Is there a point to building desktops for people anymore?

[VirtualLarry]

When they can just buy an Android tablet for $40 to browse the web?

Something I'm struggling with.

I try hard to figure out the best "value" builds, basic web-browsing computers for clients that don't have a lot of money.

But I'm questioning the overall wisdom of that, and desktop computers in general, for the computing landscape, given the capabilities of modern tablets and their lower price.

 

[VirtualLarry]

For an example, this is what I've been toying with.

ECS KBN-I/2100 AMD E1-2100 Dual Core processor Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813135364
$32.99 AR

Edit: Above is sold out. Consider this AIO board instead:

ECS NM70-I2(1.0) Intel Celeron 1037U 1.80GHz Intel NM70 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135350

case, 350W PSU, keyboard, mouse, speakers
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=CA-I136USB#
$39.98 shipped


Team Elite Plus 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model TPD34G1333C901
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820313423
$31.99

Add HDD or SSD to suit.

Kingston SSDNow V300 Series SV300S37A/240G 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820721108

Edit: And then there is THIS, for around $130.
http://media.bestofmicro.com/6/0/417528/original/ecs-mini-lake.jpg

 

[DominionSeraph]

Well, if there's need for a monitor/keyboard, something like a Chromebook is going to be hard to beat.

 

[Charlie98]

It depends on their intended use. I like setting at a desk even when I'm cruising the web... I'll always have a desktop, I have no interest in a tablet of any sort. I'm not even that much of a laptop guy anymore, when I can use my iPhone for all basic functions when I'm away.

But if you want to set out on the patio, slurp your morning coffee and flip through the latest fashions at JCPenney or update FB, a tablet is pretty hard to beat.

As far as a SFF, there are inherent limitations on something like what you listed... lack of storage, still need a monitor/keyboard/mouse, typical slow CPU.

 

[Cerb]

When they can just buy an Android tablet for $40 to browse the web?

Browse the web on a $40 tablet, and then come back.

I try hard to figure out the best "value" builds, basic web-browsing computers for clients that don't have a lot of money.

Used/refurb/off-lease business PCs with 2GB+ RAM, Vista, or [preferably] 7. Thinkpads, Lattitudes, Probooks, Optiplexes, Thinkcentres, etc.. It's been a long time since it was worth building such computers, and business PCs have pretty good endurance.

But I'm questioning the overall wisdom of that, and desktop computers in general, for the computing landscape, given the capabilities of modern tablets and their lower price.

A phone or tablet fast enough to handle non-mobile web browsing reasonably well cost $150+ used, typically, and $200+ new, though there are a few loss leaders/break even units, now, that might be up the task. The fastest phones and tablets are just now eclipsing ca. 2008 Atoms. If you need anything like a PC experience, you need a PC. Celeron-powered Chromebooks, however, hold a middle ground. Several of them can have real OSes reloaded on them, and thus become, "real PCs," on top of having enough single-threaded CPU power to handle heavy web sites with the stock OS .

As the web gets more and more strenuous on CPUs, they are staying more and more behind. They're good devices, but they are still far from replacing a, "real computer."

 

[Torn Mind]

$40 Android tablets are going to suck balls because the CPU in them is likely "stock ARM" and thus slow, slow, slow. Even the Nexus 7 2012 I have is not that speed, and its a Tegra 4. Open up a bunch of apps, and lag starts becoming noticeable, probably because the RAM is stuffed quite a bit.

In addition, certain desktop tasks are made more time-consuming, such as typing, while a tablet far more comfortable in using apps in which you "read" or can interact with your fingers intuitively, such as using GasGuru or reading an Ebook.

And Android is not a flawless OS. Risk of it being soft-bricked is a real concern, since it means one has to be somewhat handy with working with fastboot and flashing images.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Samsung will have a $99 tablet soon that will probably be great for a grandma who just needs gmail and youtube.

For people who need more, the $300 atom tablets with Windows 8.1 are going to be hard to compete against for versatility -- works as a tablet, e-reader but can still be attached to a full keyboard and monitor for using the included MS Word.

When you need to pay $200 for a legal copy of Windows and MS Office Home/Student, your builds are going to cost more.

 

[Cerb]

And Android is not a flawless OS. Risk of it being soft-bricked is a real concern, since it means one has to be somewhat handy with working with fastboot and flashing images.

Yup. I thought mine was a goner, freezing and rebooting a lot, only a couple weeks after I got it. I found someone else's backup uploaded to help yet another person downgrade back to stock, tried it (what did I have to lose?), and it's been fine since. Can you imagine regular users trying that?

 

[Torn Mind]

Yup. I thought mine was a goner, freezing and rebooting a lot, only a couple weeks after I got it. I found someone else's backup uploaded to help yet another person downgrade back to stock, tried it (what did I have to lose?), and it's been fine since. Can you imagine regular users trying that?

My experience was within the first cumulative hours of use. After dabbling around but never seriously using it(that was for an hour or two, added up from different days), I finally decided to start using the Nexus 7 "seriously". The first thing I did was do a system update to Android 4.3. Lo and behold, the update was borked and I had to service it, wasting a whole afternoon. I was lucky fastboot worked because I didn't enable developer's mode. I couldn't even boot into the "repair" mode, that update soft-bricked the system so badly...

