Is the US's view of China too positive?

[Infohawk]

On the cover of Newsweek is a special report on the Chinese Century. It has a cute asian actress and pictures of the great wall of china and some ultra modern city. Nothing about poor peasants or pollution. I think newsweek is a garbage magazine and I'm guessing a large part of the cover design had to do with using sex to sell... but still. I also imagine the interior of the magazine covers some more negative aspects of the country but let's face it covers often encapsulate a mesage: China is sexy and cool.

POINT #1: Is this anyway to portray a TOTALITARIAN country? Am I supposed to be attracted to China? I see this a lot of places in our culture right now. A lot of coverage seems to be impressed by China. I just don't see why when it is totalitarian. As free citizens in a democracy I don't see why we would have much respect for that sort of a country no matter how rich they are getting and no matter how many broadband users they have now.

POINT #2: I think our economic embrace strategy has its limits. It seems to me its mainly succeeded in turning China from a stalinist / maoist country into a fascist country. Same old totalitarianism with a different economic model strikes me as fascism. This is especially scary when you have Chinese mobs who are so quick to profess their nationalist favors recently (not saying Chinese don't have some legit complaints against Japan).

China seems to want respect in the world based on its size and economic might alone. I say the free world should not give respect based on these indices but on how developped their democracy is. (Hence I think we should support India far more than we currently do).

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
(Hence I think we should support India far more than we currently do).

:thumbsup:

If possible, I'd rather see us distance ourselves from some more traditional allies and support another up and coming country.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Infohawk
(Hence I think we should support India far more than we currently do).

:thumbsup:

If possible, I'd rather see us distance ourselves from some more traditional allies and support another up and coming country.

Its so you don't feel so bad about everything being stamped "MADE IN CHINA" ...

 

[zephyrprime]

There is a sort of respect that China commands nowadays and it does generate a lot of attraction too. But I don't think it's because people think China is a positive model to the world. I think the respect is due to one thing: size. Size is impressive to americans. In fact, this point is exactly the point made in Newsweek. Maybe you'd know that if you had actually read the article so you could make some informed comments on it.

But putting that aside, I agree with you two points.

Size by itself isn't a virtue but size often begets power. Power commands respect. Along with that respect can be either love or hatred.

 

[ntdz]

I agree India should be viewed more positively than China. I don't think China is NEARLY as bad as other totalitarianism governments, but they still are, and are still basically just a very large third world country.

 

[LtPage1]

yes. we cannot allow ourselves, no matter how cozy we get economically, to forget that china is still an extremely oppressive government.

 

[Stunt]

While i do support India more as a hub for outsourcing rather than China, I would seriously make the arguement that it will be far easier for the Chinese to revolt against their leadership when they have a taste of freedom, wealth, americanism.
If the US was not involved in this country, I could see it as very isolationist, like a massive North Korea.
I almost rather them the way they are than a threat.
But that's all to interpretation...

 

[Chinadefender]

True.

The world has known what "freedom, wealth, americanism" is in Iraq.

UN and many people in many countries were against that war, so what?

Ideologic icons cannot replace facts.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Chinadefender
True.

The world has known what "freedom, wealth, americanism" is in Iraq.

UN and many people in many countries were against that war, so what?

Ideologic icons cannot replace facts.

He's referring to the way our country is governed and our culture, not a war.

 

[Stunt]

Talk about trigger-happy
and you are the "China Defender"?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

A lot of the respect China is commanding today from the US is because of its move towards privitazation of business, it's embrace of capitalism, and the move away from the hard-core socialist and communist practices of the past. It's still not perfect in China and there are still a lot of poor and relatively oppressed people, but they are improving and improvement on the scale of China takes time.

Calling China "totalitarian" is a bit of a misnomer as well. While politics there ultimately has a totalitarian structure, practically all politics is done by committee. If you want totalitarian, see NK. THAT'S totalitarian in the most unkind use of the word. Calling China totalitarian now is kind of like pointing at an ice cube and calling it a glacier.

 

[Proletariat]

*Sigh* China is a VERY dangerous country.

It is a country with appreciates assimilation over diversity.

Silence over free thought.

They have crushed Tibet and Xinjiang, and this was very recently. Its a shame that some in our company would seek to put their meager advances in propping up their own wealth in front of their human rights violations.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

From the pov of someone who is sitting in China at this moment and who speaks with Chinese people regularly about their government and country, and who reads the English versions of a couple Chinese papers every day, their politics are not all that terrbile. The biggest problem with China is social reform, not their human rights violations. While living conditions for many (in sheer numbers) Chinese have improved immensely the vast number of Chinese are still unbelievably poor and downtrodded and abused by their own. The Chinese mafia is far worse than their government.

