Is There a SPY INSIDE yr HDD?

[VirtualLarry]

Think so yes , it had an option in BIOS to hide CPU serial number :|

Thing is, all Intel CPUs have serial numbers; they're stored in the PI-ROM (processor information ROM), that is burned at the factory. If one were to disassemble BIOS code, they might find out a way to read it out.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Could overlap a "Political / News" forum topic, but I was never surprised by any of the "NSA revelations." I still regard Snowden -- technically -- as a criminal, and I argue that his single-handed actions might not have occurred but for the willy-nilly outsourcing of what had once been purely-governmental national security apparatus. Daniel Elsberg took a different path with "Pentagon Papers" but Elsberg defends Snowden.

This all arose from the creation of NSA around 1953. The telecommunications industry evolved along with it. Read some history of the agency like Bamford's "Puzzle Palace" or "Body of Secrets." There are the "employees" at the Fort Meade facility, but there are additional "assets" -- I think some 90,000 people when Bamford's "Body" book was published around 1999 -- scattered across the landscape. They even have their own "para-military" as dramatized in the 1993 film "Sneakers."

Around 1997, I came across the web-site in Germany of a distant relative. I say "distant," because the last name is singular: there were only 185 of us in the US in 1985 per SSA records, despite having come to these shores in 1850. The German was a "microwave" enthusiast and expert; had a very innovative web-site.

He was adamant that e-mail communication should use PGP encryption, and I obliged. He never explained why, but I pretty much deduced it: NSA didn't limit its snooping in foreign countries.

Around 1999, BBC produced a documentary outing what they knew about NSA's ECHELON system, which had been under development since the early 1980s. This soon morphed into something else, as FIOS and wireless gained ground.

And in that BBC production, it was clear that NSA could tap just about any telephone in the modern world.

All of this arose with the National Security Act of 1947 and the Cold War. By comparison, I can't speak for the chicken-littles who reacted to the Snowden affair, but I met a 20-something young woman a few years ago while having my SUV smogged, and somehow some topic involving Robert McNamara came up -- a name she didn't recognize. I mentioned the "Cold War." She responded, saying she learned about that in high-school history class:

"Oh, yeah . . . . we were fighting the Columnists," she said.

None of this eclipses the real issues, but I wasn't much surprised with the frenzy following the Snowden affair, either.

 

[Virgorising]

I'm trying to think of any information the NSA could get off my hard drive, that the government doesn't already have? Can't think of anything, unless they are stealing credit card numbers.

Very rational, William.....cept this off the chain COVERT until now invasion of privacy is sickening.....terror turns some agencies into rogues, and that is what has been happening since the inception of The Patriot Act.

I DON LIKE IT.:'(

 

[Virgorising]

Could overlap a "Political / News" forum topic, but I was never surprised by any of the "NSA revelations." I still regard Snowden -- technically -- as a criminal, and I argue that his single-handed actions might not have occurred but for the willy-nilly outsourcing of what had once been purely-governmental national security apparatus. Daniel Elsberg took a different path with "Pentagon Papers" but Elsberg defends Snowden.

This all arose from the creation of NSA around 1953. The telecommunications industry evolved along with it. Read some history of the agency like Bamford's "Puzzle Palace" or "Body of Secrets." There are the "employees" at the Fort Meade facility, but there are additional "assets" -- I think some 90,000 people when Bamford's "Body" book was published around 1999 -- scattered across the landscape. They even have their own "para-military" as dramatized in the 1993 film "Sneakers."

Around 1997, I came across the web-site in Germany of a distant relative. I say "distant," because the last name is singular: there were only 185 of us in the US in 1985 per SSA records, despite having come to these shores in 1850. The German was a "microwave" enthusiast and expert; had a very innovative web-site.

He was adamant that e-mail communication should use PGP encryption, and I obliged. He never explained why, but I pretty much deduced it: NSA didn't limit its snooping in foreign countries.

Around 1999, BBC produced a documentary outing what they knew about NSA's ECHELON system, which had been under development since the early 1980s. This soon morphed into something else, as FIOS and wireless gained ground.

