Is there a reason you Atheists feel the need to bash Christianity constantly? ***THREAD STILL ON TOPIC!!!***

[DougK62]

after reading your statement and my statement again, i am shocked

i dont want to make this sound like the sunday school answer, but 99% of the time i do the "i may be wrong, they may be right, thats cool" but in that 1 particular instance, i let something slip that came off entirely wrong. it may have been implied by what i wrote, but my personal feelings on the issue did not place me above them. yes, thats how it reads, and no, i wont be able to convince you otherwise, but my personal feelings were not reflected in that statement. i only meant to comment on that one specific belief they have about who gets into heaven. but, i edited it out, as i was wrong, so i dont have a leg to stand on here.

Well regardless, you did write it which meant that you were thinking it. So it IS a reflection of you. It's good that you can recognize it though.

Just something to think about. It's difficult to put other beliefs on the same level as your own when you believe so strongly that you're right. A problem that an agnostic like me thankfully doesn't have

Good luck with your faith

Cheers to difference - if we all thought the same life would suck :beer: :wine:

 

[Kerouactivist]

I found this quote searching around and I think it makes an interesting applicable point...

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts

another one

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. ~Frank Lloyd Wright

More good ones gottem from here

 

[Palek]

Originally posted by: DougK62In essence, you're saying that "no one knows the real truth but us Christians and you are wrong". You can disagree all you want, but that's how it reads.

To come at the topic from reverse, a Christian that does NOT put themselves on a pedestal would say "no one knows the real truth, but I think I've found it - the JWs think they've found it too - that's cool."

They'll pronounce other faiths wrong except for Christianity without knowing a thing about them - another big peeve of the atheists/agnostics on this board.

The thing is, THAT is one of the fundamental truths of our faith. We believe that the God of the Bible, David, etc. is the one and true God. It would be a perversion of our faith to say that other gods could also exist and other religions could be right as well. This is the real complication about religion/faith and something you cannot just label as supremist thinking. Religion is very different from race, gender or nationality.

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: DougK62

after reading your statement and my statement again, i am shocked

i dont want to make this sound like the sunday school answer, but 99% of the time i do the "i may be wrong, they may be right, thats cool" but in that 1 particular instance, i let something slip that came off entirely wrong. it may have been implied by what i wrote, but my personal feelings on the issue did not place me above them. yes, thats how it reads, and no, i wont be able to convince you otherwise, but my personal feelings were not reflected in that statement. i only meant to comment on that one specific belief they have about who gets into heaven. but, i edited it out, as i was wrong, so i dont have a leg to stand on here.

Well regardless, you did write it which meant that you were thinking it. So it IS a reflection of you. It's good that you can recognize it though.

Just something to think about. It's difficult to put other beliefs on the same level as your own when you believe so strongly that you're right. A problem that an agnostic like me thankfully doesn't have

Good luck with your faith

Cheers to difference - if we all thought the same life would suck :beer: :wine:

well said.

if you dont mind, what would be the real world difference between an agnositc and an atheist? i have never truly understood both viewpoints.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Palek

Originally posted by: DougK62In essence, you're saying that "no one knows the real truth but us Christians and you are wrong". You can disagree all you want, but that's how it reads.

To come at the topic from reverse, a Christian that does NOT put themselves on a pedestal would say "no one knows the real truth, but I think I've found it - the JWs think they've found it too - that's cool."

They'll pronounce other faiths wrong except for Christianity without knowing a thing about them - another big peeve of the atheists/agnostics on this board.

The thing is, THAT is one of the fundamental truths of our faith. We believe that the God of the Bible, David, etc. is the one and true God. It would be a perversion of our faith to say that other gods could also exist and other religions could be right as well. This is the real complication about religion/faith and something you cannot just label as supremist thinking. Religion is very different from race, gender or nationality.

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

palek, i think you explained why my statement sucked and shouldnt have been said better than i ever could have and you probably didnt even mean to. i also think dougk62 realizes the differences, but doesnt realize i honestly dont think i am better than anyone else. maybe this post can help clarify that. however, dougk62 was right and called me out on it. what can i say? i'm human, i made a mistake.

 

[shuan24]

Agnostic = someone who does not discredit the possibility of a God(s) nor does he believe that it exists. Instead, he chooses to believe that until one day the truth is actually proved, then will he believe.

