Gt403cyl
Member
- Jun 12, 2018
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Fair enough, is there a specific reason the R5 is a no go?
I respect your choice I just like to hear why so I can take it into consideration.
Fair enough, is there a specific reason the R5 is a no go?
I respect your choice I just like to hear why so I can take it into consideration.
It sounds like he's looking for the sort of performance an @5GHz 8350K or 8600K can provide.
- Feb 22, 2001
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My assumption ( and certainly what my son "hears" ) is that AMD's do not match Intel for gaming.
My son won't be running Cinebench benchmarks or doing video editing. He's a gamer.
Maybe at my desired price point this isn't the case (that Intel is faster than AMD at gaming ) and the $200 R5 will provide more FPS than a $200 I5.
I'm willing to be swayed towards AMD if so.
- Feb 22, 2001
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The 8600k is sorta getting out of where I want to spend (knowing that I'll also have to provide a good HSF.)
I'm not familiar with the 8350k - is that something I should be considering?
- Jun 10, 2004
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Do not consider anything less than 4c/8t for gaming, especially if it includes MMOs or high player count multiplayer (like Battlefield 1). The 8350K is 4c/4t and will tap out in the same situations as his 2500K and lead to annoying "choppiness" in game. Especially if additional software like Discord or Teamspeak is involved.
What games does your son play? That would give us a better idea of the difference at 1080p 144Hz (in general, at 1080p low/competitive, you will want the 6-core 8000-series Intel CPUs - at least i5). The difference isn't much on average, but in some games it can be 10%+ at 1080p low since there is the first-mover/decade+ dominance advantage in terms of software optimization for Intel vs AMD.
Games he plays:
Counterstrike
PUBG
Fortnite
Overwatch
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-an-i5-2500k-at-4-2ghz.2548081/#post-39458271
- Feb 22, 2001
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That's my feeling - the CPU+GPU are almost perfectly matched. Upgrading either will make the other starved.
He has a 250GB SSD that Windows + key games are on, and a 1TB spinner for other games.
Gt403cyl
Member
- Jun 12, 2018
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Those are all CPU heavy games, Intels performance vs ryzen is mainly based on games running up to 4 threads optimally, that said games like PUBG have been getting better optimization running with more threads, CS to my knowledge is still a couple threads, Fortnite and Overwatch I honestly couldn’t say....
Having more threads available in my opinion would be more of a long term benefit than the fewer for the extra 6-8fps now.
Again just my opinion
8350K is like the i5 CPUs of yesteryear, 4c4t. It's not something I'd usually recommend(i5-8400 is much better overall at the same price point) but this sort of situation where the only thing that matters is maxing out frames for competitve gaming while keeping costs down it does start to make (a little) sense again.
But only if you overclock it, as otherwise it doesn't really have an advantage over the 8400 nor the 2500k. As you pointed out that also means getting a decent cooler. With this option it would also be possible to slot in an 8600K or 8700K later on.
Perhaps other options should be looked at such as a second hand 6600K/6700K or 7600K/7700K that can be overclocked to 4.5~4.8GHz. I don't know how the market/pricing is over there though, and it doesn't leave any room for significant future upgrades, although the i7 variants should at least have some longevity in them.
It's a bit of a tough one considering how fast things are changing in the CPU market these days, contrary to the previous 5-6 years.
- Jun 10, 2004
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If he is playing low/competitive graphics settings the GPU will not be the bottleneck, even with a new CPU. PUBG in particular is notorious as a game where CPU is the bottleneck.
All the games listed would benefit from a CPU upgrade, particularly to one with 6+ cores.
Both Ryzen 2000 series (e.g. 2600X, 2600) and Intel i5-8000 series (e.g. i5-8600K, i5-8400) would be a noticeable upgrade, particularly in PUBG. Computerbase.de did benchmarks at 1080p in April 2018 (max settings... but overall trend should be similar at low):
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-04...watch/2/#diagramm-counter-strike-go-1920-1080
Results show that you really can't go wrong with any of the new hexa-core CPUs from Intel or AMD:
Verdict: Buy whatever you can get the best bundle deal on for CPU+mobo.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
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PUBG and Fortnight, faster on 2600X than 8700K (at stock, I assume)? Wow, nice. AMD has come a long way, baby!
- Feb 22, 2001
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Gt403cyl
Member
- Jun 12, 2018
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I need some clarification...
It says “frametimes in FPS” for the 99th percentile.....
Is that frametimes or FPS because they are 2 different metrics.....
- Feb 22, 2001
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I read 99th percentile as this: "99% of the time, I can expect FPS greater than or equal to this number."
Maybe others have a different way of defining it, but that's how I think about it. (But I also incorrectly think of it as the realistic low end I'm going to see. Which isn't _totally_ incorrect, but sorta.)