And in that BBC production, it was clear that NSA could tap just about any telephone in the modern world.

All of this arose with the National Security Act of 1947 and the Cold War. By comparison, I can't speak for the chicken-littles who reacted to the Snowden affair, but I met a 20-something young woman a few years ago while having my SUV smogged, and somehow some topic involving Robert McNamara came up -- a name she didn't recognize. I mentioned the "Cold War." She responded, saying she learned about that in high-school history class:

"Oh, yeah . . . . we were fighting the Columnists," she said.

None of this eclipses the real issues, but I wasn't much surprised with the frenzy following the Snowden affair, either.

Fascinating comments. Again, I am convinced Snowden is motivated by emotional issues not character......but, I still applaud what he did.

Again, our system was meticulously conceived to insure checks and balances for the collective good. Forget the First Amendment, which is nuclear. For me, that includes whistle blowers.

 

[Virgorising]

Hard to decide. Black hats will do fraud and other crimes of that sort and you may lose lot of money out of it. The NSA/government can send you to jail for life if they find something they don't like, which, if they really want to, they will. But either way the fact that these holes are open is a HUGE issue.

Would need to know more details on how it communicates to the outside though so that could be blocked.

Huge.....nails it. Make no mistake.

 

[Virgorising]

Ha. After seeing a few presentations by some of the guys at the NSA, I'd really hope not. (Seriously, they have public presentations outlining some of technologies. Go look them up, some might be online.) A 14-year-old as smart as those guys ought be in college not in some basement. But you don't need to be as smart as the NSA to use the backdoors they worked in. You need some smarts, experience and persistence.

(Anyone advocating revolution should learn a bit or two from history.)

Well, if true, this is good to know. But I also don't underestimate festering adolescents with these kinda smarts.

When I say revolution, I mean a movement of the sort which, over time, brought about Civil Rights (now being eroded, of course).....or something akin to Act Up. I am no knee jerk ideologue.....but I am never ever in favor of violence.

Clear, if someone sued.....and this got to the current High Court.....spying with alacrity would possibly be upheld. Regard recent decisions.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Fascinating comments. Again, I am convinced Snowden is motivated by emotional issues not character......but, I still applaud what he did.

Again, our system was meticulously conceived to insure checks and balances for the collective good. Forget the First Amendment, which is nuclear. For me, that includes whistle blowers.

I have a theory, can't say at the moment whether it's "weak" or "strong" theory, but it's actually a bit funny. Kurt Vonnegut, in the novel "Breakfast of Champions," surmised that people -- people in America -- all attempt to behave like characters they've seen in the movies.

About a year or more before Snowden skipped to Hong Kong, the fourth of the "Bourne" films was released. It was "The Bourne Legacy." If you look at the plot of it, Aaron Cross and his brainy sweetcakes lead the "flight and pursuit" plot of the story, skipping to the Phillipines.

So call it the Vonnegut Theory of Snowden Behavior.

Elsberg took the Pentagon Papers to Senator Mike Gravel, who was on an appropriate oversight committee. Elsberg was a hero, but it was too . . . damn . . . late. I won't pontificate about that war, but I have a lot to say about it.

 

[Virgorising]

Hell, The NSA doesn't need access to your HDD. They can (maybe) sniff your WIFI traffic with a SIGINT Sat. http://fas.org/spp/military/program/sigint/androart.htm

:awe:

Hey, John....

Sorry, only now saw this. U bet. Which is why I only hook up my Wi-Fi when I have to. Which is rarely. Apart from those times, I even keep my router in a closet.

But re what we have now learned.....nobody online is safe. Nobody's system can function without a HDD.

 

[Virgorising]

I have a theory, can't say at the moment whether it's "weak" or "strong" theory, but it's actually a bit funny. Kurt Vonnegut, in the novel "Breakfast of Champions," surmised that people -- people in America -- all attempt to behave like characters they've seen in the movies.

