Is there a correlation between education/intellect and musical tastes?

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
No. I have met plenty of smart people that like rap.

Yeah, I know one...maybe two of them...as well

Looks like the entire theory has been debunked!

 

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
No. I have met plenty of smart people that like rap.

I knew that would be commented on, so here's a clarification.

A lot of people 'think' other people are 'smart'. When I say 'smart' I mean truly exceptional intellect or cognitive functions. Like over 140IQ's. Actually over that, and not supposed to be that from some ridiculous internet test. If the people we're talking about are actually IN the Triple Nines or Prometheus, or if they're acknowledged nationally or globally for exceptional thinking (not accomplishments, as the two are unrelated), THEN they qualify by my definitions. And before anyone argues that they know plenty of people like that, remember we are talking about finite numbers here. There are only 200,000 on the planet who qualify at these levels and since only a small portion of the population is ever tested MOST of those able to participate never will. There are only 6000 on the planet at or above 168IQ. We're talking about a very VERY small number of people.

By educated I don't mean a BA in basketweaving, nor even an MBA. I'm talking about TRUE broad education. Either multiple degrees or broad study within their college careers. This usually (but not always) rules out ANYONE who went to college purely to get a degree specifically to get the job they wanted. Career degrees are almost never liberally educating. People who go to college for 2 years having no idea what they want to do, change majors, get more than one degree, get degrees purely for education, get doctorates, or get masters degrees other than business industry related would all qualify. Even many business degree holders would qualify as long as they're not typical American corporate capitalists there ONLY for job mobility.

iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

and yes, these were tests given by the schools for assessment for the gifted program, of which me and my children were admitted. wifey barely missed, but then again she is from mississippi

as far as music, i dont see a correlation between intellect and music tastes. ive know "dumb" people who were well versed in all types of music, and "smart" people who liked britney spears. its more a function of personality and exposure than anything else.

 

[CrazyPerson]

there is no "why"
if there is, it would not be correlation

 

[Gurck]

Actually I'd guess intellect would correlate with openmindedness.

Originally posted by: shimsham
iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

Most people are really stupid.

 

[eigen]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Actually I'd guess intellect would correlate with openmindedness.

Originally posted by: shimsham
iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

Most people are really stupid.

Yeah smart people are usually a little to humble in their abilities.I mean for christ sake the average american cant do basic calculus or read a story critically.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Gurck
Actually I'd guess intellect would correlate with openmindedness.

Originally posted by: shimsham
iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

Most people are really stupid.

Yeah smart people are usually a little to humble in their abilities.I mean for christ sake the average american cant do basic calculus or read a story critically.

Hmm I took calculus twice, in HS and college, and if you asked me to integrate cos(x^7)^3 I wouldn't be able to do it. I better start practicing my calculus weekly so that I'm not an idiot!

 

[Landroval]

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
No. I have met plenty of smart people that like rap.

I knew that would be commented on, so here's a clarification.

A lot of people 'think' other people are 'smart'. When I say 'smart' I mean truly exceptional intellect or cognitive functions. Like over 140IQ's. Actually over that, and not supposed to be that from some ridiculous internet test. If the people we're talking about are actually IN the Triple Nines or Prometheus, or if they're acknowledged nationally or globally for exceptional thinking (not accomplishments, as the two are unrelated), THEN they qualify by my definitions. And before anyone argues that they know plenty of people like that, remember we are talking about finite numbers here. There are only 200,000 on the planet who qualify at these levels and since only a small portion of the population is ever tested MOST of those able to participate never will. There are only 6000 on the planet at or above 168IQ. We're talking about a very VERY small number of people.

By educated I don't mean a BA in basketweaving, nor even an MBA. I'm talking about TRUE broad education. Either multiple degrees or broad study within their college careers. This usually (but not always) rules out ANYONE who went to college purely to get a degree specifically to get the job they wanted. Career degrees are almost never liberally educating. People who go to college for 2 years having no idea what they want to do, change majors, get more than one degree, get degrees purely for education, get doctorates, or get masters degrees other than business industry related would all qualify. Even many business degree holders would qualify as long as they're not typical American corporate capitalists there ONLY for job mobility.

iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

and yes, these were tests given by the schools for assessment for the gifted program, of which me and my children were admitted. wifey barely missed, but then again she is from mississippi

as far as music, i dont see a correlation between intellect and music tastes. ive know "dumb" people who were well versed in all types of music, and "smart" people who liked britney spears. its more a function of personality and exposure than anything else.