Atheist = someone who absolutely believes that there is/are no God(s) and that life was created from pure science.

My .02.

I really think a majority of so called Atheists are really agnostic.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: shuan24
Agnostic = someone who does not discredit the possibility of a God(s) nor does he believe that it exists. Instead, he chooses to believe that until one day the truth is actually proved, then will he believe.

Atheist = someone who absolutely believes that there is/are no God(s) and that life was created from pure science.

My .02.

I really think a majority of so called Atheists are really agnostic.

so agnostics dont believe because they have no physical proof, but dont totally dismiss the idea. is that what you are saying? if so, that makes much more sense now, and yes i would agree - by that definition, i would say most people are agnostic, not atheist.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Palek

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

You ARE implying your superiority - you just can't see it for whatever reason. Denying the faith (something that can't be proven) of others places yourself on a plateau above the people that don't "know". You may not think so, but it clearly does when seen by an "outsider".

Tolerating the faiths of others does NOT require you to lose yours. In fact, it should make a spiritual person even stronger.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: Palek

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

You ARE implying your superiority - you just can't see it for whatever reason. Denying the faith (something that can't be proven) of others places yourself on a plateau above the people that don't "know". You may not think so, but it clearly does when seen by an "outsider".

Tolerating the faiths of others does NOT require you to lose yours. In fact, it should make a spiritual person even stronger.

i think this is an extremely complicated standpoint. both points are valid, but i cant seem to understand why it is perceived as superiority. 100% honesty here...when i say something like palek said, there is not an ill thought in my mind about ANYONE who is not christian. to me, it is impossible to understand why you think we put ourselves on a plateau, but when i read your posts, you arent being sarcastic, so it really must read that way to you. this is where i get confused. usually if you are serious and explain, the other person understands unless they are a moron. dougk62, you however are not a moron but still dont understand which leads me to believe that it is way more complicated than i have ever realized and this is no right or wrong discussion.

all i can say about this is i dont think i am superior in any way shape or form but i cant seem to express that clearly. i am interested in the responses of others.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: shuan24
Agnostic = someone who does not discredit the possibility of a God(s) nor does he believe that it exists. Instead, he chooses to believe that until one day the truth is actually proved, then will he believe.

Atheist = someone who absolutely believes that there is/are no God(s) and that life was created from pure science.

My .02.

I really think a majority of so called Atheists are really agnostic.

so agnostics dont believe because they have no physical proof, but dont totally dismiss the idea. is that what you are saying? if so, that makes much more sense now, and yes i would agree - by that definition, i would say most people are agnostic, not atheist.

Those definitions are not bad. I want to make a correction to it - an agnostic CAN believe or disbelieve in a god or higher power - they just keep it open that they may be wrong.

You got it, MrCodeDude.

 

[TuxDave]

Replying to ^^^^ errr.... I mean two posts up

I know there's no ill will in that but I guess what is taken as common phrases can be seen as derogatory. For instance... claiming that your God is the 'True God'. I think 'True' is the bad word of the day as it implies that every other belief is 'Fake'. It's most likely true that you do believe that all other Gods are 'Fake', but it can be taken as impolite if brought out like that.

If I say "Engineering is the only REAL major"... I'm sure all other majors will beat my ass.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: shuan24
Agnostic = someone who does not discredit the possibility of a God(s) nor does he believe that it exists. Instead, he chooses to believe that until one day the truth is actually proved, then will he believe.

Atheist = someone who absolutely believes that there is/are no God(s) and that life was created from pure science.

My .02.

I really think a majority of so called Atheists are really agnostic.

so agnostics dont believe because they have no physical proof, but dont totally dismiss the idea. is that what you are saying? if so, that makes much more sense now, and yes i would agree - by that definition, i would say most people are agnostic, not atheist.

Those definitions are not bad. I want to make a correction to it - an agnostic CAN believe or disbelieve in a god or higher power - they just keep it open that they may be wrong.

You got it, MrCodeDude.

I think you both are right, I think everybody has their own personal definition for agnostics. I also agree with dougk62, because I think anytime someone says that their god is the "true" god, that does imply that somebody elses god is wrong because it is not the "true" god, thus concluding that the person who believes in the "true" god is inheritantly higher than someone who believes in a "false" god. I dont think someone can make a statement regarding their god without discrediting someone else's.

