Is there a spiritual movement like agnosticism but that assumes higher intelligence?

[JMorton6]

I was raised in a regular family (church once a year kinda thing), but allowed to believe whatever I want to believe, so when I discovered the internet as a kid, within a few years I became an atheist.

Subsequently, I spent a good part of a decade walking around and thinking that I know everything because I "know" that there is no god, and thinking that this made me smarter than others who were fooled by the church business.

A lot of this I agree with to this day, i.e. how some (billions of) people seem to think that they know god's name, what he looks like and where he lives, precisely what he wants out of them, precisely what reward they'll receive for compliance, or how they'll be punished for non-compliance.

I think that for a human to claim to know the mind of god is about as silly as for a chimp to claim to know the mind of a human. Actually, if god does exist, the difference between us and him (it?) would probably be trillions of times greater than between us and chimps, so it just goes to show how silly it us for human being to think they know everything.

BUT.

I think that it's equally as silly to claim that you KNOW that there is no god as it is to claim that you KNOW there is one. Seriously, we're ants living on a spec of rock around a tiny star that's one of hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy alone, which in turn is part of hundreds of billions of other galaxies. And we haven't even properly explored and studied the area around that one little star of ours.

Let's face it - we don't know shit.

If tomorrow you or I met with advanced alien intelligence, even one that's only 100 years more advanced than we are, we would have absolutely NO way to tell them apart from god, simply because they'd be able to perform with ease any miracles described in our religious texts, just as we will be able to do with nanotech, etc, in just a few decades.

So like I said, we don't know shit. In the universal sense, we're not even infants yet. We don't know even 1 billionth of what there is to know, of the secrets hidden within our extremely vast universe. And we may, or may never know. So it is silly for us to say we KNOW all there is to know about god, but it is equally silly for us to say that we know for a fact that god doesn't exist. Because we don't know, and cannot prove or disprove any of it, so we need to stop acting like that's not the case, take our egos out of the equation, and admit that at least for the present, we do not know. And that's okay.

What to us is god might be a sort of universal intelligence, and/or an alien intelligence, or any number of things that given the vast size of the universe probably do exist somewhere. It could even be a kid from 100 years from now running The Sims 30 on his iPhone 20. It could. We just don't know. And ironically, from the looks of it, science will be the tool humanity uses to uncover these secrets and discover (if we ever do) the true nature of what people today call god. And it may be every bit as powerful, or even infinitely more powerful, than our ancestors have imagined.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'd like to know if there is a spiritual or intellectual movement similar to agnosticism, but one that leans ever so slightly towards the probability that there is a higher intelligence of some sort, and that one day humanity may make contact with that intelligence. To me, compared to atheism, agnosticism and religiousness, this quasi-agnostical movement would seem like the most informed and most logical path to take. And one that is probably more in tune with reality.

Does a movement like this exist?

 

[BladeVenom]

So just a general theist or deist? American Enlightenment?

 

[manimal]

You could start watching Greys Anatomy

 

[dawp]

paganism

 

[FoBoT]

Does a movement like this exist?

makes me think of
Unitarian Universalist
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/principles/index.shtml

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Why does it need to be a movement? Do you require external validation? Just looking to meet hot chicks that are looking for the same horse shit sophism you are?

 

[soulcougher73]

That is why i never called myself an actual Athiest. To me that takes as strong a stance as a thiest has. Claiming one way or another they have proof when they obviously dont. I stick to Agnostic Athiest myself.

 

[Bazake]

makes me think of
Unitarian Universalist
http://www.uua.org/beliefs/principles/index.shtml

This is one of their seven principles. Me thinks they mean the internet.

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

 

[HendrixFan]

I think that it's equally as silly to claim that you KNOW that there is no god as it is to claim that you KNOW there is one.

Lack of belief is not the same as a belief.

Just like the tooth fairy or the easter bunny, when I say I know they don't exist it is just a round about way of saying there is nothing I have been given that makes me believe they exist.

Belief in a higher power requires faith, by definition. Without faith you will not believe. Asking an atheist to believe in a god is like asking a religious person not to. It isn't an on/off switch. You can't choose one way or the other. As an atheist I can tell people that I believe in a god, but I don't. And me saying it doesn't make it happen. The flip side is that someone who is devout can say they don't believe in a god, but that won't change their views.