The standard deviation is 15 or 16, depending on the standard test you took. The number of people 3 SD is far, far greater than 4. By the time you get to 5, it's tiny. But I agree that IQ is not the end-all of "intelligence".

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
No. I have met plenty of smart people that like rap.

I knew that would be commented on, so here's a clarification.

A lot of people 'think' other people are 'smart'. When I say 'smart' I mean truly exceptional intellect or cognitive functions. Like over 140IQ's. Actually over that, and not supposed to be that from some ridiculous internet test. If the people we're talking about are actually IN the Triple Nines or Prometheus, or if they're acknowledged nationally or globally for exceptional thinking (not accomplishments, as the two are unrelated), THEN they qualify by my definitions. And before anyone argues that they know plenty of people like that, remember we are talking about finite numbers here. There are only 200,000 on the planet who qualify at these levels and since only a small portion of the population is ever tested MOST of those able to participate never will. There are only 6000 on the planet at or above 168IQ. We're talking about a very VERY small number of people.

By educated I don't mean a BA in basketweaving, nor even an MBA. I'm talking about TRUE broad education. Either multiple degrees or broad study within their college careers. This usually (but not always) rules out ANYONE who went to college purely to get a degree specifically to get the job they wanted. Career degrees are almost never liberally educating. People who go to college for 2 years having no idea what they want to do, change majors, get more than one degree, get degrees purely for education, get doctorates, or get masters degrees other than business industry related would all qualify. Even many business degree holders would qualify as long as they're not typical American corporate capitalists there ONLY for job mobility.

iq doesnt mean shat. me and my 2 children all scored in the 140s, and my wife in the 130s. i would hardly call us in the top 200K, unless most people are really stupid.

and yes, these were tests given by the schools for assessment for the gifted program, of which me and my children were admitted. wifey barely missed, but then again she is from mississippi

as far as music, i dont see a correlation between intellect and music tastes. ive know "dumb" people who were well versed in all types of music, and "smart" people who liked britney spears. its more a function of personality and exposure than anything else.

About one out of 50 people have an IQ of 130 or above. That's why I specified 140 as a bottom number for actually noticeably smart. The 200,000 I was talking about is up in the 99.997 percentile societies like Promethius. Triple Nines is a 99.9 groups, so about 1 in a thousand. Most people are at the top of the bell, from 95-125. It falls off sharply on both sides of the curve.

You bring up 'music smart', which is of particular interest to me. Studying Garnder multiple intelligences seem to indicate musical potential seperate from other intelligences. I wonder if this is purely dealing with the creation of music, or also pertains to the enjoyment/understanding of music.

Any Gardner experts care to comment on this?

 

[Deeko]

I am the antithesis to your argument.

I'm 20 years old, doing well at a private college on scholarship(computer science major), graduated HS with a 4.0 and have a measured IQ of 146.

I listen to rap, trance, house, and eurodance. I absolutely despise heavy metal, all forms of 'hippy' music, and most forms of rock.

edit: for clarifiaction I'm not trying to talk myself up or anything. I'm just saying I'm an 'educated, intellectual person' and I don't fit his 'mold.'

 

[Descartes]

LOL, are people in this thread serious?

I'm 25 years old, I went to Harvard, I graduated with honors, and I have a measured IQ of 180. I'm a millionairre, and I have a Ferrari as my daily driver.

Oh, and I listen to rap.

[edit]Oh, I forgot to say that despite my absurdly high IQ I don't think it means anything. I just like to tell people so we can demonstrate this fact.[/edit]

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I am the antithesis to your argument.

I'm 20 years old, doing well at a private college on scholarship(computer science major), graduated HS with a 4.0 and have a measured IQ of 146.

I listen to rap, trance, house, and eurodance. I absolutely despise heavy metal, all forms of 'hippy' music, and most forms of rock.

edit: for clarifiaction I'm not trying to talk myself up or anything. I'm just saying I'm an 'educated, intellectual person' and I don't fit his 'mold.'