About a year or more before Snowden skipped to Hong Kong, the fourth of the "Bourne" films was released. It was "The Bourne Legacy." If you look at the plot of it, Aaron Cross and his brainy sweetcakes lead the "flight and pursuit" plot of the story, skipping to the Phillipines.

So call it the Vonnegut Theory of Snowden Behavior.

Elsberg took the Pentagon Papers to Senator Mike Gravel, who was on an appropriate oversight committee. Elsberg was a hero, but it was too . . . damn . . . late. I won't pontificate about that war, but I have a lot to say about it.

Interesting theory. But I disagree. I think sometimes someone might identify with a given character in a film or in literature.....but those can not actually cause anyone to do or BE anything.

When I was little, I could never take Wonderwoman or other female action heros seriously, come on, she din even wear a mask! But I did identify with Batman! Totally. (I still do!) And my parent,s bless them, let me act out "being" batman, after dinner, in the basement, in the "Batcave" my dad made, and they even bought me a tiny cape and a mask (tho I hadda make the ears myself). But it was not the character which CAUSED me to do any of it; THE CHARACTER simply triggered an immediate case of recognition.....reflected & distilled what was factory loaded.....re wanting to save the world, protect innocent humans, while also remaining private to most.

Superman, not so much, only cause I had no desire to FLY. Well, without a 747, I mean.

Again, I submit Snowden is a born excitement junkie--felt that around 15 minutes into Citizen Four....and he needed nothing external to augment that propensity....forget create it, nor could anything external have changed it.

 

[crashtech]

Actually, I did run Ubuntu from a USB stick for a while. Slow, but workable.

 

[Virgorising]

Actually, I did run Ubuntu from a USB stick for a while. Slow, but workable.

Did I not read that ALL flash drives NOW bear the spy? I thought I did. Plus, why should a fine human like you have to settle for running an OS on USB????? I mean, given what we all pay for warpspeed everything? Cutting edge systems?
__________________________________________
Edit:

Just thought of something funny...well, not hah-hah funny, but bitterly ironic funny: what if we could all UNDO our addiction to SSDs & reverted to spinner drives and then only old ones? The price of used mechanical drives on ebay would go thru the roof, right? (No, cause the speed of SSDs is....the new NORM, there is no going back.)

Course do we know exactly when this spying achieved NEAR TOTAL access?

 

[Techhog]

K, that was cute.....but seriously, this does not shock you? Storage Mfgs are in league with them and do this?

I find it shocking. U think I am sheltered?

U think they can do this with our SSDs too? Flash drives? How would that be even possible?

Edit: U think re SSDs it could be in firmware?

This don creep everyone out? I am my cryptologist friend from MIT are the only ones taking this seriously and being creeped out? I just sent him the link a hour ago....even he did not know about this re hardware.

Why does this shock you? Have you been living under a rock for the past few years?

 

[Virgorising]

Why does this shock you? Have you been living under a rock for the past few years?

Methinks you are self protectively cynical and shut down. I make no apologizes for finding this shocking and unacceptable, most people I know do.

It's justified and healthy. Being artificially chill....the opposite.
________________________________
Edit: Not to mention the obvious: only those healthy enough to feel and express shock and disgust...and then, outrage.. by this or that....can maybe be a part of some effort/attempt to repair what is clearly broken.

It's a resigned, shut down citizenry which allows the foxes to steal the chicken coop with impunity. The privilege of Democracy demands responsibilities after all. to survive.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Interesting theory. But I disagree. I think sometimes sometimes with issues might identify with a given character in a film or in literature.....but those can not actually cause anyone to do anything.

When I was little, I could never take Wonderwoman or other female action heros seriously, come on, she din even wear a mask! But I did identify with Batman! Totally. (I still do!) And my parent,s bless them, let me act out "being" batman, after dinner, in the basement, in the "Batcave" my dad made, and they even bought me a tiny cape and a mask (tho I hadda make the ears myself). But it was not the character which CAUSED me to do any of it; THE CHARACTER simply triggered an immediate case of recognition.....reflected & distilled what was factory loaded.....re wanting to save the world, protect innocent humans, while also remaining private to most.