My .02.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Replying to ^^^^ errr.... I mean two posts up

I know there's no ill will in that but I guess what is taken as common phrases can be seen as derogatory. For instance... claiming that your God is the 'True God'. I think 'True' is the bad word of the day as it implies that every other belief is 'Fake'. It's most likely true that you do believe that all other Gods are 'Fake', but it can be taken as impolite if brought out like that.

If I say "Engineering is the only REAL major"... I'm sure all other majors will beat my ass.

i still have a hard time with the whole superiority thing. although, i do understand what you are saying and it makes good sense.

what other gods to religions have? i understand many of the viewpoints of muslims for example, but what do they worship in terms of a god? can it not be the same god christians worship - only in a different way? in that sense, it is still the 1 true god, we just have very different perceptions of his words. muslim isnt a good comparison, it was just an example. if you can make something fit in there that would relate, it may help me to understand a bit more.

edit: i was trying to elaborate on the word "true" in this last statement

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: Palek

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

You ARE implying your superiority - you just can't see it for whatever reason. Denying the faith (something that can't be proven) of others places yourself on a plateau above the people that don't "know". You may not think so, but it clearly does when seen by an "outsider".

Tolerating the faiths of others does NOT require you to lose yours. In fact, it should make a spiritual person even stronger.

i think this is an extremely complicated standpoint. both points are valid, but i cant seem to understand why it is perceived as superiority. 100% honesty here...when i say something like palek said, there is not an ill thought in my mind about ANYONE who is not christian. to me, it is impossible to understand why you think we put ourselves on a plateau, but when i read your posts, you arent being sarcastic, so it really must read that way to you. this is where i get confused. usually if you are serious and explain, the other person understands unless they are a moron. dougk62, you however are not a moron but still dont understand which leads me to believe that it is way more complicated than i have ever realized and this is no right or wrong discussion.

all i can say about this is i dont think i am superior in any way shape or form but i cant seem to express that clearly. i am interested in the responses of others.

I consider myself an open third party in these things. I'm completely open to learning and experiencing any religion. I know it's hard for you to see the pedestal. It's hard for most religious people. But you CAN understand my posts - so that's a start.

You'll probably never see the religious pedestal like an outsider does. Hence the bajillion religious flamefests on ATOT every day

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Replying to ^^^^ errr.... I mean two posts up

I know there's no ill will in that but I guess what is taken as common phrases can be seen as derogatory. For instance... claiming that your God is the 'True God'. I think 'True' is the bad word of the day as it implies that every other belief is 'Fake'. It's most likely true that you do believe that all other Gods are 'Fake', but it can be taken as impolite if brought out like that.

If I say "Engineering is the only REAL major"... I'm sure all other majors will beat my ass.

i still have a hard time with the whole superiority thing. although, i do understand what you are saying and it makes good sense.

what other gods to religions have? i understand many of the viewpoints of muslims for example, but what do they worship in terms of a god? can it not be the same god christians worship - only in a different way? in that sense, it is still the 1 true god, we just have very different perceptions of his words. muslim isnt a good comparison, it was just an example. if you can make something fit in there that would relate, it may help me to understand a bit more.

Interesting you say that, because why would someone have the need to claim that their god is the "true" god?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Replying to ^^^^ errr.... I mean two posts up

I know there's no ill will in that but I guess what is taken as common phrases can be seen as derogatory. For instance... claiming that your God is the 'True God'. I think 'True' is the bad word of the day as it implies that every other belief is 'Fake'. It's most likely true that you do believe that all other Gods are 'Fake', but it can be taken as impolite if brought out like that.

If I say "Engineering is the only REAL major"... I'm sure all other majors will beat my ass.

i still have a hard time with the whole superiority thing. although, i do understand what you are saying and it makes good sense.

what other gods to religions have? i understand many of the viewpoints of muslims for example, but what do they worship in terms of a god? can it not be the same god christians worship - only in a different way? in that sense, it is still the 1 true god, we just have very different perceptions of his words. muslim isnt a good comparison, it was just an example. if you can make something fit in there that would relate, it may help me to understand a bit more.

<--- is a very ill informed person of other religions. I'm only slightly knowledgable in Christianity and Agnostics. I actually haven't met one who's an Atheist.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Replying to ^^^^ errr.... I mean two posts up

I know there's no ill will in that but I guess what is taken as common phrases can be seen as derogatory. For instance... claiming that your God is the 'True God'. I think 'True' is the bad word of the day as it implies that every other belief is 'Fake'. It's most likely true that you do believe that all other Gods are 'Fake', but it can be taken as impolite if brought out like that.