 

[BrightCandle]

When I first got my Nexus 7 I tried to use it for a lot of different activities. I soon found that its not that quick for web browsing, the processor gets bogged down sometimes on decoding video and it mostly only really works well enough for native applications for email and some local video watching.

The day is certainly coming when it will be a secondary surfacing device, and for things like taking recipes into the kitchen and other around the house stuff its obvious better than the desktop, but it feels like its 100x slower than the desktop. One day the speed will be there and then the interface will be the issue, for now it seems its not just the interface holding it back, its also the hugely power constrained CPU and GPU. I personally don't think its a great experience, its adequate but its nothing like the speed of a desktop.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

When I first got my Nexus 7 I tried to use it for a lot of different activities. I soon found that its not that quick for web browsing, the processor gets bogged down sometimes on decoding video and it mostly only really works well enough for native applications for email and some local video watching.

The day is certainly coming when it will be a secondary surfacing device, and for things like taking recipes into the kitchen and other around the house stuff its obvious better than the desktop, but it feels like its 100x slower than the desktop. One day the speed will be there and then the interface will be the issue, for now it seems its not just the interface holding it back, its also the hugely power constrained CPU and GPU. I personally don't think its a great experience, its adequate but its nothing like the speed of a desktop.

Mine is rather quick on web browsing. Doesn't shutter or feel slow.
This was both on when I was on 4.3 and 4.4

 

[piasabird]

I just want a box I can hook up to my TV. Where you going to store all your music and video files?

 

[piasabird]

I think there is a place for both a Desktop and a tablet as well as hybrid type computers like the NUC and video extenders etc. I could see small computers with everything on one small motherboard using a wireless mouse/keyboard.

 

[Termie]

...

For people who need more, the $300 atom tablets with Windows 8.1 are going to be hard to compete against for versatility -- works as a tablet, e-reader but can still be attached to a full keyboard and monitor for using the included MS Word.

....

This.

I wasn't remotely interested in a tablet until the Asus T100 came along. I caught one at a serious discount - now you'd be lucky to find one in stock anywhere in the U.S., and forget about paying retail, it's going to be higher than that. It's not perfect, but it's honestly the device everyone probably wants even if they don't know it yet.

Once Windows 9 rolls out and fixes all the interface problems in 8, I think Android/iOS will finally yield to Microsoft, because these 2-in-1 devices with Atom processors are powerful enough and versatile enough for 95% of people to use as their only tablet/PC/laptop.

As for the OP's question, I don't know of any $40 Android tablets, but I don't even think a $200 Android tablet meets the needs of most people. Most people will still need a computer.

 

[DigDog]

Tablets would ideally replace the need for laptops - do your mobile work on the tablet, then export to desktop and do the heavy duty work on that. At least thats how i envision it .. i do tell many people who ask me "can you build a notenoughmoney computer for me?" to just get a nice tablet ..

 

[BurnItDwn]

Desktops are not for people who want low end garbage. Desktops are for high end/nice machines.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Desktops are not for people who want low end garbage. Desktops are for high end/nice machines.

Elitist much? There are two threads on this sub-forum, build threads, about a $300 desktop build and a $500 desktop build. Clearly, not everyone sees desktops as only the tools of the elite.

 

[Morbus]

If what you want is a PC, then it's hard to be a desktop.

Unless you NEED mobility, in which case is a moot point.

As usual, it's all about what you want. There's really nothing more comfortable than sitting a computer desk on a comfy chair, I find. Tablets will kill your arms AND your neck, laptops will kill your wrists if you're on a desk or they'll kill your balls if it's on your lap (unless you're a girl, in which case boobs, really), and phones are too small for many things that you'll probably want to do (like browse the web).

I don't think the vast majority of people has ever needed a PC, though. 15 years ago, owning a computer was for the geek, and then came the boom. And then came the tablet boom, and all the non-geeks are starting to leave the desktop, because, guess what, it was never their machine to begin with. Good riddance, you despicable mainstreamers!

Elitist much? There are two threads on this sub-forum, build threads, about a $300 desktop build and a $500 desktop build. Clearly, not everyone sees desktops as only the tools of the elite.

Well, if you're gonna spend 300$ on a desktop, chances are you'll have a machine that can do way more than any tablet or smartphone, so, yeah, for the elite.

 

[Torn Mind]

If what you want is a PC, then it's hard to be a desktop.

Unless you NEED mobility, in which case is a moot point.

As usual, it's all about what you want. There's really nothing more comfortable than sitting a computer desk on a comfy chair, I find. Tablets will kill your arms AND your neck, laptops will kill your wrists if you're on a desk or they'll kill your balls if it's on your lap (unless you're a girl, in which case boobs, really), and phones are too small for many things that you'll probably want to do (like browse the web).

