Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

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naddicott

Senior member
Jul 3, 2002
793
0
76
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Go figure, I actually post Obama's stated fiscal policies and address the OP over an entire page of posts ago and BlackAngus and Cad ignore it.
I think the OP and some of the other posters in this thread consider the thread title to be a rhetorical question and have no interest in actually discussing the topic. They certainly aren't going to take comfort from any words coming directly from the Obama camp.

As far as Obama's overall outlook on the government and it's appropriate scope, I think the philosophy he laid out in his 2nd book is sincere. To paraphrase, he argues that there are functions that the government is inherently well suited for, and others where government simply isn't the best tool for the job. While he has some pre-conceptions as to which areas are suited to the government (esp. education, infrastructure, and long-term basic scientific research), he doesn't feel that any individual program is sacrosanct to the point where it should be immune from performance metrics. He believes that programs that aren't accomplishing their stated purpose should be targeted for reform, replacement, or removal. He believes that greater transparency from government will make it harder to hide bad earmarks from the media and the voters.

Do I actually expect Obama to demonstrate fiscal discipline if he's elected? Too soon to tell. I consider the test to be what he does if/when the economy picks up. I can tolerate targetted deficit spending during a downturn, especially if it's contributing to education/infrastructure or other high yield investments. If the economy is healthy and growing, however, government really needs to figure out how to run a balanced budget, and ideally pay down some debt with surplus so a the % of the annual budget that simply goes to debt interest payments can start to decrease. That sort of discipline will depend on Obama as well as the people he surrounds himself with and congress.

What I can't stomach is the implication that the theory behind supply-side economics, given 20 years of post Reagan Republican presidents and their tax cuts, has any empirical evidence showing "trickle-down" out-performs government dollars invested in education/infrastructure/research. As best I can tell, the recipients of Bush's tax breaks simply ship their production overseas and speculate in Ponzi real-estate debt, while allowing America's youth to fall behind the curve (set by countries who do invest in science and education), becoming a 3rd tier workforce, and strangling long-ranging basic research because not enough private investors can stomach funding a project that doesn't yield marketable results within the next 4 fiscal quarters.

John McCain's support of the Bush Tax Cuts damns him in my eyes not only for the lack of fiscal responsibility, but because he's still clinging to an economic theory that sounded nice when a handsome Californian actor was selling it, but which has utterly failed our country in practice over 20 years of Republican rule. I suppose I could start a thread saying "how many of our country's problems will the Bush/McCain tax cuts solve?", but it would be a reverse of the OP's approach, in that to me, that's a rhetorical question.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Go figure, I actually post Obama's stated fiscal policies and address the OP over an entire page of posts ago and BlackAngus and Cad ignore it.

Of course they did. This thread is a purpose-made TROLL. The OP (and Obama's fiscal policies) has been addressed over and over and over again. They ignore those so they can keep feigning their phony rhetoric on how "this thread isn't about the Republicans."

Their desperation is as pathetic as their moral bankruptcy is glaring.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1

you wanna put a $100 pay pal bet on this wise ass? I will agree to provide a link where I have lambasted Bush for his fiscal irresponsibility if you agree to paypal me $100 if I do.

Ask me if I give a shit. You said my post was just bashing your Traitor In Chief and McSame and unresponsive to the OP. I replied to refute your bullshit because you're more intent on negating the truth than owning up to it.

Game on? Or fucking trolling again? youre as bad as Dave.

:lips: my (_!_).
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: mshan
As for McCain, what leverage does he have against the entrenched special interests, or even his own Republican Party, to be nothing more than a PUPPET PRESIDENT?

whatever McCain is going to want to do, he's going to be checked by a democratic congress that's going to increase their majorities in 2008, whereas Obama is going to have a cadre of yes-men to rubber stamp whatever random idea he comes up with.

as it is, he's taken risky positions at odds with the GOP core and compromised to get things done far more often than Obama.

By word, yes. When it comes to actual voting, no.

Johnny's only a "Maverick" Republican when his vote would not matter either way.

Text
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: blackangst1

you wanna put a $100 pay pal bet on this wise ass? I will agree to provide a link where I have lambasted Bush for his fiscal irresponsibility if you agree to paypal me $100 if I do.

Ask me if I give a shit. You said my post was just bashing your Traitor In Chief and McSame and unresponsive to the OP. I replied to refute your bullshit because you're more intent on negating the truth than owning up to it.

Game on? Or fucking trolling again? youre as bad as Dave.

:lips: my (_!_).

Yeah just as I thought. Making accusations of an idea or a quote you fabricated.

Typical.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Dari
This whole thread is a sad commentary on the Republican Party.

Except this thread is about Obama and his outrageous spending promises...

And someone like you complains about it. It's a sad joke. I don't remember you starting a single thread on Bush's spending in the past 8 years.

And just wtf does that matter? I think the sad joke here is nobody can question Obama's proposals because Bush was spending like a sailor. I think questioning Obama is even more important given the latest example of what a president can do with a rubberstamp congress like the one Obama will have if he wins.