I don't think he meant majoring in computer science as being intellectual.

That said, yeah there is a correlation, but it's not because of the music. It's elitism. Same reason an "intellectual" person would like abstract art whereas a computer science major, or an ordinary person probably would not.

 

[Deeko]

His clarification of majors was pretty poor though. He said that many business majors would count as intellectuals, whereas someone in a science major does not. That's just foolishness, does he have any idea what the undergrad business program at most schools is? Its basically a joke. For my elective credits I'm taking things that have nothing to do with math/science, its not like my education track is narrow.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I am the antithesis to your argument.

I'm 20 years old, doing well at a private college on scholarship(computer science major), graduated HS with a 4.0 and have a measured IQ of 146.

I listen to rap, trance, house, and eurodance. I absolutely despise heavy metal, all forms of 'hippy' music, and most forms of rock.

edit: for clarifiaction I'm not trying to talk myself up or anything. I'm just saying I'm an 'educated, intellectual person' and I don't fit his 'mold.'

You think you are smart, how about all those who figured out how to market that stuff to you intelligent White Kids. That is pure genuis!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Deeko
His clarification of majors was pretty poor though. He said that many business majors would count as intellectuals, whereas someone in a science major does not. That's just foolishness, does he have any idea what the undergrad business program at most schools is? Its basically a joke. For my elective credits I'm taking things that have nothing to do with math/science, its not like my education track is narrow.

Then you're the exception to those I've met. Most business majors take the requirements for business, and then take either easy outs or semi-business related coursework. Very little deep psych, soc, anth, phil, hist, phys, chem etc other than the requirements. I don't recall saying science majors aren't intellectuals, i said career majors generally aren't. Fact is, someone getting a degree in network administration is probably not there for a broad education...however, a large percentage of computer people are geeks and therefore do have broader subject interests. I guess in that case it sort of balances out.

I guess I shouldn't generalize by subject, but maybe by intent. If someone is getting a degree purely to further their careers, they're not as likely to receive a broad education as someone getting the degree with other motives. In my experience that is, everything is variable.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: CrazyPerson
there is no "why"
if there is, it would not be correlation

Huh?

 

[MustangSVT]

:roll:
biased observation.


social background makes most impact imo.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Deeko
His clarification of majors was pretty poor though. He said that many business majors would count as intellectuals, whereas someone in a science major does not. That's just foolishness, does he have any idea what the undergrad business program at most schools is? Its basically a joke. For my elective credits I'm taking things that have nothing to do with math/science, its not like my education track is narrow.

Then you're the exception to those I've met. Most business majors take the requirements for business, and then take either easy outs or semi-business related coursework. Very little deep psych, soc, anth, phil, hist, phys, chem etc other than the requirements. I don't recall saying science majors aren't intellectuals, i said career majors generally aren't. Fact is, someone getting a degree in network administration is probably not there for a broad education...however, a large percentage of computer people are geeks and therefore do have broader subject interests. I guess in that case it sort of balances out.

I guess I shouldn't generalize by subject, but maybe by intent. If someone is getting a degree purely to further their careers, they're not as likely to receive a broad education as someone getting the degree with other motives. In my experience that is, everything is variable.

Someone who is getting a degree for a reason other than a career, IE wasting time, is more likely to need believe that he is an intellectual. It's cognitive dissonance. If the degree isn't worth it, the person MAKES it worth it. I'd bet that the biggest wannabe intellectuals are philosophy majors who don't plan to go to law school, anthropology majors who will not be anthropologists/archaeologists, studio art majors, and English majors who can't write well enough to be published.
Someone who needs to feel like an intellectual is of course going to listen to classical music.

Just my analysis based on what I learned from the one anthropology class I took.

Edit: If anyone's a real intellectual, it must be me! I'm majoring in geography, minoring in geology and biology, and have taken a buttload of unnecessary classes like classics and calculus.

 

[PrinceofWands]

nm

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: brigden
I think musical taste has more to do with social position. Popular kids are more likely to listen to mainstream commercial music regardless of intelligence. Bright kids, typically socially outcast and less narrow-minded, are more likely to be exposed to a wider array of musical styles and far less likely to dismiss a genre like classical or jazz.