You also have to understand that many who claim to be atheist are not really, and they give atheism a bad name. Plenty of them are miserable, hate their lives, and blame god for it. But they turn their hatred of god into a stated disbelief. These "atheists" are usually the ones who go on angry tangents about god when discussing their beliefs. Have you ever seen someone get angry discussing the easter bunny? How can you hate something you don't think is real?

 

[epidemis]

I know a god doesn't exist. Because the concept is a contradiction in terms.

 

[JMorton6]

Why does it need to be a movement? Do you require external validation? Just looking to meet hot chicks that are looking for the same horse shit sophism you are?

Don't be stupid.

I'm just looking for people who are smart enough to realize that they can't prove or disprove the existence of higher intelligence, but given the fact that we haven't even explored a fraction of 1% of the cosmos, it is more than likely that countless beings far more advanced than us exist. To us, many of these beings would appear to be gods, and may for all intents and purposes be called gods, because by our measures they do posess godlike power.

 

[busydude]

If a person says he is Atheist.. he does not mean "there is no god".

Most folks who say they are Atheist.. are actually Agnostic Atheist.

 

[JMorton6]

That is why i never called myself an actual Athiest. To me that takes as strong a stance as a thiest has. Claiming one way or another they have proof when they obviously dont. I stick to Agnostic Athiest myself.

Precisely. Also, we really need to decide what exactly constitutes a god. Because to people in 1850, most of our current technology would equal magical and godlike powers. Likewise, our tech from just 30-40 years would seem like magic in 2012. Wait until we have foglet nanobots that can instantly reshape everything around us (think Holodeck on Star-Trek). And that's just in a few decades. Civilizations hundreds of years ahead of us would to us be indistinguishable from god. They could easily be omnipresent and able to bend the universe to their will. Now how about civilizations that are thousands, or even millions of years ahead of us? Would they be gods if they can completely and absolutely control the universe? Or is god the one who created them? Or maybe god is everything around us - maybe the universe itself is alive. We will not be able to answer many of these questions for hundreds of years, maybe longer, maybe never. But for us to assume, having not even seen 1/1 trillionth of the universe for ourselves, that we KNOW what does and doesn't exist out there? That is the dumbest, most ludicrous and most insane notion I've ever heard. If you think Christians are crazy to be 100% certain that they know god, would you not have to agree that gnostic atheists [fixed] are equally crazy for being 100% certain that there isn't one? Christianity and atheism are both forms of faith - they both claim things that we currently cannot prove or disprove. I think humans have an innate fear of the unknown, so we rush to take sides: "yes he does exist!" or "no he doesn't!" We all need to relax and realize that in universal terms, we're toddlers, so it's ok to not know stuff yet. As a species, we will get there someday. For now, we can just agree that we don't know the answer and stop showing our beliefs down each others' throats.

 

[JMorton6]

If a person says he is Atheist.. he does not mean "there is no god".

Most folks who say they are Atheist.. are actually Agnostic Atheist.

Oh, interesting. I thought all atheists claimed knowledge that there is no god.

 

[epidemis]

You can sum it up like this: Atheist don't give a flying fuck about it

 

[pelov]

If a person says he is Atheist.. he does not mean "there is no god".

Most folks who say they are Atheist.. are actually Agnostic Atheist.

This. Agnostic and Atheist are just two sides of the same coin. People get hung up about the two terms without actually understanding what they really mean.

OP, who cares what school of metaphysical-philosophical thought you would closest ascribe to? Does it really matter? Looking to build a place of non-worship?

 

[busydude]

Oh, interesting. I thought all atheists claimed knowledge that there is no god.

We do not claim that there is absolutely no god. We believe that the onus is on religious folks to bring forth.. proof of his existence.

Science does not believe in absolutes.

 

[AFurryReptile]

Don't be stupid.

I'm just looking for people who are smart enough to realize that they can't prove or disprove the existence of higher intelligence, but given the fact that we haven't even explored a fraction of 1% of the cosmos, it is more than likely that countless beings far more advanced than us exist. To us, many of these beings would appear to be gods, and may for all intents and purposes be called gods, because by our measures they do posess godlike power.

You can't disprove a lot of things, but it doesn't make them a plausible explanation.