Bush wasn't the only one. Republican Presidents have a habit of skyrocketing the deficit and we don't here a peep from fellow Republicans until a Democrat comes to power. Pathetic.


And so what of it?

Which topics are we now allowed to discuss if not his plans to fix these percieved issues?
We cant talk about his moral advisor, cant talk about his proposed spending plans to fix issues, cant talk about his wife, cant talk about his foreign policy plans.

If we arent allowed to talk about a potential president's policies then that is more pathetic than some people being hypocrites.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Dari
This whole thread is a sad commentary on the Republican Party.

Except this thread is about Obama and his outrageous spending promises...

And someone like you complains about it. It's a sad joke. I don't remember you starting a single thread on Bush's spending in the past 8 years.

And just wtf does that matter? I think the sad joke here is nobody can question Obama's proposals because Bush was spending like a sailor. I think questioning Obama is even more important given the latest example of what a president can do with a rubberstamp congress like the one Obama will have if he wins.

Bush wasn't the only one. Republican Presidents have a habit of skyrocketing the deficit and we don't here a peep from fellow Republicans until a Democrat comes to power. Pathetic.


And so what of it?

Which topics are we now allowed to discuss if not his plans to fix these percieved issues?
We cant talk about his moral advisor, cant talk about his proposed spending plans to fix issues, cant talk about his wife, cant talk about his foreign policy plans.

If we arent allowed to talk about a potential president's policies then that is more pathetic than some people being hypocrites.

I hadn't noticed that anyone has been kept from discussing those issues when it seems like 3-4 threads are started each day on them.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

Not that it needs to be said at this point, but the Republicans are spending a lot of money right now without fixing anything. Fixing something would at least be progress.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Dari
This whole thread is a sad commentary on the Republican Party.

Except this thread is about Obama and his outrageous spending promises...

And someone like you complains about it. It's a sad joke. I don't remember you starting a single thread on Bush's spending in the past 8 years.

And just wtf does that matter? I think the sad joke here is nobody can question Obama's proposals because Bush was spending like a sailor. I think questioning Obama is even more important given the latest example of what a president can do with a rubberstamp congress like the one Obama will have if he wins.

Bush wasn't the only one. Republican Presidents have a habit of skyrocketing the deficit and we don't here a peep from fellow Republicans until a Democrat comes to power. Pathetic.


And so what of it?

Which topics are we now allowed to discuss if not his plans to fix these percieved issues?
We cant talk about his moral advisor, cant talk about his proposed spending plans to fix issues, cant talk about his wife, cant talk about his foreign policy plans.

If we arent allowed to talk about a potential president's policies then that is more pathetic than some people being hypocrites.

You can say whatever you want, but your words ring hollow. If you can't clean up your own house, who the fuck are you to complain about others'?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: blackangst1

you wanna put a $100 pay pal bet on this wise ass? I will agree to provide a link where I have lambasted Bush for his fiscal irresponsibility if you agree to paypal me $100 if I do.

Ask me if I give a shit. You said my post was just bashing your Traitor In Chief and McSame and unresponsive to the OP. I replied to refute your bullshit because you're more intent on negating the truth than owning up to it.

Game on? Or fucking trolling again? youre as bad as Dave.

:lips: my (_!_).

Yeah just as I thought. Making accusations of an idea or a quote you fabricated.

Typical.

Nice selective quoting. I replied directly to you in my post immediately preceding the one you quoted. I said:

The OP's Topic Summary includes the pejorative label, "Tax and Spend Liberal," makes my entire post on topic and responsive.

1. My first paragraph raises the legitimate question of where any "Tax and Spend Liberal" would find the money to "spend" or income or other revenue source to tax because your Tax and Spend Traitor In Chief has already squandered us into trillions of dollard of debt our great great grandchildren will still be paying long after we're gone from this planet.

2. My second paragraph correctly points out that he is definitely not a "liberal," but he has definitely outspent and out squandered U.S. taxpayers' money on his war of lies and in supporting his war profiteering friends, and McSame is promising to continue the same ridiculous march toward national bankruptcy with the same immoral war and the same disaterous fiscal policies.

I don't see you refuting any of that. Maybe it's because reality means you can't get there from here. :p

That last sentence still stands. I have no idea what you're referring to when you say I "fabricated" a quote. PJ's OP specifically asks if Obama is a "Tax and Spend Liberal," and you haven't challenged the truth of anything I said in my post.

Therefore, the final statement in the post you quoted still stands, as well. :lips: my (_!_).
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

Not that it needs to be said at this point, but the Republicans are spending a lot of money right now without fixing anything. Fixing something would at least be progress.

Agree 100%
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

Not that it needs to be said at this point, but the Republicans are spending a lot of money right now without fixing anything. Fixing something would at least be progress.

Agree 100%

Then act it instead of joining PJ and CAD on the Pubs-do-no-wrong bandwagon. Because what Bober just said here has already been said a few dozen in this thread, and more than once by me with an asshat reply to it by you.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Ha, this was predictable. I wonder if the OP knows he's a running gag.

