Is The Worst Over? Most Economists Say Yes

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Text

At the beginning of 2009, many Americans feared an economic depression was at hand. In January alone, U.S. employers slashed nearly three-quarters of a million jobs.

Now, as the year's second half begins, most economists are saying the worst of the recession is over, and that slow growth will begin in the fall.

"The hemorrhaging has peaked," said Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist for the Economic Outlook Group, a forecasting firm. "We're on the other side of the recession now."

Baumohl believes the recession, which began in December 2007, may already have ended, and a feeble recovery begun.

Hopes for a faster recovery cooled Thursday when the Labor Department said another 467,000 jobs disappeared in June. In total, 14.7 million people are now unemployed in the United States ? or 9.5 percent of the work force.

"The heavy loss of jobs in June is a warning that the road to recovery will be bumpy," Nigel Gault, chief U.S. economist for IHS Global Insight, a forecasting firm, said in a written analysis. "We expect job losses to continue throughout 2009, and the unemployment rate to peak at 10.3 percent in the first half of 2010."

Still, Gault sees the second half of 2009 turning brighter. Despite the gloomy June news, the jobs report "doesn't yet indicate that we have gone off the track" for a recovery, he wrote.

One of the reasons economists believe the year's second half will show progress is the slight improvement in sales of existing homes. Last week, the National Association of Realtors said that in May, pending sales of existing homes ticked up for the fourth consecutive month. Another good sign: New data on manufacturing showed activity is stabilizing after a long, hard slide.

A few economists are still hoping for vigorous growth in 2010 because they see pent-up demand growing for cars and houses. Others have grown more pessimistic, fearing that continuing job losses soon will cause very high rates of credit card defaults, or trigger another spike in home foreclosures.

Until U.S. companies start creating larger numbers of jobs, those big risks will linger. Heidi Shierholz, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning research group, is among those who fear that the labor outlook will continue to be an enormous drag on the economy.

"Unemployed workers are getting stuck in unemployment for long periods," she said in a written analysis. "In June, 4.4 million people, 2.8 percent of the labor force, had been unemployed for at least six months, surpassing the record high of 2.6 percent set in the early 1980s."

But optimists like Baumohl say economic historians will look back on this summer as a turning point for the better. He notes that average weekly overtime at factories was up to 2.8 hours in June, suggesting that while companies aren't yet ready to hire, they are getting healthier.

"Manufacturing overtime hours is one of the best leading indicators to monitor if you want to understand where the economy stands in the business cycle," he said.
Could the economy already be well on its way to recovery before the 2010 election cycle begins? It certainly looks that way. Despite the doom-and-gloomers predicting that Obama's policies would mean Armageddon for our nation, job losses are slowing, sales of homes are up, and manufacturing hours are up. And we're only a little over 5 months into Obama's term.

Great news for our country. Bad news for the GOP, who won't be able to use the economy as political ammunition next year.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
We really dont know. If the recovery starts this Fall how are democrats going to utilize the 787 billion in stimulus spent to their advantage if the recovery comes before the majority of the money is spent?
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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Uh yeah that's great, it's most definitely not over yet and will not be over until at least 2012...Option ARM and AltA crisis will be approx. as rough as the subprime mess. We're halfway through this, there are no green shoots of recovery just yellow weeds.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Uh yeah that's great, it's most definitely not over yet
The worst is over.

and will not be over until at least 2012
We'll be well on our way to recovery by then, and Obama will be well on his way to getting re-elected.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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The economy will not recover simply because the United States no longer has the basis for having an economy that's able to support a large and thriving middle class. This is the result of global labor arbitrage and population explosion. Applying basic principles of supply-and-demand relative to labor and capital tells us that the American standard of living must decrease until it is closer to third world standards of living (unless the U.S. imposes trade barriers and ends mass immigration).

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I think the second quarter earning reports that are due starting this week until the end of July should help provide a better picture of where we're all at.
 

Praxis1452

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,197
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

At the beginning of 2009, many Americans feared an economic depression was at hand. In January alone, U.S. employers slashed nearly three-quarters of a million jobs.

Now, as the year's second half begins, most economists are saying the worst of the recession is over, and that slow growth will begin in the fall.

"The hemorrhaging has peaked," said Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist for the Economic Outlook Group, a forecasting firm. "We're on the other side of the recession now."

Baumohl believes the recession, which began in December 2007, may already have ended, and a feeble recovery begun.

Hopes for a faster recovery cooled Thursday when the Labor Department said another 467,000 jobs disappeared in June. In total, 14.7 million people are now unemployed in the United States ? or 9.5 percent of the work force.

"The heavy loss of jobs in June is a warning that the road to recovery will be bumpy," Nigel Gault, chief U.S. economist for IHS Global Insight, a forecasting firm, said in a written analysis. "We expect job losses to continue throughout 2009, and the unemployment rate to peak at 10.3 percent in the first half of 2010."

Still, Gault sees the second half of 2009 turning brighter. Despite the gloomy June news, the jobs report "doesn't yet indicate that we have gone off the track" for a recovery, he wrote.

One of the reasons economists believe the year's second half will show progress is the slight improvement in sales of existing homes. Last week, the National Association of Realtors said that in May, pending sales of existing homes ticked up for the fourth consecutive month. Another good sign: New data on manufacturing showed activity is stabilizing after a long, hard slide.

A few economists are still hoping for vigorous growth in 2010 because they see pent-up demand growing for cars and houses. Others have grown more pessimistic, fearing that continuing job losses soon will cause very high rates of credit card defaults, or trigger another spike in home foreclosures.

Until U.S. companies start creating larger numbers of jobs, those big risks will linger. Heidi Shierholz, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning research group, is among those who fear that the labor outlook will continue to be an enormous drag on the economy.