I completely agree with this. It fits for myself, anyway.

I agree as well. I think it's more of a matter of being exposed to things and being open-minded enough to try them out. I'm not sure if I'm very high up the social ladder, but I tend to feel disconnected from people, even though I 'm friends with many. Anyway, the internet is a great thing for anybody willing to try out new stuff.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Deeko
His clarification of majors was pretty poor though. He said that many business majors would count as intellectuals, whereas someone in a science major does not. That's just foolishness, does he have any idea what the undergrad business program at most schools is? Its basically a joke. For my elective credits I'm taking things that have nothing to do with math/science, its not like my education track is narrow.

Then you're the exception to those I've met. Most business majors take the requirements for business, and then take either easy outs or semi-business related coursework. Very little deep psych, soc, anth, phil, hist, phys, chem etc other than the requirements. I don't recall saying science majors aren't intellectuals, i said career majors generally aren't. Fact is, someone getting a degree in network administration is probably not there for a broad education...however, a large percentage of computer people are geeks and therefore do have broader subject interests. I guess in that case it sort of balances out.

I guess I shouldn't generalize by subject, but maybe by intent. If someone is getting a degree purely to further their careers, they're not as likely to receive a broad education as someone getting the degree with other motives. In my experience that is, everything is variable.

Someone who is getting a degree for a reason other than a career, IE wasting time, is more likely to need believe that he is an intellectual. It's cognitive dissonance. If the degree isn't worth it, the person MAKES it worth it. I'd bet that the biggest wannabe intellectuals are philosophy majors who don't plan to go to law school, anthropology majors who will not be anthropologists/archaeologists, studio art majors, and English majors who can't write
well enough to be published.
Someone who needs to feel like an intellectual is of course going to listen to classical music.

Just my analysis based on what I learned from the one anthropology class I took.

Edit: If anyone's a real intellectual, it must be me! I'm majoring in geography and minoring in geology and biology.

Very possible, and that's the kind of thoughts I was looking for.

However your initial sentece is heinously biased. It presumes that education is for career, and that's a pitiful modern American attitude, in my opinion one of the major ways that America is destroying the world. Education is about thinking and learning, jobs are about jobs. The two are not inherently related. You are most definately a victim of our Prussianized education system.

Now, mind you, my statement is the exact same (only opposite) as yours. But since there is no validity to either argument outside of ourselves, we can discount both.

 

[amcdonald]

OP, you sound like a pompous ass.

I'm sure there's a pattern that can be mapped between IQ/education and what style of music an individual prefers...
But I don't think it's wise to form an opinion on someone when they say the listen to country/rap/blues/classical

I happen to listen to and enjoy every type of music listed here.. they all have a time and a place for me..
Maybe it's because I'm a musician and I listen to and appreciate music in a different way than most..

Strictly for debunking purposes, I'm really smart and I love rap and country (at times)... also I consider new age to be a psuedo-intellectual style at best.
I don't consider heavy metal to be intellectual, since mostly the lyrics involve basic emotion in less than eloquent lyrics, and the music is more simple than complicated most of the time.
That being said I love metal/hardcore.
I'm not a fan of opera, but I love most classical music.

 

[quakefiend420]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Deeko
I am the antithesis to your argument.

I'm 20 years old, doing well at a private college on scholarship(computer science major), graduated HS with a 4.0 and have a measured IQ of 146.

I listen to rap, trance, house, and eurodance. I absolutely despise heavy metal, all forms of 'hippy' music, and most forms of rock.

edit: for clarifiaction I'm not trying to talk myself up or anything. I'm just saying I'm an 'educated, intellectual person' and I don't fit his 'mold.'

You think you are smart, how about all those who figured out how to market that stuff to you intelligent White Kids. That is pure genuis!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
OP, you sound like a pompous ass.

I'm sure there's a pattern that can be mapped between IQ/education and what style of music an individual prefers...
But I don't think it's wise to form an opinion on someone when they say the listen to country/rap/blues/classical

I happen to listen to and enjoy every type of music listed here.. they all have a time and a place for me..
Maybe it's because I'm a musician and I listen to and appreciate music in a different way than most..