I think Evan Lieb has exactly hit the nail on the head. On one hand, the OP, Non Prof John, given past results, should know that the argument based on image over substance will not fly on P&N when the argument is inevitably
turned into an argument back on the past GWB GOP record of substance. Its going to turn into a net GOP loss every time based on logic.

So I Basically wonder if people like PJ are simply insane, totally aping the very definition of insanity, thinking more of the same failed behavior that got the GOP into the mess its in now, will suddenly have better results. When in fact,
PJ is a drowning man, grasping at any straw, that cannot keep his credibility afloat.

But while there is life, there is hope, only the election of 11/4/2008 will prove that final gasp of Non Prof John.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

Not that it needs to be said at this point, but the Republicans are spending a lot of money right now without fixing anything. Fixing something would at least be progress.

Agree 100%

Then act it instead of joining PJ and CAD on the Pubs-do-no-wrong bandwagon. Because what Bober just said here has already been said a few dozen in this thread, and more than once by me with an asshat reply to it by you.

Because the thread isnt about Repubs ya dimwit. Oh and show me where I even hinted that GOP can do no wrong and I'll paypal YOU $100. JHC pay attention and quit putting words in my mouth.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Ha, this was predictable. I wonder if the OP knows he's a running gag.

I think Evan Lieb has exactly hit the nail on the head. On one hand, the OP, Non Prof John, given past results, should know that the argument based on image over substance will not fly on P&N when the argument is inevitably
turned into an argument back on the past GWB GOP record of substance. Its going to turn into a net GOP loss every time based on logic.

So I Basically wonder if people like PJ are simply insane, totally aping the very definition of insanity, thinking more of the same failed behavior that got the GOP into the mess its in now, will suddenly have better results. When in fact,
PJ is a drowning man, grasping at any straw, that cannot keep his credibility afloat.

But while there is life, there is hope, only the election of 11/4/2008 will prove that final gasp of Non Prof John.

Funny. Thats what so many of you asshats said right before the last Congressional election :laugh:
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Lemon law

But while there is life, there is hope, only the election of 11/4/2008 will prove that final gasp of Non Prof John.

Funny. Thats what so many of you asshats said right before the last Congressional election :laugh:

Funny how that election prove those of us who said so were right, and the coming election will hand you more well deserved thrashings, not that you or PJ has the common sense to know when you've been riding the biggest losers in the history of the planet... or that it's you and your right wing tinfoil hatted wingnut buddies are the asshats. :laugh:
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
So are ANY of the Obama-haters going to address the Obama fiscal policy positions I posted? Anyone? Bueller? PJ? Or are you content merely slinging "tax and spend liberal" barbs and then running off?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
This thread is a gem. Can't defend his spending proposals so you call the poster stupid or a hypocrite.

;)

We did defend them multiple times to no avail. You guys didn't want a discussion you wanted to fear monger. Try posting something of substance?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
If I had any idea what you meant to say Harv I would try and reply to it.

I think youre trying to say...those who said so about (something not sure what) were right. Well, OK. Something about riding the biggest losers in the history of the planet...not sure what that means. Im sure it was an inferrance of a supposed support of Bush? And that maybe I was riding some kind of support train for him? If thats true, link where I have this undying love for Bush please and I'll paypal you $100. Otherwise shut the fuck up. Ive criticized Bush as much as support. Wanna put a wager on it?

But of course, you cant. All you can do is troll.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
This thread is a gem. Can't defend his spending proposals so you call the poster stupid or a hypocrite.

;)

We did defend them multiple times to no avail. You guys didn't want a discussion you wanted to fear monger. Try posting something of substance?

So when you accuse the Republicans of something the Dems are guilty of we can call you a hypocrite also?

I'll remember that.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
This thread is a gem. Can't defend his spending proposals so you call the poster stupid or a hypocrite.

;)

Dave? Is that you?

:roll:


Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So are ANY of the Obama-haters going to address the Obama fiscal policy positions I posted? Anyone? Bueller? PJ? Or are you content merely slinging "tax and spend liberal" barbs and then running off?

Of course they're not going to acknowledge that the OP's argument was already tackled pages ago.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
This thread is a gem. Can't defend his spending proposals so you call the poster stupid or a hypocrite.

;)

We did defend them multiple times to no avail. You guys didn't want a discussion you wanted to fear monger. Try posting something of substance?

So when you accuse the Republicans of something the Dems are guilty of we can call you a hypocrite also?

I'll remember that.

Are you drunk?

The OP's argument was address in the first 3 pages of this thread.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
This thread is a gem. Can't defend his spending proposals so you call the poster stupid or a hypocrite.

;)

We did defend them multiple times to no avail. You guys didn't want a discussion you wanted to fear monger. Try posting something of substance?

So when you accuse the Republicans of something the Dems are guilty of we can call you a hypocrite also?

I'll remember that.

Sorry, the budget was balanced the last time a Democrat was President. And sure, you could argue that was because of the economic boom at the time, but we had one of those during Bush's 2 terms as well, yet he still grew the debt faster than FDR did during the Great Depression.

Now, are you going to argue facts, or are you going to keep joining the trolls in ignoring them and play little straw men games?