Superman, not so much, only cause I had no desire to FLY. Well, without a 747, I mean.

Again, I submit Snowden is a born excitement junkie--felt that around 15 minutes into Citizen Four....and he needed nothing external to augment that propensity....forget create it, nor could anything external have changed it.

Here's a dilemma about populist perception. One either accepts the value of formal education, or one dismisses it. Certain factions these days are perpetually whining about "liberal" professors on college campuses. There had been all sorts of angles to the propaganda -- probably hand-in-hand with a denial that there's a problem with rising college tuitions.

Snowden either dropped out or fell out of college at a JC in Maryland. Elsberg had an earned PhD, had served time in the Army in Vietnam before working at RAND Corporation.

It is impossible to compare the two men as equivalent. Yet Elsberg defends Snowden.

 

[imported_ats]

Did I not read that ALL flash drives NOW bear the spy? I thought I did. Plus, why should a fine human like you have to settle for running an OS on USB????? I mean, given what we all pay for warpspeed everything? Cutting edge systems?

There are many flash drives on the market that are locked down and not susceptible to things like BadUSB. In addition, there are many reasons for running an OS off of a flash drive and many OSes designed for just that reason. Tails or a tails like system, is an excellent way to keep financial information secure. And on any modern hardware out there, Tails or other in memory OSes like Tails provide full performance.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I wonder at what level these spy things are added in. Are they added in an actual product, or are they added in right at individual IC level while they are being manufacturered at the die level? If they're added to already manufactured products like hard drives, motherboards etc, I wonder how realistic it would be to start literally building a computer, from scratch, by sourcing parts out at sites like digikey.

The issue is, we need enough people to care about this so that enough brains get together to actually execute such a project and keep it organized. We basically need a hardware version of Linus Torvalds to step up and start designing an architecture from scratch using off the shelf components and make it open source.

I have a feeling this spy stuff is only going to continue to get worse. The government will keep trying to find ways that are harder and harder to detect. Hopefully enough people will step up to fight it somehow.

 

[WilliamM2]

Very rational, William.....cept this off the chain COVERT until now invasion of privacy is sickening.....terror turns some agencies into rogues, and that is what has been happening since the inception of The Patriot Act.

I DON LIKE IT.:'(

The government has been spying on it's own people since J. Edgar Hoover was in charge, probably even longer. That was long before the patriot act.

There are also tens of thousands of camera's all across the country now. Privacy is just an illusion.

 

[C1]

There are also tens of thousands of camera's all across the country now. Privacy is just an illusion.

Who needs/uses such information and for which purposes?
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.globalresearch.ca/rex-84-fema-s-blueprint-for-martial-law-in-america/3010

 

[Virgorising]

Here's a dilemma about populist perception. One either accepts the value of formal education, or one dismisses it. Certain factions these days are perpetually whining about "liberal" professors on college campuses. There had been all sorts of angles to the propaganda -- probably hand-in-hand with a denial that there's a problem with rising college tuitions.

Snowden either dropped out or fell out of college at a JC in Maryland. Elsberg had an earned PhD, had served time in the Army in Vietnam before working at RAND Corporation.

It is impossible to compare the two men as equivalent. Yet Elsberg defends Snowden.

For me, learning...chasing data every nano with focus and a great sense of adventure is the core privilege and dynamic of life. Formal education is essentially meant to instill and augment this unalloyed passion for learning lifelong, I think. And many luminaries dropped out of college early, i.e. Zuckerberg. I believe Gates as well....but they, just for openers. Some of the lamest humans I know have more than one graduate degree. Also, being truly gifted as per eyes by Marcel Proust, owes little to formal education.

Genius physicans can nail differential diagnoses in ways not owing to knowing science per se or the ability to read scans or lab printouts.....or really anything which can be taught formally.

So, for me, this is far more complex than people often think. It is also case specific.

As far as Snowden or anyone....for me, it's not just where someone goes, it's where they are COMING FROM that matters. Not where we go, but also, more what we Bring... and being free of any underlying toxic agendas.