I mentioned this the other day: You can't disprove an invisible flying spaghetti monster hovering above my shoulder, because you can't see it. That doesn't make it 50/50 percent chance that it could, or could not exist.

 

[JMorton6]

This. Agnostic and Atheist are just two sides of the same coin. People get hung up about the two terms without actually understanding what they really mean.

OP, who cares what school of metaphysical-philosophical thought you would closest ascribe to? Does it really matter? Looking to build a place of non-worship?

Hahah, place of non-worship. Nice. Just want like-minded people to talk to, same as everybody else. I've already learned a lot just from this thread.

 

[JMorton6]

If a person says he is Atheist.. he does not mean "there is no god".

Most folks who say they are Atheist.. are actually Agnostic Atheist.

So I guess I'm a gnostic theist... but I don't know if god is "God," alien intelligence, some sort of universal power, etc. I think that we probably have absolutely (or nearly absolutely) no idea of what god is, as we have no frame of reference to compare to. It's like trying to explain quantum physics to a 3-year-old. He might get the slightest bit of a vague and general idea, but in reality he has noooooo idea what you're talking about.

 

[AreaCode707]

Bahai is the answer to your question.

 

[AFurryReptile]

If a person says he is Atheist.. he does not mean "there is no god".

Most folks who say they are Atheist.. are actually Agnostic Atheist.

There's a lot of debate on if this chart is the best way to describe this. You can read more over at Reddit here.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is a different way of looking at all this, in my opinion, the notion that God is not an alien being but an alien state, a conscious awakening that causes certainty.

Here God is not a concept or idea you believe or don't, but a state of awareness you know by your own being.

This is the knowledge the mystic attains, sometimes by accident, sometimes by technique, the collapse of duality and the attainment of unity, a state that happens when the ego dies for whatever reason and the doors of the heart fly open from which the light of God pours out. To the mystic or whatever other word you wish to pick, the Lover and the Beloved are one. I am I, the alpha and the omega. There is no doubt and no certainty, no need for either. There is only Love.

It is because this state is innate, and the birth right of all human beings, the notion that there is a God will never disappear. We will always see God out there somewhere because he's within. He is the being who is when you are.

 

[AFurryReptile]

There is a different way of looking at all this, in my opinion, the notion that God is not an alien being but an alien state, a conscious awakening that causes certainty.

Here God is not a concept or idea you believe or don't, but a state of awareness you know by your own being.

This is the knowledge the mystic attains, sometimes by accident, sometimes by technique, the collapse of duality and the attainment of unity, a state that happens when the ego dies for whatever reason and the doors of the heart fly open from which the light of God pours out. To the mystic or whatever other word you wish to pick, the Lover and the Beloved are one. I am I, the alpha and the omega. There is no doubt and no certainty, no need for either. There is only Love.

It is because this state is innate, and the birth right of all human beings, the notion that there is a God will never disappear. We will always see God out there somewhere because he's within. He is the being who is when you are.

This is all very philosophical, but I don't buy it. My thought is that gods and spirituality were used by early civilizations to explain existence. Thousands of years ago, when people were still sheparding their livestock around, and had no concept of math and science, the thought of the unknown was scary, thus explanations needed to be made. Mental illness was attributed to demons, complexity to creation, and emotions to a soul. However, early civilizations perceptions of their world was very small, which is why we ended up with the thousands of religions and perceptions of a "soul" that persist today.

With science, we now know that we share a common bond with every known animal in existence. You can look at DNA evidence to prove just how similar to other animals we are. We know how chemical reactions affect our brains in spiritual ways; hell, we can pump a man full of estrogen and turn him into a woman! We can't explain how we got here, yet, but that is the great thing about science; nothing is considered "fact", and everything is open to better theories. Until the world puts a priority on science and stops thinking about ourselves as something supernatural, we are never going to progress.

I, for one, think that if I had not been indoctrinated as a child, I would have gone into science just after high school. At this point in my life it is too late to consider the notion; just think about how many Einsteins we suppress by forcing religion upon them at an early age?

 

[busydude]

There's a lot of debate on if this chart is the best way to describe this. You can read more over at Reddit here.

I frequent reddit for some funny images/videos. I cannot make myself read through all the stuff being posted there; it is too fast and the posts that get most upvotes are generally humorous.. which has little to do with the thread.

/end rant.