Is there a point to getting certs?

[dowxp]

along with a degree, is there a point to a CCNA or MSCD (sp)? A+ ?


what is good to get rather... than to waste money on the useless ones. i guess the overall story

 

[StageLeft]

Yes. If you're unemployed looking for work that time is well spent getting certs and shows productivity on your resume. I did the same last year getting several while I was on my ass.

Certs DO help.

 

[dakels]

YES! Big difference in not only on paper (for job hunting) but on the job knowledge.
The big certifications (like CCNA, MCSE) are a well respected by companies as proof of at least some functional knowledge in your field. These certifications are not easy and usually require not only book knowledge of the given subject, but also real world application of that knowledge.

I have to cut this short so in summary: Certs = better salary, and more practical knowledge to help you on the job.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: dakels
YES! Big difference in not only on paper (for job hunting) but on the job knowledge.
The big certifications (like CCNA, MCSE) are a well respected by companies as proof of at least some functional knowledge in your field. These certifications are not easy and usually require not only book knowledge of the given subject, but also real world application of that knowledge.

I have to cut this short so in summary: Certs = better salary, and more practical knowledge to help you on the job.

You sound like a salesman from Smart Certify Direct. You think the CCNA is a "big" certification?? The CCNA is about as easily acquired as any other of the (imo, worthless) certifications out there.

How do you think having a certification accounts for real world application of that knowledge? Have you not heard of the term "paper MCSE"? The reason the MCSE lost almost ALL clout was because of all the monkies who went out to get certified.

The people who are gainfully employed in IT are experienced, not someone who was flipping burgers a year before they decided they could "learn computers" by getting their MCSE/CCNA.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: Bangsailio
along with a degree, is there a point to a CCNA or MSCD (sp)? A+ ?


what is good to get rather... than to waste money on the useless ones. i guess the overall story

I am seriously considering going for either an .NET & C# MSCD certification or a WebSphere one. Certifications are very useful if you do not have much industry experience. Now, certification upgrades are truly useless unless you you are competing with co-workers for a position or if your employer specifically considers it a requirement - in which case, they usually train you and pay for the exams as well. Certifications certainly do NOT guarantee a job. However, my manager did tell me that out of the dozens upon dozens of resumes he received for the position I am currently working in, he discarded any that did not have a certification. So, I would say you need some kind of certification to go on your resume - even if it is not an exact match for the position that you might be applying for.

 

[DCFife]

I figure certifications can't be a bad thing. I don't have any and I got very, VERY lucky getting my job. I was originally hired as a Help Desk Analyst back in September and I have already been promoted to Systems Administrator and bumped up almost $20K a year...and I have no formal experience with computers! I think I'm somewhere between "lucky bastard" and "luckiest bastard". Even with that, I'm still working on my MCSE right now and I want to start on the MCSD after that (I've always liked programming).

Dave

 

[StageLeft]

I am seriously considering going for either an .NET & C# MSCD certification or a WebSphere one. Certifications are very useful if you do not have much industry experience. Now, certification upgrades are truly useless unless you you are competing with co-workers for a position or if your employer specifically considers it a requirement - in which case, they usually train you and pay for the exams as well. Certifications certainly do NOT guarantee a job. However, my manager did tell me that out of the dozens upon dozens of resumes he received for the position I am currently working in, he discarded any that did not have a certification. So, I would say you need some kind of certification to go on your resume - even if it is not an exact match for the position that you might be applying for.

And that's why I got one. In this market you need any edge you can get.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: dakels
YES! Big difference in not only on paper (for job hunting) but on the job knowledge.
The big certifications (like CCNA, MCSE) are a well respected by companies as proof of at least some functional knowledge in your field. These certifications are not easy and usually require not only book knowledge of the given subject, but also real world application of that knowledge.

I have to cut this short so in summary: Certs = better salary, and more practical knowledge to help you on the job.

You sound like a salesman from Smart Certify Direct. You think the CCNA is a "big" certification?? The CCNA is about as easily acquired as any other of the (imo, worthless) certifications out there.

How do you think having a certification accounts for real world application of that knowledge? Have you not heard of the term "paper MCSE"? The reason the MCSE lost almost ALL clout was because of all the monkies who went out to get certified.

The people who are gainfully employed in IT are experienced, not someone who was flipping burgers a year before they decided they could "learn computers" by getting their MCSE/CCNA.

HR gets two resumes. Each with 4 years IT experience. 1 has a cert the other does not. Who will have the much better chance of landing an interview? ( Especially if the resume count increases)

 

[dowxp]

what are the average costs of those tests and is it possible to self study? i've seen courses costing alot. the last thing i'd do is to pay people to teach me computers.. =o

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

They make your breath smell better.