And remembah.....I am Batman/Woman!!!():sneaky: Notice my Batmobile closely resembles a numbers matched, big block mint '67 Vette. But it don have original paint. GM did not offer that color.

 

[Virgorising]

Who needs/uses such information and for which purposes?
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.globalresearch.ca/rex-84-fema-s-blueprint-for-martial-law-in-america/3010

Answer: anyone driven by DEFENDING AGAINST off the chain terror and uber feelings of helplessness every second. Is who.

And, increasingly, since 9-11 that means many officials and Gov agencies, rationalizing all manner of covert ops. Also fueled the most costly, shameful, horrific foreign policy decision in modern history, via purposeful, abject lies by desperate, craven war mongers: Invading Iraq.

Truth is, sometimes I think I must be hallucinating. Other times, I wish I were.

 

[Red Squirrel]

They have face recognition on the cameras now too. They can pretty much track your location in real time. For the places that don't have cameras, the drones can see you. They can zoom in to something the size of a penny from like 60,000 feet. The sensor is actually a large array of cell phone cameras. I'm guessing there's an actual lens too so it can focus and zoom in/out.

This stuff is what you'd think was only possible in science fiction villain type movies.

 

[Virgorising]

The government has been spying on it's own people since J. Edgar Hoover was in charge, probably even longer. That was long before the patriot act.

There are also tens of thousands of camera's all across the country now. Privacy is just an illusion.

William.....pls get, IT's A MATTER OF DEGREE. It's also case-specific. Again, it is the privilege and the mandate of citizens to be pro active....to work to keep a given democracy REAL.

There will always be malcontents and messed up humans holding high positions, sociopaths (and worse), narcissists.....greed, ignoble beings. That's a given.

Also, beside the point.

 

[Virgorising]

There are many flash drives on the market that are locked down and not susceptible to things like BadUSB. In addition, there are many reasons for running an OS off of a flash drive and many OSes designed for just that reason. Tails or a tails like system, is an excellent way to keep financial information secure. And on any modern hardware out there, Tails or other in memory OSes like Tails provide full performance.

Forgive my ignorance in this: are you sayin these flash drives do not require firmware?

 

[Virgorising]

They have face recognition on the cameras now too. They can pretty much track your location in real time. For the places that don't have cameras, the drones can see you. They can zoom in to something the size of a penny from like 60,000 feet. The sensor is actually a large array of cell phone cameras. I'm guessing there's an actual lens too so it can focus and zoom in/out.

This stuff is what you'd think was only possible in science fiction villain type movies.

I live in Manhattan, but never look up in the sky. I wonder if that is why I have never seen a drone?????? Are they silent? I have no clue. If they made noise and had big Amazon logos....I would surely notice them.:sneaky:

But, right now, I care less about the camera surveillance than I do what I have just learned has been planted in my Crucial SSD. And maybe even my WD Black back up drive. Even wonder about the drivers for my GPU, and if they are in league with this other stuff. To do such as screen captures. I mean that might even be possible.

 

[Virgorising]

I wonder at what level these spy things are added in. Are they added in an actual product, or are they added in right at individual IC level while they are being manufacturered at the die level? If they're added to already manufactured products like hard drives, motherboards etc, I wonder how realistic it would be to start literally building a computer, from scratch, by sourcing parts out at sites like digikey.

The issue is, we need enough people to care about this so that enough brains get together to actually execute such a project and keep it organized. We basically need a hardware version of Linus Torvalds to step up and start designing an architecture from scratch using off the shelf components and make it open source.

I have a feeling this spy stuff is only going to continue to get worse. The government will keep trying to find ways that are harder and harder to detect. Hopefully enough people will step up to fight it somehow.

I like this offering....I like all yr offerings. But, between capitulating and shutting down and learning to make diodes in our newly hypercleaned of dust mites kitchens.....there is the option of organizing pro actively and standing up en mass. Takes work and courage/commitment/passion... but that's the upside of our history.....Canada, the UK as well!

U think they can put spies in drivers? Bet they can.