If I say "Engineering is the only REAL major"... I'm sure all other majors will beat my ass.

i still have a hard time with the whole superiority thing. although, i do understand what you are saying and it makes good sense.

what other gods to religions have? i understand many of the viewpoints of muslims for example, but what do they worship in terms of a god? can it not be the same god christians worship - only in a different way? in that sense, it is still the 1 true god, we just have very different perceptions of his words. muslim isnt a good comparison, it was just an example. if you can make something fit in there that would relate, it may help me to understand a bit more.

Interesting you say that, because why would someone have the need to claim that their god is the "true" god?

i dont quite understand what you mean. i dont even understand what i am asking, i just want to know what the other options are.

edit: oh i get it. i was just elaborating on what someone pointed out a few posts before mine about the word "true"

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: Palek

Originally posted by: DougK62In essence, you're saying that "no one knows the real truth but us Christians and you are wrong". You can disagree all you want, but that's how it reads.

To come at the topic from reverse, a Christian that does NOT put themselves on a pedestal would say "no one knows the real truth, but I think I've found it - the JWs think they've found it too - that's cool."

They'll pronounce other faiths wrong except for Christianity without knowing a thing about them - another big peeve of the atheists/agnostics on this board.

The thing is, THAT is one of the fundamental truths of our faith. We believe that the God of the Bible, David, etc. is the one and true God. It would be a perversion of our faith to say that other gods could also exist and other religions could be right as well. This is the real complication about religion/faith and something you cannot just label as supremist thinking. Religion is very different from race, gender or nationality.

What you also have to understand is when I say that I believe my God is the only true God, I in no way imply that therefore I am a superior human being. I am simply saying what I am saying - that God is the only true god. I do not think that my beliefs elevate me above others. It is God whom I elevate above all else. Although you might find it hard to see the difference, there is a major one. I take pride in one thing and one thing only: my God. Not my supreme understanding, my great skills of discernment or my ability to find the truth - none of which I possess, so I have no bragging rights. I have found the truth only by God's grace.

Ok...Back to the drawing board: read the quote in bold.
Now, you may or may not agree with him, correct?
What exact logical choices do you have?:
A. Agree with him, yes his God is the true god, which is the same as my God, which is the true God.
B. Disagree with him, no his God is not the true god, for my God is the true god.
C. Disagree with him, no his God is not the true god, for there are no gods.

Now, I beleive that dougk62 and as well as I are somewhere in the B and C category, while you are in the A category, correct?

Now if you put yourself in our shoes, you should see that someone making a claim that their god is the "true" god, that implies that our god (or the absence of) is false or fake. And by that implication, that means that he is putting his God higher than our god, which directly relates putting his religion above ours.
Get the point?

 

[MystikMango]

Back to the Agnostic and Atheist thing, I know several of both, and most of the Atheist don't like Agnostics either. As I once heard, "Get off the fence. You either beilieve in a super-uber all-knowing being that created everything, or you don't."

 

[TuxDave]

In the end, I can still only see two solutions to this. We can take the politically correct route and try to be a little more careful about what we say. Or we can do the 'get over it' route by saying we shouldn't be insulted by everything someone says. I usually take the PC route but eh... time change.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
In the end, I can still only see two solutions to this. We can take the politically correct route and try to be a little more careful about what we say. Or we can do the 'get over it' route by saying we shouldn't be insulted by everything someone says. I usually take the PC route but eh... time change.

i think everyone involved in this is past that by now. this has turned into an incredible disscusion that will hopefully, but more than likely not, set a precedent. PC police dont need to get involved necessarily

 

[GoingUp]

Yea I put HC and ZV into orbit earlier this year when I posted my essay about the immorality of religious conversion attempts.

 

[MystikMango]

I agree, no need to pull the PC emergency cord now.

You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe... after we die, we'll find out who was right and worng, but by then it won't matter.

:beer: to all.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: MystikMango
I agree, no need to pull the PC emergency cord now.

You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe... after we die, we'll find out who was right and worng, but by then it won't matter.

:beer: to all.

/agree :beer:

 

[MrDudeMan]

damn it...first DP in a while