on eBay over a year ago because over the years it just became too lopsided as a buyers/scammers paradise. It is almost foolproof for a buyer/scammer to make off with free stuff (if only once) to even conceive using it anymore. "I received a empty package, broken item, not as described, ect..." Just about every and any situation one can think of involved a refund towards the buyer, period.

Having said that, eBay is also filled with many more honest buyers that scammers. With over 500 transactions under my belt, both as a buyer and seller, I never ran across a scammer, ever. I only stopped selling because of the inherent potential built in to eBays buyer protection system, giving them (the buyer) all the cards as it stands now. Back when sellers were able to leave (negative/meaningful) feedback for buyers, it was a different story, but now...

In the end, no matter where you sell something, you stand to run across a potential scammer. at least eBay offers an incredible pool of potential buyers, most of who are decent, for a reasonable fee. It still has become a tool I do not wish to use anymore but that's because I usually can find alternatives.

All you can really do is list your item properly, package and ship properly, and be as serviceable as possible. There is nothing you can do other than that. Scammers will find a way.