Gt403cyl
Member
- Jun 12, 2018
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I know what 99th percentile is supposed to mean, but when they say “frametimes in FPS” it’s misleading...
99th is taking out the anomalies creating a steady average.
1% lows are the absolute minimums that are rare but still occur.
Frametimes are the time it takes from the start to buffer and change.
Fps is the number of swaps in 1 second.
So how do they state frametimes in fps?
They are different metrics....
Not really, they are reciprocals.
Kinda like saying the Wavetime for US AC is 60Hz. It isn't technically correct but it still gives the information, you must do a little math (1/x) to get the real period of 1/60th of a second in the case of AC wall current.
Same goes for frame time, just 1/x the given number and you are there. But then the smaller numbers are better...
So I made one of my posts while the list of games was being posted. In light of the more recent information regarding CPU intensive games I'd like to amend my opinion. I still think a hard cap at $200 for the CPU is not going to worth the trouble, however if you could spend just a bit more. I mean the CPU is just a small part of the budget, right? You need RAM, MB and perhaps M$ Windows as well...
Maybe call it Christmas/Birthday/Graduation/etc. but spend just a hair more...
Maybe call it Christmas/Birthday/Graduation/etc. but spend just a hair more...
Gt403cyl
Member
- Jun 12, 2018
- 126
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Yeah I mean I understand how to get frame-times but why not just put that on the chart... rather than make the reader do the work...
Also for lack of a better expression, readers who are less educated on the topic would easily be confused by the mixed terms.
Either way I would still stand by my recommendation of 2600(x) and x470 board unless you can do the BIOS update on a b350 board.
- Feb 22, 2001
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It's always "spend just a little more" isn't it?
In this case, you may be right.
One thing I really wish reviewers could do is put some older CPU's in their charts... for example, the i2500k. It was such a popular CPU... and I'm not the first one in the last year who's wanted to upgrade to a newer CPU who's wanted it in the mix of benches. (I do see it in some benches some times, but not often enough.)
UsandThem
Elite Member
- May 4, 2000
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It's always "spend just a little more" isn't it?
In this case, you may be right.
One thing I really wish reviewers could do is put some older CPU's in their charts... for example, the i2500k. It was such a popular CPU... and I'm not the first one in the last year who's wanted to upgrade to a newer CPU who's wanted it in the mix of benches. (I do see it in some benches some times, but not often enough.)
They did until the Sky Lake launch in 2015. At that point, most reviewers declared this was the CPU that 2500k/2700k owners that had been holding out should finally upgrade to.
The only thing you can do is go back to a Sky Lake CPU review like the 6700k, and see the performance difference between it and the 2500k. Then you have to see the performance difference between the 6700k and whatever CPU you are considering. It should give you a very good idea of the overall performance difference.
UsandThem
Elite Member
- May 4, 2000
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If you don't want to do what I suggested above, you can always use one of the "versus" sites which are decent, and it should give you a somewhat ballpark figure. For example, the 2500k vs Ryzen 2600X:
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2600X/619vs3956
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2600X/619vs3956
Agreed.
Did you follow the link? I suspect there is a bit of a language barrier which could be contributing to the issue.
Can the kid contribute to this endeavor?
Story time...
One of the best Christmas presents I ever received was a boat. The boat cost $800 which was far and above any normal present so I was presented with a list of terms. First of all I had to come up with $500 in cash and electronics to cover my end. Secondly even the $300 remaining balance would be too much of a gift so it counted for my birthday and Christmas both. This worked out well because I could not afford the full $800 but the $500 in cash and electronics was easy to manage. I was thrilled.
Maybe you could do something similar. Have the kid chip in $100 or something. Let him look at the benchmarks and see which CPU he wants and what it would be worth to him.
BTW the old system is pretty awesome. I had a 2500k myself, and I'd still have it if I hadn't got married. That 2500k system is solid enough that it is going to take a higher end new system to make a noticeable difference IMHO.
Story time...
One of the best Christmas presents I ever received was a boat. The boat cost $800 which was far and above any normal present so I was presented with a list of terms. First of all I had to come up with $500 in cash and electronics to cover my end. Secondly even the $300 remaining balance would be too much of a gift so it counted for my birthday and Christmas both. This worked out well because I could not afford the full $800 but the $500 in cash and electronics was easy to manage. I was thrilled.
Maybe you could do something similar. Have the kid chip in $100 or something. Let him look at the benchmarks and see which CPU he wants and what it would be worth to him.
BTW the old system is pretty awesome. I had a 2500k myself, and I'd still have it if I hadn't got married. That 2500k system is solid enough that it is going to take a higher end new system to make a noticeable difference IMHO.
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