Strictly for debunking purposes, I'm really smart and I love rap and country (at times)... also I consider new age to be a psuedo-intellectual style at best.
I don't consider heavy metal to be intellectual, since mostly the lyrics involve basic emotion in less than eloquent lyrics, and the music is more simple than complicated most of the time.
That being said I love metal/hardcore.
I'm not a fan of opera, but I love most classical music.

I'm not trying to use it as a judgement tool, only a curiosity. I really have noticed what appears to be a correlation along the lines I mentioned and I'd like to understand it better. If I don't understand what is, I can never work towards what should be.

I listen to everything as well, just not very much country, rap, hip-hop (and very little pop). I personally don't enjoy it. I'm not a musician by any stretch, but when I do dink around it's purely classical. I don't know why, just the way I am. When I go to society meetings it's 99% classical and opera as background music. I smile at the media-fed stererotyping of Japanese business leaders as country karioke fanatics. Why? Why are these things true or presumed? These are the observations that drive me to figure things out. I can't help it, just the way I'm built.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I listen to oldies of almost any sort (50s-70s). Now what would that make me?

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Deeko
His clarification of majors was pretty poor though. He said that many business majors would count as intellectuals, whereas someone in a science major does not. That's just foolishness, does he have any idea what the undergrad business program at most schools is? Its basically a joke. For my elective credits I'm taking things that have nothing to do with math/science, its not like my education track is narrow.

Then you're the exception to those I've met. Most business majors take the requirements for business, and then take either easy outs or semi-business related coursework. Very little deep psych, soc, anth, phil, hist, phys, chem etc other than the requirements. I don't recall saying science majors aren't intellectuals, i said career majors generally aren't. Fact is, someone getting a degree in network administration is probably not there for a broad education...however, a large percentage of computer people are geeks and therefore do have broader subject interests. I guess in that case it sort of balances out.

I guess I shouldn't generalize by subject, but maybe by intent. If someone is getting a degree purely to further their careers, they're not as likely to receive a broad education as someone getting the degree with other motives. In my experience that is, everything is variable.

Someone who is getting a degree for a reason other than a career, IE wasting time, is more likely to need believe that he is an intellectual. It's cognitive dissonance. If the degree isn't worth it, the person MAKES it worth it. I'd bet that the biggest wannabe intellectuals are philosophy majors who don't plan to go to law school, anthropology majors who will not be anthropologists/archaeologists, studio art majors, and English majors who can't write
well enough to be published.
Someone who needs to feel like an intellectual is of course going to listen to classical music.

Just my analysis based on what I learned from the one anthropology class I took.

Edit: If anyone's a real intellectual, it must be me! I'm majoring in geography and minoring in geology and biology.

Very possible, and that's the kind of thoughts I was looking for.

However your initial sentece is heinously biased. It presumes that education is for career, and that's a pitiful modern American attitude, in my opinion one of the major ways that America is destroying the world. Education is about thinking and learning, jobs are about jobs. The two are not inherently related. You are most definately a victim of our Prussianized education system.

Now, mind you, my statement is the exact same (only opposite) as yours. But since there is no validity to either argument outside of ourselves, we can discount both.

Education and career are not inherently related? I wouldn't go so far as to say that, at least practically. Education for the soul purpose of edification would be ideal, but given the structure of our economy and society, the two are clearly related. The farthest I'm willing to go is to say that there's more to education than career preparation.

I think the biggest problem in the education most people get is that they tend to think only of themselves ("selfish," albeit subconciously). People tend to have rather limited worldviews and do not realize the grander yet subtler ways that their choices affect the rest of the world.

We seem to be getting to the point of being so highly specialized that we're trapped in our own bubbles. In many ways, education here has become almost vocational. We learn what we need to learn to get a job and not much else. The biggest problem seems to be that schools don't teach people to think for themselves often enough. Education is not merely the recitation of facts, but I bet that's what most people get out of school.

I'm a 2nd Mechanical Engineering major at UC Berkeley. I don't really have much room to take classes for my own personal fulfillment, but I try to read when I can. Anything and everything (as time allows). Literature and politics and religion and music. I went to a high school that opened doors other high schools would glance over. It was up to the student to walk through them, but they were there if the student was willing. I could be totally wrong about all of this, but they're the observations I've made over the course of the last few years.