 

[0roo0roo]

the chinese mafia isn't the one pointing missles and constantly threatening the free democratic peoples of taiwan. its easy to see them as harmless when they stock the shelves of walmart with cheap goods. or maybe just convenient.

 

[Thump553]

I pretty much agree with Infohawk on this point. As what many here would characterize as a card-carrying liberal, you may be surprised that I always check for the Made in China label, and if at all possible, buy an alternative.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Let's make sure we don't confuse the hatred of the Chinese government with the people of China. The Chinese people are proud, caring folk with a wonderful culture that deserve our respect.

 

[aswedc]

Poor peasants and pollution? You mean like in democratic India, Mexico, and Brazil, who are quite possibly worse off than China?

Face it, the Chinese government is doing a fine job of bringing the country into the developed world - the results of their economic policy benefits millions of people every day. A democracy would set back this process by years, if it ever got back on track at all. When it comes down to it, I think people would rather have their new jobs and wealth than political freedom. Besides, the government is opening up when it can without risking stability - the way it should be.

Don't hate China because it's different. Or is it because you're afraid it'll overshadow the US?

 

[Cruise51]

Originally posted by: aswedc
Poor peasants and pollution? You mean like in democratic India, Mexico, and Brazil, who are quite possibly worse off than China?

Face it, the Chinese government is doing a fine job of bringing the country into the developed world - the results of their economic policy benefits millions of people every day. A democracy would set back this process by years, if it ever got back on track at all. When it comes down to it, I think people would rather have their new jobs and wealth than political freedom. Besides, the government is opening up when it can without risking stability - the way it should be.

Don't hate China because it's different. Or is it because you're afraid it'll overshadow the US?

Sounds about right.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Infohawk
(Hence I think we should support India far more than we currently do).

:thumbsup:

If possible, I'd rather see us distance ourselves from some more traditional allies and support another up and coming country.

Its so you don't feel so bad about everything being stamped "MADE IN CHINA" ...

It already is.

 

[GTKeeper]

Well, we can't ignore China because they will be the driver in the next 10-20 years in Asia. You cannot just ingore 1.3 billion people much like we cannot ignore the 1 billion in India.

Everything in the world turns around money and economics.

 

[ahurtt]

They are just softening us up and pre-conditioning us for when the Chinese world takeover happens so it will be easier for us all to adapt. If they can brainwash us all in to thinking China = sexy then maybe we won't mind it so much when Chinese have all our jobs and dominate our culture so that maybe some of us will come along for the ride willingly or maybe even without seeing the situation as it unfolds. They're taking the "better get used to this because its coming whether you like it or not so you better learn to like it" approach.

 

[kage69]

TLC, since you're over there I have to ask: have the Chinese you are in contact with espoused any opinions on the 3 Gorges Dam project? With Beijing locking-up outspoken critics of the project, I'll understand if it hasn't come up in conversation.

Just curious...

 

[irwincur]

I don't think China is NEARLY as bad as other totalitarianism governments, but they still are, and are still basically just a very large third world country.

Sorry, China is not a fluffy kitten. They have some serious issues that they will need to work out over there.

I am actually still waiting for the coming revolution. It is a guarantee that it will occur. There is no way that you can give your people gilded gifts of money, culture, and prosperity when in all reality it is not theirs. At some point, the people will open their eyes and see that most of what China is as the moment is a sham.

Hell a good example are their modern cities. Shanghai has over 100 highrise buildings going up at any given time. Right now, occupancy is under 20%. Why keep building? Because they can, and it makes the city look modern and powerful. Like I said, gilded. Not a real metropolis as the majority of the people still live in slums that would make the Western poor shudder.

 

[0roo0roo]

and look at north korea. its all because of china wanting to keep it as a nice buffer against democracy. so crazy kim gets nukes, proliferates weapons, and starves at the very least hundreds of thousands to death...etc.. all with chinese support.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Chinadefender
True.

The world has known what "freedom, wealth, americanism" is in Iraq.

UN and many people in many countries were against that war, so what?

Ideologic icons cannot replace facts.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about so don't be afraid to clarify. It sounds like you're attacking the US. That's fine, but the existence of US problems don't make China's problems go away.