 

[lowtech1]

Cert are useless, unless you are going to get a raise or required to have them by your employer. It might look good to have certs under your belt on your first job, but volunteering & a few co-ops terms look much better on a resume.

The time and money that spend on them certs are much better spend on volunteering or taking some public speaking & business courses so you know how to sell yourself at job interviews, promotion reviews & business meetings.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: dakels
YES! Big difference in not only on paper (for job hunting) but on the job knowledge.
The big certifications (like CCNA, MCSE) are a well respected by companies as proof of at least some functional knowledge in your field. These certifications are not easy and usually require not only book knowledge of the given subject, but also real world application of that knowledge.

I have to cut this short so in summary: Certs = better salary, and more practical knowledge to help you on the job.

You sound like a salesman from Smart Certify Direct. You think the CCNA is a "big" certification?? The CCNA is about as easily acquired as any other of the (imo, worthless) certifications out there.

How do you think having a certification accounts for real world application of that knowledge? Have you not heard of the term "paper MCSE"? The reason the MCSE lost almost ALL clout was because of all the monkies who went out to get certified.

The people who are gainfully employed in IT are experienced, not someone who was flipping burgers a year before they decided they could "learn computers" by getting their MCSE/CCNA.

HR gets two resumes. Each with 4 years IT experience. 1 has a cert the other does not. Who will have the much better chance of landing an interview? ( Especially if the resume count increases)

That depends entirely on the experience. Of course, I've never submitted a single resume to HR. If you've done quality work in the past, people will acknowledge you, and you get an interview w/o even submitting a resume.

So, I guess my statement was a bit myopic. What I should've said is that experience > certification. I'm not referring to a year as a tier-1 helpdesk employee, I mean enterprise-level experience.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: lowtech
Cert are useless, unless you are going to get a raise or required to have them by your employer. It might look good to have certs under your belt on your first job, but volunteering & a few co-ops terms look much better on a resume.

The time and money that spend on them certs are much better spend on volunteering or taking some public speaking & business courses so you know how to sell yourself at job interviews, promotion reviews & business meetings.

I couldn't agree more.

The time is takes to assimilate the completely worthless information from certifications could be spent actually learning something usefull. When I took my MCSD tests, I did so only because my company needed another MCP in order for us to quality as an MCSP. The information on those tests were only partly based on experience, but instead, mostly on simply memorizing all the trivialities of development. I could have studied an exam, memorized it, and passed the test without any experience whatsoever.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: Bangsailio
what are the average costs of those tests and is it possible to self study? i've seen courses costing alot. the last thing i'd do is to pay people to teach me computers.. =o

Last I checked, the .NET courses cost about $2000 for a 5-day course! The exams cost $125 each. You can also get practice test s/w. I too would prepare on my own for the tests...easier if you've got friends willing to help every now and then...

In case you are interested, some links for the .NET certifications that I am looking at...

http://www.microsoft.com/TrainCert/mcp/sixsteps.asp

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/requirementsdotnet.asp">http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/requirementsdotnet.asp
</a>

http://www.selftestsoftware.com/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=102

 

[Ameesh]

i don't think so, IMO a degree shows that your fairly knowledgeable (if it comes from a decent school). If your gonna do tech support or IT stuff then certs will probably help you, if your not i wouldn't waste my time or my money. those things can get prety expensive.

 

[athithi]

Cert are useless, unless you are going to get a raise or required to have them by your employer.

They also help if you want to switch to a different platform after several years of experience in single or limited development environment.

 

[dakels]

descartes: I never said go get some jackass cert without any previous education or experience. I agree about certs becoming too common and easy in the last few years but it still is very beneficial. I am proof positive that job experience counts. For the last 10 years I have been an IT admin or similar until recently I switched to mainly prepress and design. I have never recieved any higher education nor do I have any certs. I may have the job but guess what? IT WAS HARD AS HELL getting those interviews without paperwork. It is also used against me in salary reviews. I also consult alot purely based on reputation. I have been told by countless headhunters, HR managers, and dept managers that without the prior personal recommendations, I wouldn't have even gotten the interviews. My friend is also the CEO of a 1000+ staff IT headhunting service in the NYC area. He tells me all certified techs, obviously get favoring over non cert techs with similar education and experience.

and I wasn't trying to go into this but yes I totally feel there are way too many CRAP fly by night courses and certs out there now. When I hire someone I don't care at all about the papers, I judge it on job experience and targeted questions and discussions I have with the prospective employees.