I don't think the vast majority of people has ever needed a PC, though. 15 years ago, owning a computer was for the geek, and then came the boom. And then came the tablet boom, and all the non-geeks are starting to leave the desktop, because, guess what, it was never their machine to begin with. Good riddance, you despicable mainstreamers!




Well, if you're gonna spend 300$ on a desktop, chances are you'll have a machine that can do way more than any tablet or smartphone, so, yeah, for the elite.

Office and web browser still remains in the domain of PCs (or Macs).

7 inch tablets don't kill arms. 10 inchers do, and maybe some 8 inchers.

Laptops burn your thighs, not your balls, unless you have some strange fetish with the warm bottom of the laptop.

Geeks would never have been able to support PCs on their own. It has always been enterprise/professionals and the affluent with deep pockets to afford the higher end, especially back in the 90s. And who's to say they still aren't using a desktop.

 

[sf101]

I Tend to sell NUC for buisnesses that just needs browers/office / simply type stuff and bolt it to the back of the monitor with a BT mouse/kbd

Clean no cables really aside from 2 powers and customers find it nice and quick actually.

for people who want more performance and buisness I've found selling a Nicer laptop to them has become a better option over a desktop something like a MSI GT70 reason being if they have to do work at home or on the road they just take the unit with them.

and depending on database stuff Everything else now a days can sit on a server or NAS unit.

Things sure are changing though but as far as a 40$ android device hmmm not to sure id go that route Due to limited options / compatibility with much of the things my customers want to do and the general learning curve involved for them.

If i was going with android id want something semi powerful also I've owned older android smartphones and setup E-reader tablets with slightly underwhelming Performance and it becomes a chore last thing i want my customers doing is feeling like they bought a piece of junk from me Id rather they spend more and be fully happy.

 

[gammaray]

i love my PC, and i would never get rid of it for a tablet or a laptop. why watch youtube video on a tablet, or play video games, or store huge amount of music files etc.

besides, everything feels better sitting comfortably in a chair, looking at a big screen and doing business stuff or writing email or trading stocks.

 

[cubby1223]

To the original question about building desktops, no, there is no point. I've picked up about 15 off-lease refurbs over the past year, Core 2 Duo, Windows 7, 2gb ram, $135. Graphic performance sucks, I have to turn off Aero for Win7 to run smooth, but even when I talk to people, nobody cares about the transparent window borders, but they love the cheap price. If I need graphic performance, or dual monitor, a GT210 is like $25.

ECS KBN-I/2100 AMD E1-2100 Dual Core processor Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813135364
$32.99 AR

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/65?vs=328

The E1-2100 is even significantly slower than the slowest E-series cpu available in the above comparison. It's far too underpowered, it's meant for ultra-low power usage situations, not for regular home use. Add to that ECS isn't exactly known for reliability, nor the reliability of mail-in-rebates, I'm not seeing an upside to using that product in a desktop build.

 

[Blain]

Is there a point to building desktops for people anymore?

Not unless they need or want something beyond a normal office box.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Elitist much? There are two threads on this sub-forum, build threads, about a $300 desktop build and a $500 desktop build. Clearly, not everyone sees desktops as only the tools of the elite.

I'm not meaning to be an elitist. I am simply saying that there's no point in going with full size desktop PC unless you are putting something higher end than is typically found in laptops.

Why spend on a nice case and power supply when you only need a tiny little case and a 100W power supply...

I didn't mean to say that you have to spend $1000. I meant that a $300 build is generally not worth the time/energy since an all in one or laptop in the $300 price range will generally be "as good."

The benefit of going with a desktop vs a laptop is that you have more more room and generally more power. Those benefits really are only benefits if you make use of them.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'm not meaning to be an elitist. I am simply saying that there's no point in going with full size desktop PC unless you are putting something higher end than is typically found in laptops.

Why spend on a nice case and power supply when you only need a tiny little case and a 100W power supply...

I didn't mean to say that you have to spend $1000. I meant that a $300 build is generally not worth the time/energy since an all in one or laptop in the $300 price range will generally be "as good."

The benefit of going with a desktop vs a laptop is that you have more more room and generally more power. Those benefits really are only benefits if you make use of them.

A desktop Celeron(2 cores, 2.6 GHz) is on par with or outclasses many notebook i3s and lower. Kabini single cores or E-350s don't stand a chance. A desktop Pentium outclasses most dual-core i5s and i7s for only $20-$50 more than a Celeron. Desktop i3s outclasses everything but the highest end notebook quad cores. The only loss is weaker graphics performance, but they still can play 1080p video.

Desktop systems also allow more RAM at a cheaper price. Users who open up a bunch of tabs are going to feel the constraints of the measly 2 GB found on many laptops. Family computers that use Fast User Switching and leave apps open will also feel constrained even at 4GB.

The extra power is useful, since it accelerates installation of programs and gives room to breathe for background processes such as MsMpEng.exe.

$300 is a bit low for either desktops and laptops. There are not many options at that price, but rather at $350. The laptops found at $300 are either good refurbs or new ones with crappy build quality on clearance sales. Meanwhile, an Inspiron 660s can be had for $350, complete with a Pentium G2030.