"Unemployed workers are getting stuck in unemployment for long periods," she said in a written analysis. "In June, 4.4 million people, 2.8 percent of the labor force, had been unemployed for at least six months, surpassing the record high of 2.6 percent set in the early 1980s."

But optimists like Baumohl say economic historians will look back on this summer as a turning point for the better. He notes that average weekly overtime at factories was up to 2.8 hours in June, suggesting that while companies aren't yet ready to hire, they are getting healthier.

"Manufacturing overtime hours is one of the best leading indicators to monitor if you want to understand where the economy stands in the business cycle," he said.
Could the economy already be well on its way to recovery before the 2010 election cycle begins? It certainly looks that way. Despite the doom-and-gloomers predicting that Obama's policies would mean Armageddon for our nation, job losses are slowing, sales of homes are up, and manufacturing hours are up. And we're only a little over 5 months into Obama's term.

Great news for our country. Bad news for the GOP, who won't be able to use the economy as political ammunition next year.

And these are the same economists who saw this bubble coming? Oh wait...

I'd rather trust someone like peter Schiff who did see it, and did predict it.

link
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Politics aside, I don't think the economy can get better until Americans pay down our consumer debt. Unemployment is still rising, people are reluctant to spend money, etc.

Anyone would be foolish to hope for any quick "recovery". Any sort of recovery will be slow and our economy won't grow nearly as fast as it did for the past 10-20 years. It's just how things are going to become.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
10 years of projected 1 trillion dollar+ deficits? The worst is far from over.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Uh yeah that's great, it's most definitely not over yet and will not be over until at least 2012...Option ARM and AltA crisis will be approx. as rough as the subprime mess. We're halfway through this, there are no green shoots of recovery just yellow weeds.

I agree.....only time will tell but I am not as quick to pronounce "mission accomplished".
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Great news - when the economy falls into a gutter, it does hit bottom!

~ 10% unemployment for the next year or so. Several million foreclosures to go. Debt not seen since WW2.

Mission accomplished!
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
I think the only dependable idea about this economy is that any projection is not pessimistic enough.

I do think that the extraordinary action of the gov't has staved off a depression (and should be commended, but won't be) but, there is still a lot of damage to work thru, and possibly to come. Nothing will come back fast and its silly to think so. GOP ideas clearly would have made their mess worse, but Dems should be very wary of hubris and ego. I think we are likely headed towards a malaise ala Japan's lost decade, but worse. Not likely anything anyone will be able to do about it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,631
9,911
136
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Could the economy already be well on its way to recovery before the 2010 election cycle begins? It certainly looks that way. Despite the doom-and-gloomers predicting that Obama's policies would mean Armageddon for our nation, job losses are slowing, sales of homes are up, and manufacturing hours are up. And we're only a little over 5 months into Obama's term.

Great news for our country. Bad news for the GOP, who won't be able to use the economy as political ammunition next year.

First, hah, more NPR links. Still have those right wing terrorists hiding under their bed?

Second, I would have gladly supported removing Bush from office over what he did last fall. Democrats aren't just to blame for the failed response to the economic crisis. Democrat-lites are also squarely to blame.

Third, it's good to be upbeat, it's good to root for positives, but this government bubble will burst. When it does nothing is going to stop a complete collapse. You're going to pray to god that it only becomes another depression. The bigger they are.....

This government bubble is nothing to celebrate, it's a reason to buy canned foods.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: BoberFett
LOL @ OP

X2

We're well & thoroughly hosed until 2011

The ALT A, and Option ARMS are fixing to hit, as well as the commercial real estate.

Hold onto your tuckus folks.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

The economy will not recover simply because the United States no longer has the basis for having an economy that's able to support a large and thriving middle class. This is the result of global labor arbitrage and population explosion. Applying basic principles of supply-and-demand relative to labor and capital tells us that the American standard of living must decrease until it is closer to third world standards of living (unless the U.S. imposes trade barriers and ends mass immigration).

I think you're over-simplifying it. My company buys motherboards made in China, but we employ about 20 engineers. The rest are salesman, project managers, HR folk; and we have a sizable portion of assemblers stateside as well.

Manufacturing is not a "basis for a thriving middle class" anymore. Engineering is. We can get China to build everything for us, what we need is more ideas worth selling and engineers that can make it happen.

We also need to win the IP battle with other countries. If they can just replicate our designs and entertainment at no charge then we are toast. I am opposed to copyright law stateside; but worldwide we and all other post-industrialized nations will not survive without.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: alchemize
Great news - when the economy falls into a gutter, it does hit bottom!

~ 10% unemployment for the next year or so. Several million foreclosures to go. Debt not seen since WW2.

Mission accomplished!

I'm going to forecast 15%. You can bet me on that.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: BoberFett
LOL @ OP

X2

We're well & thoroughly hosed until 2011

The ALT A, and Option ARMS are fixing to hit, as well as the commercial real estate.

Hold onto your tuckus folks.

Doctorhousingbubble.com if you folks haven't read, this is a great blog.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/ is another wonderful source. I can't read all of his posts, I usually just check the headlines for things that catch my eye.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Maybe the worst is over from the original problems but with Cap and Trade and mandatory health care coming our way, we will be digging entirely new holes.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Uh yeah that's great, it's most definitely not over yet
The worst is over.

.

The worst was over before the stimulus package even got passed. IF the recession is over, what should be done with remaining 88% of the unspent stimulus moneys.

And and paul krugman is wanting a second round of stimulus money...
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: alchemize
Great news - when the economy falls into a gutter, it does hit bottom!

~ 10% unemployment for the next year or so. Several million foreclosures to go. Debt not seen since WW2.

Mission accomplished!

wasn't Obama himself predicting +10% unemployment a couple weeks ago?